"A Police Killing That Seemed to Go Against Type"

Hard telling how this one will play out. Looks like the deceased was definitely not fully innocent. Looks like the LEO may (and may not) have been justified.

What we do know is this.

The cops had the right house.

The deceased was armed.

He pointed the gun at the cops.

There's apparently possible question as to how much time they gave him to put the gun down. (I'll assume that it probably was enough, just the article invoked possible doubt.

If that's the story, and the shooter gave him enough time, well, I feel bad for the cop, but, hey, he did his job. I can't knock him.
 
If he really did point his gun at the cop or was beginning to raise it... Good shoot.

Though if it were a good shoot the cop would not have been going "What have I done what have I done".

Conflicting testimony need more info.
 
needs some investigation: police claim he met them outside and armed Spokesman claims he was in the kitchen with his girl friend and police entered the house.

something doesn't pass the smell test.
 
The remorse could be from doing the right thing, even if he didn't want to kill the guy.

You know, not all cops are bad, not all are dumb. Just a few overzealous thugs that give the good ones a bad reputation.

And, if it was this LEO's first shoot, that response could be normal.

Poor guy has to carry it for life.
 
The 2 stories are definitely conflicting. One said the suspect was outside with a gun, the second said he was inside with no mention of a gun. "Freeze freeze pop pop" makes it seem he was shot pretty fast. Was he hit in the chest or the back?
 
Another American who was protected and served right into his grave by over zealous cops who use any excuse to "lawfully" shoot other Americans. And the phone call on the domestic disturbance was called in by a third party from Florida no less. Oh, and the cops were on his property because the gate was open? If the gate was closed, would the police have done a breach with an armored vehicle?

Used to be, back when my grandfather was a detective, law abiding citizens respected the police because the Police protected and served. Now all you do is shoot people in their homes, shoot their dogs, and shoot the crap out of neighborhoods when engaging a couple of Islamists with a few pressure cooker bombs and a Glock.

You want to kill people? You want to shoot up whole neighborhoods? Join the ****ing army. The Police is not the military, America is not the sandbox, and I don't care how dangerous you say your job is... You ****ing made the choice of professions. Every day we're getting closer to Germany's 3rd Reich... Seems we're already there with the damn Gestapo tactics on the populace.
 
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I don't feel like I know enough to form an opinion about this. But the part that terrifies me is the possibility of someone calling the cops and saying someone is brandishing a firearm or something of that sort, when that person is about a a thousand ****ing miles away. I've made it very clear to my girlfriend, "Don't you EVER tell anyone that I own firearms without talking to me first!" The last thing I need is for Billies 3rd cousin in california who heard it from a coworker who found out from a friend on facebook through my girlfriends post on someone elses wall that I own a firearm, and then they call the authorities with some cockamamie fabrication that I have a gun and I'm a threat to someone. And then get shot to death in my bed at 3AM by the police who got a tipoff, and raided my house and thought I was reaching for a firearm, when in fact I'm reaching for my light switch. All guns unloaded and locked in my safe.

"We have determined it was a clean shoot, as officer ****wad believed the assailant was reaching for a firearm and was in imminent danger. He will return to the department after his 2 weeks of paid leave."

Thanks Billies 3rd cousin.


Not to say thats what happened here but, that just plagues me.
 
Another American who was protected and served right into his grave by over zealous cops who use any excuse to "lawfully" shoot other Americans. And the phone call on the domestic disturbance was called in by a third party from Florida no less. Oh, and the cops were on his property because the gate was open? If the gate was closed, would the police have done a breach with an armored vehicle?

Used to be, back when my grandfather was a detective, law abiding citizens respected the police because the Police protected and served. Now all you do is shoot people in their homes, shoot their dogs, and shoot the crap out of neighborhoods when engaging a couple of Islamists with a few pressure cooker bombs and a Glock.

You want to kill people? You want to shoot up whole neighborhoods? Join the ****ing army. The Police is not the military, America is not the sandbox, and I don't care how dangerous you say your job is... You ****ing made the choice of professions. Every day we're getting closer to Germany's 3rd Reich... Seems we're already there with the damn Gestapo tactics on the populace.

Here we go again with cop bashing. Seems like everyone on this thread had a sensible opinion about this matter without involving police state propaganda non-sense.
Police have always shot people in their homes, domestic violence disputes are (as any cop will tell you) some of the most dangerous calls to go on.
Don't see how we're getting closer to the 3rd Reich. Do you know what Germany and Eastern Europe was like when Hitler took power? Do you know any history at all? Do you think it was by chance that Hitler came to power? The issue is way more complex than one that can be viewed simply through a "police violence" or "police state" keyhole. Irrespective of the complexity of the aforementioned, and in addition to, the last time I checked, no gun control measures passed at the federal or state level here in MA even after Sandy Hook and the other very high profile shootings. Business as usual IMHO.

