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168 grain Garand load
- Thread starter headednorth
- Start date
looks like BisonBallistics.com...got it, thank you! kinda sucks because the 100yd range at my club is actually 112 or 114yds, but I guess it'll actually be better for training purposes.
New (new to me) rifle, new build, sight replacement, etc are all reasons to back up to 50 as needed. That said, my skills need a LOT of work...
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Actually, I think the SR1 is a little more challenging than the SR. I think the scale is slightly less than half of the SR.
well, maybe just what i need to break 225 in august at the next match i can go to...this, and more muscles to hold that rifle up to shoot offhand.
but i'm drinking milk. someday i'm going to be big and strong. someday...sigh.
It's not inconceivable that some of you might double my score. I have two planned practices between now and the June 11 match, with the possibility of sneaking one or two more. First task is to try to fix that rear sight on the special. I know I had a few shots last autumn not in the black. So first goal to get all in the black and then work from there. I had an acquaintance on a different forum that went by the handle "slowly getting better." I'm trying to make that my motto.
Yes it is the SR1 X=1.35" 10=3.35" 9=6.35
SR. X=3" 10= 7" 9=13"
From what I have come to figure out is the slight decrease in size is for lack of wind influence ?
Want a challenge run a MR31 for slow fire.
That's what you use for NRA highpower
I don't get to the range much. Dry fire and pellet gun around the yard is the only thing keeping me shooting at the level I am...off hand has not improved in many years as I just don't get enough real time practice. When I'm on I can get into the low 90s but honestly anything 80 plus is good for me right now.
Yeah that's always been my issue with offhand shooting. At least for more precise shots. Usually not a problem if I'm shooting milk jugs at 120 yards offhand![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
I'll be taking the 43gn H4895 168 Nosler CC loads out tonight to see if they're still giving me the same accuracy as they did the other day. With how they cycled with the original gas plug installed, I may just have found a decent load for CMP as issued matches. With the heavier (than M2 ball) projectile, but at lower velocities, do you think i'm doing any unnecessary damage to my rifle by running it with the stock gas plug? I've come to understand that the Schuster Adjustables are no bueno for 'as issued'.
Below are the stats from the string i'm referring to vs a good size sample of mixed headstamp HXP.
View attachment 30_06_43_0gn_h4895_168_nosler_hpbt_custom_competition_3_320_coal.pdf
View attachment hxp_greek.pdf
the M1 can handle it. stay with in burn rate safe powders and data and you will be fine.
I know one old timer who ran 200 grain loads back in his day. He still shoots a pretty stout 174 grain load also.
Remember its not the chamber pressure that destroys op rods or wears on your guns its port pressure at the gas cylinder. If there is to much port pressure you end up slamming the op rod and bolt back vs having the correct port pressure that just gives enough presure to create enough inertia on the op rod to have it complete it cycle.
correct remeber the M2 or any military cartridge is designed generally on multiple use and multiple platforms.
also needs to retain enough energy to be effect out to what ever range they want it to be.
just like the AR specs are 3200 fps or so for a 62 grain bullet.
I can tell you my 60 grain target loads are only going about 2700fps
When your loading to target shoot you only need to load to function and accuracy. You dont need a full 49 grains of H4895 to make sure your worn dirty M1 has the best chance to cycle.... if you look at M2 ball specs wich is about 2800 they are pretty hot but the M1 was 174 grain bullet going about 2650 fps
I have had good luck with 46.3 of varget and the 168 SMK / 168 hornady BTHP. This weekend I shot some at the 200 yard version of the 300 yard target (whatever its called, some highpower thing) and got 5 all on the edge of the x ring. This was probably a fluke though.
It was a SR-42 shot at 200 yards. I was shooting off a rest not prone though. I finally got a nicer rear sight with the 0.047" aperture and went to test it out. It seems to work way better for me than the military sight.
At 200 yards you use the SR 42 to simulate the 300 yard target.
CMP Games are shot at 100 and 200 yards and only use the SR target for all stages.
High power across the course and cmp EIC and national matches use the NRA high power targets and shoot 200-300-600 yard targets or their reduced content part.
Just think of the black bull of being about 6moa
Just focus on your hold and sight picture as the black dot looks the same all the way out to 1000 yards...
4.2 100yd Targets
(a) NRA No. SR-I Reduction of the SR Target for use at 100 yards to
simulate the 200-yard stages of the National Match Course.
Aiming Black_(inches)_____Rings in White_(inches)
X ring--------1.35_______________8 ring------9.35
10 ring-------3.35_______________7 ring-----12.35
9 ring--------6.35_______________6 ring-----15.35
___________________________5 ring------18.35
(b) NRA No. SR-21 Reduction of the SR-3 target to simulate the
300-yard stage of the National Match Course at 100 yards.
