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16-18" AR10, would you go 308 or 6.5 creedmoor?
- Thread starter Queen Bee
- Start date
I assume 308. I am making a version of the m110 as well. Just with a round forend by apex. 6.5 creedmoor just seems so good in that platform. Even the military is making their m110s into 6.5
Tallahassee
NES Member
Keystone Accuracy – Accuracy starts here!
keystoneaccuracy.com
Got some really good barrels from Keystone.
you have rich taste
Keystone Accuracy – Accuracy starts here!
Got some really good barrels from Keystone.
Rocky Mosasaurus
NES Member
My friend’s brother just bought this rifle last Fall. He said he can probably push the range to 1600 yards. 20” barrel and easily available 6.5CM during any ammo shortages as my grandmother used to say: “What’s not to love?”
www.smith-wesson.com
M&P 10 | Smith & Wesson
Rocky Mosasaurus
NES Member
Major facts, he is in CT but as I’m sure you’re aware those features are ideal for a 6.5CM build (free float, non-chrome lined, 20” barrel, etc.). And if Worman vs. Healey goes our way you may own this rifle in a years time!
AllaSnackbah
NES Member
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- Sep 11, 2009
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Yeah .308. Knight's and others are building 6.5 gas guns yeah. But .308 M110s will be around for a lonnnng time. I have an AI in 6.5, but im not totally ready to give up on .308 especially on semi autos like the SR25. Ammo cost and barrel life is still better on 308, and the longest range in CT is like 2-300 yards so considering that 6.5 is kind of a waste especially when a 16" 308 is fully capable of doing work out to 1000, which 95% of us will never really shoot at anyways so idk why its such a benchmark.
Tallahassee
NES Member
I wouldn't say rich taste, I am just getting old.
DarthRevan
NES Member
That's some sexy f***ing shit I tell you h'wat
wait a minute, this decision should be easy. You sold your Scar, so now you need to replace it with a .308 so you can shoot the shit ton of .308 ammo you stockpiled for your Scar. Otherwise, what are you going to do with that pallet of .308 ammo????
DarthRevan
NES Member
D
Deleted member 67409
wait a minute, this decision should be easy. You sold your Scar, so now you need to replace it with a .308 so you can shoot the shit ton of .308 ammo you stockpiled for your Scar. Otherwise, what are you going to do with that pallet of .308 ammo????
Shhhhh! You're ruining my cunning plan for me to get more .308 on the cheap.
Oredered:
faxon 20" fluted 6.5 match. i liked the idea of nitrided 6.5 and the 5R. almost went for the BA it was 88 dollars cheaper but did not have any coatings or 5R. and a faxon BCG
faxon 20" fluted 6.5 match. i liked the idea of nitrided 6.5 and the 5R. almost went for the BA it was 88 dollars cheaper but did not have any coatings or 5R. and a faxon BCG
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If you can afford to shoot 3000 rounds of 6.5 or 308 even the cheapest stuff including reloads barrel life should not be a consideration. If you wear out a barrel enough to show a decrease in YOUR accuracy then you and your upper deserves a treat of a new barrel.
For me I dont really see the point of a shorter barrel 6.5 Add in the actual end use.
I dont have experience with accuracy between the 6.5 vs 308 but for inside 600 yards theres a lot of choices for “lighter” loads in 308 if your going to reload.
If we are basing choices on price and availability of factory ammo 308 hands down. Over the next 10 years I see a good amount of 308 coming out of grand dads closests. We might have to wait 30 plus years for any 6.5 cm to be dragged out
For me I dont really see the point of a shorter barrel 6.5 Add in the actual end use.
I dont have experience with accuracy between the 6.5 vs 308 but for inside 600 yards theres a lot of choices for “lighter” loads in 308 if your going to reload.
If we are basing choices on price and availability of factory ammo 308 hands down. Over the next 10 years I see a good amount of 308 coming out of grand dads closests. We might have to wait 30 plus years for any 6.5 cm to be dragged out
6.5 kardashian is silly/waste in a barrel less than 22-24" if you're going for long range and accuracy but its your money.
6.5 Creedmoor- Effects of Barrel Length on Velocity 2019
“We do it right because we do it twice!”Greg Wagner, Wildlife Photographer Background The 6.5 Creedmoor has become one of the most popular center-fire cartridges in the precision rifle …rifleshooter.com
Your claim is kind of garbage. Your link even shows that going from 26” to 17” with 6.5CM only loses ~200 FPS, which is less than 10% loss of velocity with a 35% reduction in barrel length.
Bottom line, a 16” 6.5CM is still very effective, even at long range. A 16” 6.5CM has equal or better external ballistics compared to a 20-22” .308. The only valid considerations are ammo cost and availability of barrier blind ammo. That’s about it. Barrel length for barrel length, 6.5CM wins every other consideration with plenty of great match and hunting ammo availability. For barrel life, the difference isn’t going to save you a whole lot of money in the grand scheme of the cost of ammo to reach that point.
Well, 600 yards is firmly in the mid-range for most organizations overseeing the firearms community. Long range is beyond that.
The OP said they wanted a DMR rifle, not an F-class build. And for a DMR type rifle, going below 22” and even down to 16” in 6.5CM is absolutely still worthwhile. It will still allow you to shoot out to 1k. Yes, the extra 200fps will get you an additional 150 yards of supersonic flight, out to 1200 yards. But for a DMR, that’s not really what is being sought.
