Budget oriented safes?

1903Collector

1903Collector

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So due to a bunch of different circumstances I need to drastically rework My gun storage and part of that is a larger safe, My dilemma is twofold, I can't spend more than 2k and that includes any delivery fees and the safe can be no more than 40" wide as that's the space I have dedicated for it. I realized at that price point I'm not getting top notch, not even middle notch probably but i'm ok with that as any of the safes I'm looking at are already better than what I have now.

So far I have looked at Cannon and Liberty. Now the backdoor code thing aside I like the fact that Liberty's are USA made and they use a bit thicker steel, what I really, really, don't like is they don't have backup keys for when the electronic lock fails. The Cannon's on the other hand are made in Mexico, not crazy about that, but they do come with a backup key.

The safe will be in the basement gun room, I thought about relocating it upstairs but the weight on the one's I've looked at so far are in the 650lb range and fully loaded we could be close to 1000lbs. I don't think my floors would like that much dead weight concentrated in one area.

There don't seem to be a lot of options in welfare safe land, at least not in the size/price I'm looking. Any other options I'm missing here? any other brands I need to look at?
 
1903Collector said:
Too small, They had one from Cannon that has a 64 gun capacity although I'm skeptical about that and it's 40" on the nose. Liberty has a 44 gun that's 36" but no key. (these are all at TS.) Its the no backup key that really bothers me unless someone can convince me otherwise.
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When seconds count, the locksmith is only hours away
 
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Pre-Owned Safes at ESS

We just took in a few pre-owned safes. All in working order. Starting at $1200 if picked up at either location. Delivery available at additional cost. Call either store for more information. Mendon; 508-473-1048, West Springfield; 413-781-1048
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M1911 said:
Instead of one big safe, how about a few smaller, lighter, gun cabinets. Yes, easier to break into, but also easier to hide.
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Well thats the thing, I already have this. Three smaller stack-on's and a walmart sheet metal special and a secure, double locked closet. I'm trying to consolidate as much as I can into one safe, but I also realize I may need to keep one of the stack-on's.
 
1903Collector said:
Too small, They had one from Cannon that has a 64 gun capacity although I'm skeptical about that and it's 40" on the nose.
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If you are trying to get the greatest possible capacity in a 40" wide gun safe without going broke, that Cannon at TSC seems to be your only/best choice. I can go measure one for you to the gnat's ass tomorrow if that helps. I will be going right by a TSC.

That said, I have never been a fan of the imported Cannon safes. Way too many quality issues and owner complaints. :(
 
I like the filing cabinet locking bars. You can get a used four drawer cabinet and a locking bar for well under $100. Easy to move and doesn't scream guns. Not saying I would use for high value gun collection, but satisfies safe storage requirements.
 
Not secure criminal wise.

But some tool boxes locked in a closet hold a lot of pistols.

Just a thought I’d put out there while discussing this.
 

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Are you committed to an electronic lock? A mechanical lock like the S&G 6730 (Group II) or 6630 (Group IIM) would do nicely, not have the electronic lock failure risk, and probably be a bit less expensive. Avoid the 6741 since it is a 6730 built to a lower price point.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
Are you committed to an electronic lock? A mechanical lock like the S&G 6730 (Group II) or 6630 (Group IIM) would do nicely, not have the electronic lock failure risk, and probably be a bit less expensive. Avoid the 6741 since it is a 6730 built to a lower price point.
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I would prefer a good O'l dial lock but that doesn't seem to be the norm anymore.
 
EJFudd said:
If you are trying to get the greatest possible capacity in a 40" wide gun safe without going broke, that Cannon at TSC seems to be your only/best choice. I can go measure one for you to the gnat's ass tomorrow if that helps. I will be going right by a TSC.

That said, I have never been a fan of the imported Cannon safes. Way too many quality issues and owner complaints. :(
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I was at TS today and their measurements are right on when compared to the website. I really want to go with the Liberty but can't get passed the no backup key, I mean really why would they not include that feature. If I could swap out the electronic lock with a dial I would but is that even an option?
 
1903Collector said:
but no key. (these are all at TS.) Its the no backup key that really bothers me unless someone can convince me otherwise.
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Funny, the only "key" I want for my safe is the one that freezes the dial.

The keyway for the "backup" key is a weak link, why carve a hole in the side or back when you can drive a screwdriver into the backup keyhole and crank it around to unlatch the door?
 
1903Collector said:
I was at TS today and their measurements are right on when compared to the website. I really want to go with the Liberty but can't get passed the no backup key, I mean really why would they not include that feature. If I could swap out the electronic lock with a dial I would but is that even an option?
Click to expand...

Liberty does offer either mechanical or electronic locks. While the Winchester is an extreme example, I agree with @Kevin_NH that backup keys reduce the security of the system. Not only does one provide another attack path, you also have to worry about keeping the back up keys secure.