Aiming Black-(inches)----Rings in White--(inches)
X ring---------0.79 __________ 7 ring---------8.12
10 ring--------2.12 _________ 6 ring---------10.12
9 ring---------4.12 __________ 5 ring---------12.12
8 ring---------6.12
(c) NRA No. MR-31 Reduction of the MR-I target to simulate the
600-yard stage of the National Match Course at 100 yards.
Aiming Black--(inches)--Rings in White--(inches)
X ring----------.75 ___________6 ring---------7.75
10 ring--------1.75__________ 5 ring---------9.75
9 ring---------2.75
8 ring---------3.75
7 ring---------5.75
4.3 200 Yard Targets
(a) No. SR Military "Target, Rifle, Competition, Short Range."
Aiming Black-(inches)--Rings in White-(inches)
X ring--------3.00__________ 8 ring--------19.00
10 ring-------7.00 __________ 7 ring--------25.00
9 ring-------13.00 __________ 6 ring--------31.00
_______________________ 5 ring--------37.00
(b) NRA No. SR-42-Reduction of the SR-3 target to simulate the 300-
yard stage of the National Match Course at 200 yards.
Aiming Black-(inches)--Rings in White-(inches)
X ring---------1.90 _________ 7 ring--------16.56
10 ring--------4.56 _________ 6 ring--------20.56
9 ring---------8.56 _________ 5 ring--------24.56
8 ring---------12.56
(c) NRA No. MR-52-Reduction of the MR-1 target to simulate the
600-yard stage of the National Match Course at 200 yards.
Aiming Black-(inches)--Rings in White-(inches)
X ring---------1.79 ________ 6 ring---------15.79
10 ring--------3.79 ________ 5 ring---------19.79
9 ring---------5.79
8 ring---------7.79
7 ring--------11.79
(d) NRA No. SR-5-Same scoring ring dimensions as No. SR Military
with scoring rings through 7 only; paper size 28 x 28 inches. For use
at 200 yards on ranges with small target frames.
4.4 300 Yard Targets
(a) NRA No. SR-3-Enlarged aiming black for use in 300-yard rapid fire
matches only. Scoring rings the same as the SR target, with the 8-ring
in the aiming black.
Aiming Black-(inches)--Rings in White-(inches)
X ring--------3.00 _________ 7 ring--------25.00
10 ring-------7.00 _________ 6 ring--------31.00
9 ring-------13.00 _________ 5 ring--------37.00
8 ring-------19.00
(b) NRA No.MR-63 Reduction of the MR-1 target for use at 300 yards
to simulate the 600-yard stage of the National Match Course.
Aiming Black-(inches)--Rings in White-(inches)
X ring---------2.85 ________ 6 ring---------23.85
10 ring--------5.85 ________ 5 ring---------29.85
9 ring---------8.85
8 ring--------11.85
7 ring--------17.85
4.5 500 Yard Target
(a) No. MR-"Target, Rifle, Competition Mid-Range." Used in 500-yard
matches only.
Aiming Black-(inches)--Rings in White-(inches)
X ring--------6.00 _________ 7 ring----------36.00
10 ring------12.00 _________ 6 ring----------48.00
9 ring-------18.00 _________ 5 ring----------60.00
8 ring-------24.00
4.6 600 Yard Target
(a) MR-I1 target-Enlarged aiming black for use in 600-yard matches
only.
Aiming Black-(inches)--Rings in White-(inches)
X ring---------6.00 __________ 6 ring--------48.00
10 ring-------12.00 _________ 5 ring--------60.00
9 ring--------18.00
8 ring--------24.00
7 ring--------36.00
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The SR-1 targets seem to be a hell of a lot easier to see at 100yds than the other targets I was using to test loads. Last night I took out another batch of the 43gn H4895's 168 Nosler CC HPBT and had mixed results. The load is pretty darn accurate it seems, but about 1/4 of them aren't cycling the rifle with the adjustable Schuster gas plug set at basically the lowest setting possible that WOULD cycle most of the rounds. All of the rounds I shot with the USGI gas plug cycled fine, but I admittedly wanted to play with the Schuster, as this was also only my second time trying it out...but my first time with a group of rounds of the same load so I really thought I'd be able to dial it in.
I shot (3) five shot groups from the bench with sandbags as a front rest over the chrono to try and get my zero as close as possible and to see if I could dial in the Schuster. Once again this load groups well at 100yds it seems and doesn't seem to be too picky about weather, but for some reason there's a pretty large variance in velocities between rounds. All rounds were measured on an accurate digital scale from the same container of H4895. I'm not really seeing why this is happenning, but coming to understand why the Schuster wasn't really able to do its job.