As for the M24, the conventional Army ditched 7.62 for their bolt guns and use 300WM. And really, if someone wants to shoot out past 1k, I would skip 308 or 6.5CM all together and go bigger(unless you’re beholden to specific competition rules on caliber). 308 and 7.62 can go past 1k, but that really is the realm better suited for bigger rounds. And it absolutely would not be in a DMR type rifle. But that’s not what we’re talking about here.
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Both calibers have great points. I used to shoot plenty of 308. I almost would have gone with 308 again. But looking at my own calibers of 5.56 and 8mm mauser. I wanted something more aerodynamic from factory rounds. I do not want to reload another caliber. And sure while 308 is cheap from surplus, s&b and magtech are making close to 10$ dollar ammo for 6.5. I am happy with that.
Sure we don't really have access over here in eastern MA to 1000k ranges, and hell i dont have access to a range past 250, but i would love to learn.
But additionally i thought to myself would i ever buy a bolt action 308. The answer was no. I love my 8mm mauser too much. And if i was worried about hitting power, the 8mm has the 308 in spades. Thus ammo compatibility came into play. 6.5 in a bolt action i would like to own one day as well. When thinking of a lightweight ruger, bergara or tikka bolt action without a muzzle brake in a given weight category the 6.5 will recoil lighter.
Sure we don't really have access over here in eastern MA to 1000k ranges, and hell i dont have access to a range past 250, but i would love to learn.
But additionally i thought to myself would i ever buy a bolt action 308. The answer was no. I love my 8mm mauser too much. And if i was worried about hitting power, the 8mm has the 308 in spades. Thus ammo compatibility came into play. 6.5 in a bolt action i would like to own one day as well. When thinking of a lightweight ruger, bergara or tikka bolt action without a muzzle brake in a given weight category the 6.5 will recoil lighter.
D
Deleted member 67409
There's two, three main purposes to a .308 bolt action:
*Suppressor host
*Precision rifle
*Hunting rifle
These can be combined, but with varying degrees of effectiveness in each area.
Nope. In my SDM course, we took our M4s out to ~800 meters with 15mph full value winds. Depending on terrain, designated marksman with an appropriate caliber could likely be tasked with hitting targets out to 1k for a squad/platoon, but 800 meters is absolutely in the DMR wheelhouse.
Oh, the things you read on the internet
![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
It’s not about drop. That’s a known and consistent quantity(with the exception of shots with vertical angular differences). The benefit is in wind resistance. And as mentioned, you can get 20-22” 308 wind resistance in a 16” 6.5CM and even better if you go longer.
Let’s play your 500 yard “not that far” game.
Using 20” barrels, with a very mild 10mph full value wind:
6.5CM with 140gr: 14.9” drift
7.62 with 168gr: 24.4” drift
Split the difference in your wind read for the 6.5CM and you’ll still make a hit. Split the difference with 7.62 and you can still completely miss the target. And that’s with slippery 168gr match king.
Push the wind up to 15mph and the 6.5CM is only at 22.4” drift (still under the 24.4” from the 7.62 with 10mph winds). At 15mph, the 7.62 drifts a full three feet or 36.5” at 500 yards.
500 yards isn’t all that far, you’re right. But 6.5CM has very clear external ballistics advantages even at 500.
It’s not just about long range, and again, bullet drop isn’t the significant factor. Wind resistance is. It’s easy to gauge distances(and therefore drop) for designated marksman, even in a firefight. That is not the case for wind. Any benefit to mitigate wind is massive to increasing hit probability. The flatter trajectory is just a bonus.
Having been a trained designated marksman infantryman, I wholeheartedly disagree about 6.5CM not providing solutions in a DMR role. If I were given the option prior to a deployment, it would be 6.5CM every time.
So much so, that when I went to build my own, I went straight to 6.5CM and skipped 7.62. If someone already has a 7.62 rifle, there’s not enough benefit to switch. But if someone is buying/building a new gun, there is little benefit in doing 7.62. Aside from the two factors I mentioned before: ammo price if you’re shooting surplus, and barrier blind ammo. I don’t have much need for barrier blind ammo though.
16” Faxon gunner with the 5R twist. Excited to try it, but I finished the build around the time of range closures.
Not really interested in another interweb forum argument tbh
DMR requirement/spec = out to ~600 meters
Marines Set to Field New Designated Marksman Rifle
Designated marksmen are the best shots in a unit but not quite snipers.www.popularmechanics.com
the whole rest of the argument in favor of 6.5 is silly
If you wish to spend money burning a hole in your pocket and make a fun gun thats great......but if you're gonna stick to/justify the "DMR" function then thats ~600 meters or less and at that range 6.5 is just throwing money away
There’s doctrine, and then there’s actual execution and use in the field. Army Marksmanship Unit instructors teach designated marksman to shoot well past 600 meters. It is caliber dependent of course, but even 5.56 is taught past 600 meters. Facts.
And you clearly didn’t read my post about benefits at 500 yards. To say the external ballistics benefits I showed at 500 yards are just throwing money away is being ignorant to the realities of the DMR role.