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I don't feel like I know enough to form an opinion about this. But the part that terrifies me is the possibility of someone calling the cops and saying someone is brandishing a firearm or something of that sort, when that person is about a a thousand ****ing miles away.

This actually is a very real concern. Do you know what the term "SWATTING" means?

 
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Here we go again with cop bashing. Seems like everyone on this thread had a sensible opinion about this matter without involving police state propaganda non-sense.

Police have always shot people in their homes, domestic violence disputes are (as any cop will tell you) some of the most dangerous calls to go on.

Don't see how we're getting closer, no gun control measures passed at the federal or state level here in MA even after Sandy Hook and the other very high profile shootings. Business as usual IMHO.

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This actually is a very real concern. Do you know what the term "SWATTING" means?

Yeah I have heard of that recently actually. I didn't know they coined that term for it though. I try telling my girlfriend how serious that scenario is, but she just can't wrap her head around it. She thinks there is no way the police would act so recklessly. Which only scares me more. "I've given you the evidence, please just trust me. I'm not spouting UNREASONABLE paranoia." I dunno. Sometimes she's just stubborn because the information is from me. But I digress...

Its only scares me more living in MA. I don't know what needs to happen to shift this, but it all weighs heavily on me.
 
"We have determined it was a clean shoot, as officer ****wad believed the assailant was reaching for a firearm and was in imminent danger. He will return to the department after his 2 weeks of paid leave."

Thanks Billies 3rd cousin.


Not to say thats what happened here but, that just plagues me.

Redacted because the libtards and statists will use it against me for "suitability" reasons...

Hows that for 1st amendment free speech protected under the constitution rights? Your right lcstyle, this isn't 3rd reich Germany, it's the soviet union...
 
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Yeah I have heard of that recently actually. I didn't know they coined that term for it though. I try telling my girlfriend how serious that scenario is, but she just can't wrap her head around it. She thinks there is no way the police would act so recklessly. Which only scares me more. "I've given you the evidence, please just trust me. I'm not spouting UNREASONABLE paranoia." I dunno. Sometimes she's just stubborn because the information is from me. But I digress...

Its only scares me more living in MA. I don't know what needs to happen to shift this, but it all weighs heavily on me.

This is actually a very real concern, I share your fears trust me sir. It is a vulnerability in the system: anyone calls reporting they see you with a gun and that puts you behind the 8 ball legally. No telling how cops would react.
If it's a simple call and it happens once it might not be a big issue. It does give people leverage against you if they know you own firearms. Then again falsifying a police report is a felony and the person that is lying can be charged for this. I tell my buddy all the time to make sure all his stuff is secured, that way there are no surprises.
 
Here we go again with cop bashing. Seems like everyone on this thread had a sensible opinion about this matter without involving police state propaganda non-sense.
Police have always shot people in their homes, domestic violence disputes are (as any cop will tell you) some of the most dangerous calls to go on.
Don't see how we're getting closer to the 3rd Reich. Do you know what Germany and Eastern Europe was like when Hitler took power? Do you know any history at all? Do you think it was by chance that Hitler came to power? The issue is way more complex than one that can be viewed simply through a "police violence" or "police state" keyhole. Irrespective of the complexity of the aforementioned, and in addition to, the last time I checked, no gun control measures passed at the federal or state level here in MA even after Sandy Hook and the other very high profile shootings. Business as usual IMHO.

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This actually is a very real concern. Do you know what the term "SWATTING" means?



I know plenty of history bud, especially as it relates to the rise of fascism in Germany. Considering you are an apologist for the misdeeds of law enforcement, the tool of the government in the repression of people's liberties, I'd say you don't know squat. How about you tell us ignorant cop bashes when, where and why SWAT was created. Maybe then you can describe how no knock warrants were served back in the 50's and 60's? At what point did it become common practice to approach a house in a supposed domestic dispute with guns drawn? Or were the police John Wayne with their quick draw techniques?
 
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This is actually a very real concern, I share your fears trust me sir. It is a vulnerability in the system: anyone calls reporting they see you with a gun and that puts you behind the 8 ball legally. No telling how cops would react.
If it's a simple call and it happens once it might not be a big issue. It does give people leverage against you if they know you own firearms. Then again falsifying a police report is a felony and the person that is lying can be charged for this. I tell my buddy all the time to make sure all his stuff is secured, that way there are no surprises.

Kind like all those falsified firearms license applications right? How many are falsified every year? How many are prosecuted? I mean, you have the paperwork right there...
 
Before you dismiss the comments on the Third Reich and German police state operations, you might want to do some checking, and know your history.

GCA '68? A blatant copy of the 193o's German gun law. Party in power in the late 30's in Germany? Nazis.