![IMG_20170516_204028472[1].jpg](https://www.northeastshooters.com/xen/data/attachments/111/111696-ec36ce354c79eb387da8a81e3aac02fd.jpg "IMG_20170516_204028472[1].jpg")
![Screenshot_2017-05-17-08-47-52[1].png](https://www.northeastshooters.com/xen/data/attachments/111/111697-673d1ed0f4a67026c92938dd91af6c3c.jpg "Screenshot_2017-05-17-08-47-52[1].png")
![Screenshot_2017-05-17-10-49-14[1].png](https://www.northeastshooters.com/xen/data/attachments/111/111699-ce41794b7a9d871374dc1a64ab0726e5.jpg "Screenshot_2017-05-17-10-49-14[1].png")
![Screenshot_2017-05-17-10-48-47[1].png](https://www.northeastshooters.com/xen/data/attachments/111/111701-10e1baee933a9b48501d932865beec16.jpg "Screenshot_2017-05-17-10-48-47[1].png")
Even though I was having trouble with the cycling, my original intention was to get out and practice...even though I'm going to miss the next two matches due to getting sent overseas. I used my range finder and headed out onto the grass in front of the bench and found my 100yd line. Put down a cardboard box to keep the ticks off me (Worcester Pistol and Rifle is like a tick factory lately) and set up my timer on my phone.
All in all, I REALLY like practicing with these targets. It's really darn close from what I remember from the last match as to what my sight picture looked like on the full size SR targets at 200. Still need more practice, for sure...but I actually had a LOT of fun running the course of fire without all the stress of the match setting. I admittedly ran over by 40s the rapid fire because my first 4 rounds failed to have enough velocity to feed the next round, but was within time for my slow prone and slow standing.
![IMG_20170516_204548743[2].jpg](https://www.northeastshooters.com/xen/data/attachments/111/111695-37bf929a7fbd67e9179cf32f0c2779a6.jpg "IMG_20170516_204548743[2].jpg")
I nicked the paper twice on the outer right and outer left edge on the target I used for 'standing', but you can only really see the shot on the left of the paper. Those shots are technically 8 ring, so I'm counting them!
Maybe by July I'll have a few more times to get out after I get home and I can work up a reliable load for 'as issued' with some 155 Noslers so i'm not so worried about doing damage to my rifle with the original gas plug in.
I shot (3) five shot groups from the bench with sandbags as a front rest over the chrono to try and get my zero as close as possible and to see if I could dial in the Schuster. Once again this load groups well at 100yds it seems and doesn't seem to be too picky about weather, but for some reason there's a pretty large variance in velocities between rounds. All rounds were measured on an accurate digital scale from the same container of H4895. I'm not really seeing why this is happenning, but coming to understand why the Schuster wasn't really able to do its job.
Even though I was having trouble with the cycling, my original intention was to get out and practice...even though I'm going to miss the next two matches due to getting sent overseas. I used my range finder and headed out onto the grass in front of the bench and found my 100yd line. Put down a cardboard box to keep the ticks off me (Worcester Pistol and Rifle is like a tick factory lately) and set up my timer on my phone.
All in all, I REALLY like practicing with these targets. It's really darn close from what I remember from the last match as to what my sight picture looked like on the full size SR targets at 200. Still need more practice, for sure...but I actually had a LOT of fun running the course of fire without all the stress of the match setting. I admittedly ran over by 40s the rapid fire because my first 4 rounds failed to have enough velocity to feed the next round, but was within time for my slow prone and slow standing.
I nicked the paper twice on the outer right and outer left edge on the target I used for 'standing', but you can only really see the shot on the left of the paper. Those shots are technically 8 ring, so I'm counting them!
Maybe by July I'll have a few more times to get out after I get home and I can work up a reliable load for 'as issued' with some 155 Noslers so i'm not so worried about doing damage to my rifle with the original gas plug in.
Attachments
![Screenshot_2017-05-17-10-49-03[1].png](/xen/data/attachments/111/111700-2a0551879b680624aeb1ff6869da46cc.jpg)
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I got the plug more so just to work up loads. I still have 4 or 5 different powders to try before I settle on something and would rather have the loads doing minimal damage while testing them out. I agree though if I decide to use this as a plinking round or for a shorter range match that I could probably be safe just using the issued plug without working the action too hard.
Ditch the adjustable plug it's not so much designed for lighter charges it's to negate putting non "safe" ammo in your M1 like a 200 grain how hunting load with a fast powder.
