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308 M1 garand what is working for you

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by mac1911, Sep 7, 2017.

  1. mac1911

    mac1911 NES Member

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    whos loading what and whats working for you..
    I think im going to start my 308 garand reloads with light bullets 110-125ish grains for 200 yard matches?
    Rifle is in the build stage at the moment
     
  2. MGnoob

    MGnoob NES Life Member NES Member

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    I can offer advice yet.i have everything to start progessive reloading except my 4 molds for casting and a rifle chambered in .308... i should have the rifle in a couple weeks..the molds should be done aswell but i think it might take alittle longer.

    Why do you prefer lighter projectiles?we are doing two diffent thing so im curious...heavy projectiles take less powder to achieve volocity... and I just suspect they'll cycle better aswell from my beltfed..
    Heres a drawing of what il be working with.


    Ill have to post image later its not working
     

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  3. mac1911

    mac1911 NES Member

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    So your running cast out of a belt fed system.
    Are you running auto and do you think you will have a leading issue with the heat build up?

    I will most likely end up shooting cast also and will probably go with a heavier cast bullet.
    I have been working on cast loads for 06 M1 but that's back burner for now.

    As for my choice of light projectiles. I have grown to like the reduced recoil and accuracy.
    I have been working up loads for the garand with some 110s and will be shooting those in Oct or Nov at a,match. I have not made any real gains in accuracy vs my "normal " loads but rapid fire position the muzzle/sights are staying on the tArget during recoil. I'm still getting a few FTF and don't know if its the gun or the load. I'm,going to bump the powder charge a grain or so and see what happens.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2017
  4. MGnoob

    MGnoob NES Life Member NES Member

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    Yes full auto.

    Ive shot them naked, coated and copper plated Out of of my current beltfed for several years now. I have never even ran a brush through barrel in any of my guns in years.
    If for some reason during load development i experience leading, a few coated or jacketed projectiles fired through the gun cleans it right out....its about size and hardness(mostly size)

    I prefer not to run The lighter projectiles with light loads so all the ammo i make functions in all of my guns.
    Heat won't cause leading, the projectile isnt in the barrel long enough, its also not hot enough..
    If you had a round in hot chamber even at 650f(approximate lead melt point)
    The round would cook off before the projectile melted.

    Im looking forward to .308
    My .223 where only designed with the intent to shoot 100 yards, to my supprise they work well much further. Im hoping to get out to 600 yards with the .308. Screenshot_2017-09-08-20-27-19.png
     
  5. MGnoob

    MGnoob NES Life Member NES Member

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    It would have been nice to not have the roll crimp groove, but with full auto and beltfed ita just insurance against bullet setback or having the projectile remain in the barrel when clearing a malfunction.


    One i make some, ill give you some at next years NES ahoot if you stop by.
     
  6. mac1911

    mac1911 NES Member

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    will it have a lube grove. What velocities are you running . alloy and such. That bullet design not intended for a gas check? I know your shooting platforms that are rated by accuracy by dispersion but im surprised a cast boat tail bullet at 308 seals well and you do not get gas checking and leading ?
    I doubt I will get to a NES shoot ....have trouble getting to the 4 ranges with in 20 min of my house!![angry]
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2017
  7. MGnoob

    MGnoob NES Life Member NES Member

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    No lube groove. im going to copper plate them, or they could be coated aswell.
    No gas check, it shouldn't need it. Im hoping to eleminatate some of the accuracy by dispersion only because i am going for range, for the .223 they are designed to be used with a gascheck but i dont because their primary use is cars and pumpkins at 25 feet.

    Sealing shouldnt be an issue, thats where size comes in.

    As far as speed for the .308, i dont know yet. Im thinking max will be around 2400-2600fps.
    But i will have to experiment....ill find out what the minimum load is to cycle. Might be as low as 1800-2000fps. Onces i find these extremes ill find an accurate load and go to town.

    As far as alloy. Probably air cooled wheel weight or maybe a tad softer.. casting those .223s isnt easy especially for consistant accuracy, avoiding flyier is hard. They are hard to visually inspect, hard to hold.
    .308 is going to be a cakewalk in comparison.

    Ive never heard of anyone casting boattails before. For the majority of shooters plain base or for pistols bevel base is the way to go IMO.
     