I've lived in Germany, about 8 years worth. It's very much a police state.

Want the kicker? The US is much worse, even so called "free states".
 
There is a lot of stuff going on. The cops are becoming more militarized and marginalized on the fringes of society. There are a lot of reasons for this. The Federal Government has pushed this agenda, first with the War on Drugs, and then the War on Terrorism. Joint Task Forces, Federal Grants for military equipment not necessary for most policing operations, and a broad based definition of "terrorism" (any crime can be defined as a terrorist act these days. DHS definitely wants a piece of the conventional law enforcement operations pie, too). Couple this with a general feeling of entitlement, legitimizing criminal justice studies as a legitimate academic discipline and the nepotism that prevails in the law enforcement community, and you have created and insular class of every bit as restrictive as the medieval guilds. Who do we have to blame? Mainly ourselves. If we look at the history of law enforcement, nobody wanted to be a cop, so it fell largely on immigrant populations at the turn of the last century, at least here in the east. Low status, low pay, crappy hours. Up until the 1970's the MSP actually lived in the barracks and a 70-80 hour work week was not uncommon. Public service unions came in and slowly but surely gained power. If many of you had lived just a generation ago, you would have been on the side of the cops against all those long haired hippies who spat on the flag, or remember the impact here in Boston of forced busing. Somewhere along the line, things changed and we have what we have. What used to be called "street justice" is now police brutality.

Now I don't know what happened in CT. I do know this, that in lots of training scenarios, as soon as the word "GUN" is shouted, police react, draw and fire. I'm thinking that might have happened here. Cop sees gun, yells "Gun" and then fires giving the victim no time to respond. It could be a training shortfall, I don't know and that doesn't make it a free pass, but ultimately people fight like they are trained and most police agencies don't spend a lot of time, effort or money training their officers. Most if not many cops view guns like cruisers, flashlights and pens, they are tools. In fact lots of cops don't like guns, and dread qualification day (qualification BTW should not be confused with training, although it frequently is). I'd like to say that many of you could shoot better under stress, but frankly after seeing a lot of you shoot at various NES Shoots over the past five years, I'd say many of you don't do any better than the cops. I know, you will say that's different, they are supposed to shoot better, well I can't refute that argument but reality is reality and we can deal with the way things are or the way they should be. We all know the way things should be.

Another distressing thing about this, is that a third party called from Florida. This again is an example of the do-gooder mentality that prevails in our society today, and the erroneous belief that the police are your friends. Just keep a low profile with the guns. You spouse, GF, BF parent or child can unwittingly be your own worst enemy. Wasn't there a guy in New Jersey who got jammed because his mother thought he might be injurious to himself, and he had just moved there with guns? She thought the police would help.

Here is a little mantra that you need to teach the closest people around you: "The police are not your friends"...plain and simple.

Now I don't know what is going to happen to that cop, whether he will be exonerated or indicted or whether he should be.

Another thing: being distraught after a shooting, even if it is a good shoot is not untypical. PTSD is a natural reaction in many people. Some of it is due to upbringing and values and part of it is do to the inherent personality types we all have. Somebody like the late Chris Kyle could shoot 100 people and not be too affected by it, but he is a warrior, and the simple truth, most of us are not. For a long time, I have divided the world into warriors and farmers. Warriors are natural fighters, farmers are the people who do the functions of society like business and agriculture and so forth. They will fight if cornered, maybe, if their interests are threatened just like any other primate, but it doesn't come naturally to them and they will either become less effective as they continue to engage in combat (it's no accident that most of the US Divisions that landed at DDay had no combat experience, that was intentional. The Army and later S.L.A. Marshal reckoned that the average effectiveness of an infantry soldier was about 4 months before a sense of self-preservation kicked in) Now I know that you are going to say that the cops aren't soldiers and you would be right, except armed conflict is armed conflict and shooting somebody is shooting somebody.

I know that not everyone will agree and some will say, oh he is pro-police. I will say no, I am not pro-police nor am I anti-police. I don't like what we are evolving into in this country, but the whole idea of a de facto militarized national police force is just one of many topics in a very troubled society, it may be at work in this case, or may be related to training, or it may be that the victim really tried to pull something off. Everyone wants a rush to judgement on this. Let's see what comes of it. I would like to hear more of the GF's account of the incident. I'm sure that she will have her bias, but she will also be able to give a perspective that may not be quite the same as the "official" version. Also too, she is the one who called her friend. On the cop side of the house, a domestic violence call is the most dangerous and the police are more edgy generally when responding to this type of call than towards other responses, the reason is simple: more police are killed or injured responding to these types of calls than other types of responses. Adrenalin is flowing and all that flight or flight stuff is starting to kick in, in many cases. If the victim was intoxicated, another bad thing, because you can never reason with a drunk...period.
 
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