Your loads and most of the published M1 data is well into the "safe" zone
Again although JCG had dreams of a 270 cal based new cartridge for the M1 it was developed and designed around the several million rounds of M1 left over from WWI which was a 173 grain bullet
Moving at 2650fps or so 75' from the muzzle of the testing device.
Stuff that GI plug back in and start loading.
When you start pushing up into the high 40 grain zone or pushing the limits of powder burn rates that plug may find a usefulness.
The time you spend adjusting the plug is just a waste of good bullets. If your not adjusting it to each load your not utilizing the plug anyway.
More time shooting.....if I listened to this advice I would be a better shooter now....
Remember it's not the "pressure" that destroys M1s it's excessive gas volume that reaches the port.
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If you have not yet these books I recommend them.
Hatchers note book and Hatchers book on the M1
https://www.amazon.com/Hatchers-Notebook-Revised-Classic-Books/dp/0811703509
Also
https://www.amazon.com/U-S-Caliber-...95071771&sr=1-2&keywords=30+cal+service+rifle
I will bet a bandoleer of HXP that your shooting and accuracy will improve reading these vs any load development.
Hatchers note book and Hatchers book on the M1
https://www.amazon.com/Hatchers-Notebook-Revised-Classic-Books/dp/0811703509
Also
https://www.amazon.com/U-S-Caliber-...95071771&sr=1-2&keywords=30+cal+service+rifle
I will bet a bandoleer of HXP that your shooting and accuracy will improve reading these vs any load development.
Hey Dakar652-
When you are in town, let's go shoot. Glad to spot for you- adjustments might go faster with a spotter. I'm in Holden but just close to the Worcester line. Also if we are both going to Old Colony you are welcome to ride with me.
If I'm reading your results correctly, looks like your velocity was dropping shot to shot. Something getting loose perhaps, maybe something going on with the adjustable plug. As mac1911 mentioned, I think that adjustable plug was designed to tame hotter 'standard' .30-06 loads commonly available for hunting. Not sure what its capabilities would be for slightly lighter loads.
I need good light to shoot like this, but here's a reason to go with ~46.5 grains Varget with 168 SMK's, forget about loads, and just go shoot:
https://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/62373-Let-s-see-those-target-pictures-post-em-here?p=5186743&highlight=mountain+garand#post5186743
See post #1124
When you are in town, let's go shoot. Glad to spot for you- adjustments might go faster with a spotter. I'm in Holden but just close to the Worcester line. Also if we are both going to Old Colony you are welcome to ride with me.
If I'm reading your results correctly, looks like your velocity was dropping shot to shot. Something getting loose perhaps, maybe something going on with the adjustable plug. As mac1911 mentioned, I think that adjustable plug was designed to tame hotter 'standard' .30-06 loads commonly available for hunting. Not sure what its capabilities would be for slightly lighter loads.
I need good light to shoot like this, but here's a reason to go with ~46.5 grains Varget with 168 SMK's, forget about loads, and just go shoot:
https://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/62373-Let-s-see-those-target-pictures-post-em-here?p=5186743&highlight=mountain+garand#post5186743
See post #1124
Will absolutely take you up on all counts sometime, thank you! As previously stated, I won't be making the next couple matches as I'm leaving very soon...but as soon as I get back it'll be all systems go.
if you get a chance pick up 20 rounds of Federal Gold Medal Match or creedmore 30-06 ammo there are not to many guns that wont shoot this stuff well. the creedmoor you can sell the once fired brass for a good penny.
install the original gas plug. go prone with a big old sand bag supporting your front arm and get a base line on what the rifle can do with a know good ammo....
I think I'm going to do 10 rounds of 45gr Varget with either 168 Nosler Custom Comps or 168gr Hornady match HPBT and then 10 more with IMR4064 and see what works better for me.
Going to begin preparing with the expectation that I will be using the service grade June 11 since I haven't gotten the return label for the special's sights yet. I picked up another USGI websling to try with the SKS but haven't put it on yet. The case of Golden Tiger I bought in Feb. has had at least three duds so I am little worried. Might do Wolf Mil Spec HP instead.
Going to begin preparing with the expectation that I will be using the service grade June 11 since I haven't gotten the return label for the special's sights yet. I picked up another USGI websling to try with the SKS but haven't put it on yet. The case of Golden Tiger I bought in Feb. has had at least three duds so I am little worried. Might do Wolf Mil Spec HP instead.
doing the mix and match of bullets and powder in such small volumes is not very productive.
Try to log each shot and see if your M1 has a pattern to how it shoots. even my nice new barrel JCG rifle has a habbit of tossing the 1st shot a little low and left on each clip. although single load with a SLED i dont get that as much. I have posted several groups here on my post and its not hard to see the patterns in my groups