  8. mac1911

    mac1911 NES Member

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    I have had poor results going over 2k FPS with my cast loads out of , garand,1903a3, 8mm mauser. Short sting with the 223 AR got function at 20 grains of H4895 but accuracy was minute of berm
     
  9. MGnoob

    MGnoob NES Life Member NES Member

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    Im 2800fps with the 62g .223 23.5g ramshot tac. If i take the time to even inspect the projectiles they are quite good.

    Im really just guessing with the .308. Im using a completely different platform(HK), untested custom projectiles, different barrel twist rates then I've worked with.

    Im going to just with the TAC i use for the .223s and see how its works. New stuff is always a learning experience.should be fun
     
  10. MGnoob

    MGnoob NES Life Member NES Member

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    So what did you end up doing?
    I received my molds today.
    20171012_180120.jpg 20171012_180157.jpg
     
  11. mac1911

    mac1911 NES Member

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    For now I'm just running a mild load of Varget and nosler 155s/168s. If I have enough ambition I will load up 40 rounds for a cmp match on Sunday. I,would have to shoot out of competition. So I'm torn. I have 2 matches left to try and beat my current high score with as issued 30-06 M1 or run my recent 308 build?
    As for cast ? I will probably just try the 3 different 30 cal bullets I have on hand and load H4895 until I get function and accuracy. As stated I'm not having much luck with the 180/200grain bullets running above 1900fps... accuracy is dismal over 1900.
    I will be back at the cast loads for the 308 in the spring. Right now I'm focused on the type 99 for Sunday.
    I will run the 308 at Nov CMP match and run it in modern military match.
     
  12. mac1911

    mac1911 NES Member

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    was a decent first run less than 50 rounds through the new barrel.
    Shot pretty well for my fisrt match with this rifle. Took 5 shots to dial it in....can see pasters high 8 and 9 ring and one pulled shot to the right (3rd sight) and called it. fun and next match will be even better. Went with 168 grain nosler and Varget for a touch over 2600fps
    [​IMG]
     
  13. DukeInFlorida

    DukeInFlorida NES Member

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    Hope that you do not overlook the critical speed limits on powder for the M1, and M1A. Whether you are loading M1 (30-06) or M1A (308 Win), both rifles have an "operating rod" that is on the right side of the receiver, when viewed from the top. If you choose a powder that burns too fast, you WILL RISK bending the operating rod. Once bent, the cyclic rate of the gun will suffer.

    IMR 4064 and IMR 4895 are the two powders (both stick powders) that are perfect for use in the M1 Garand, and M1A.

    For the record, H4895 is NOT the same as IMR 4895
     
  14. mac1911

    mac1911 NES Member

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    So true, the 308 Garand is a bit more forgiving to powder than 06 because of case capacity.
    It's a valid point and there are plenty of burn rate safe powders out there and I'm amazed at how many still reload with powders that are not well suited.
    I'm not a M1a guy but the operating system is different and I don't believe it is as susceptible to over pressure as the M1.

    I will also note that you need not run your garand/06/308 or M1a at the higher end of load data.
    I run some pretty low end data and achieve function and accuracy. It cuts down on recoil and the beating on the action.

    Just for those that do not know why the operating rob bends

    It's not velocity or chamber pressure or bullet weight it's how much gas pressure and volume reach the gas port on the barrel. If this volume and pressure exceeds a certain thresh hold it will violently push the operating rod reward and slam it and the bolt to the rear. More or less over riding the op rod spring.

    Think of it like this. A 50 pound kid can play with a kids pogo stick for years. Now when drunk uncle Ben decides he's a pogo master it breaks on just a few bounces.

    Duke I have a cast load for my M1 that's fun to shoot. 200 grain slug at just under 1800fps and it cycles. Accuracy is right there with average garands and M2 ball ammo. It's not my best garand but it cycles on a powder charge low enough to be used with cast loads with out special alloy.

    As for 308
    147 grain M80 runs at 2733fps
    173gn M118 LC match 2550
    Then came M852 with a 168 grain match king.
    All designed around the M14 national match rifles.
    Again if your not pushing out past 300 yards or trying to maintain velocity out to 800 yards or more there's really no need for heavy fast bullets.
    I will be working on a light load with both bullets and powder.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2017

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