As usual, choosing a box and locking system depends on the level and type of threats you trying to protect against. If the safe is going to be located in a basement gun room, the fast access provided by an electronic or biometric lock shouldn't be high on your priority list.
 
1903Collector said:
I was at TS today and their measurements are right on when compared to the website. I really want to go with the Liberty but can't get past the no backup key, I mean really why would they not include that feature. If I could swap out the electronic lock with a dial I would but is that even an option?
Click to expand...
Parker Schreiber said:
Liberty does offer either mechanical or electronic locks. While the Winchester is an extreme example, I agree with @Kevin_NH that backup keys reduce the security of the system. Not only does one provide another attack path, you also have to worry about keeping the back up keys secure.
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Anyone who has watched the Lock Picking Lawyer (LPL) knows that virtually any key-type lock can be picked. In fact, the LPL sells the tools to do so... and it is not that hard with modern tools. In fact, it's quite fast and easy. Because of that, I agree with @Parker Schreiber that a gun safe back-up key is a rather risky idea.

Unfortunately, electronic keypad locks can and do fail... and the cheaper the keypad lock, the more likely it is to fail... and if failure is going to occur, it's probably going to occur at the worst possible time. The double-edged sword solution from the safe manufacturers: The back-up key.

That solution (to dead keypad locks) certainly works, but you are giving up a lot. I hope your local gun thief is not a big fan of the LPL. :(
 
Kevin_NH said:
Funny, the only "key" I want for my safe is the one that freezes the dial.

The keyway for the "backup" key is a weak link, why carve a hole in the side or back when you can drive a screwdriver into the backup keyhole and crank it around to unlatch the door?
Click to expand...

Unless the mechanical key is a S&G lever tumbler safe lock, it is a week point. The LaGard mechanical lock is nice, but it's really just a 3 wafer disk detainer lock that is easily picked with the right (but obscure) tool. At one point Liberty made safe with two conventional safe locks in different locations on the front of the safe, either of which would work to open the safe.

It't not just the electronics that can fail on an electronic - some of the locks use plastic work drive gears, electrolytic capacitors in the lock body can go pfft!!, etc.
 
When a keypad fails, it's just the electronic part? not the actual locking mechanism. If say, I got a spare keypad and just swapped it out if the original went bad I would be GTG?

Sitting here now thinking "am I over thinking this"? Theft is a concern yes, but not the driving one. Secure storage and consolidation of space are the driving factors.
 
1903Collector said:
When a keypad fails, it's just the electronic part? not the actual locking mechanism. If say, I got a spare keypad and just swapped it out if the original went bad I would be GTG?

Sitting here now thinking "am I over thinking this"? Theft is a concern yes, but not the driving one. Secure storage and consolidation of space are the driving factors.
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The "electronics" are in the lock not the keypad - if they were in the keypad then it's a super insecure lock since you can just activate the unlocker directly with a battery.
 
pastera said:
The "electronics" are in the lock not the keypad - if they were in the keypad then it's a super insecure lock since you can just activate the unlocker directly with a battery.
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I get that, but the keypad must be connected to some type of actuator via a cable? What I want to know is what fails when they crap out generally, just the keypad or whatever its connected to?
 
1903Collector said:
I get that, but the keypad must be connected to some type of actuator via a cable? What I want to know is what fails when they crap out generally, just the keypad or whatever its connected to?
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In my limited experience... it's always been a dead battery. 🤔

I know... not at all helpful to your question. I have yet to have an electronic keypad lock fail completely.
 
1903Collector said:
I get that, but the keypad must be connected to some type of actuator via a cable? What I want to know is what fails when they crap out generally, just the keypad or whatever its connected to?
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The keypad sends key presses to the actual intelligence in the lock.
However a lot of time it's the keypad that fails so you can swap that and get in.
 
1903Collector said:
I get that, but the keypad must be connected to some type of actuator via a cable? What I want to know is what fails when they crap out generally, just the keypad or whatever its connected to?
Click to expand...
If the problem isn't simply the battery, then it is often the keypad which fails, and replacing the keypad will allow your code to work again.

The keypad is connected to the "lock" by an electrical cable which sends your keypresses to the lock, and sends the feedback (lights, beeper) back to the keypad -- the keypad doesn't have any of the smarts, and doesn't store the combination or calculate the lockout/delay when you get it wrong -- all that is done inside the "lock".


Keypad on the left, the "lock body" on the right, with cable connecting them:
1715530496643.png
With the AmSec shown above, you can pull the keypad off the front of the safe to expose the 9V battery and that little telephone wire looking connector so you can swap in a new keypad without having to drill open the safe.
 
Kevin_NH said:
If the problem isn't simply the battery, then it is often the keypad which fails, and replacing the keypad will allow your code to work again.

The keypad is connected to the "lock" by an electrical cable which sends your keypresses to the lock, and sends the feedback (lights, beeper) back to the keypad -- the keypad doesn't have any of the smarts, and doesn't store the combination or calculate the lockout/delay when you get it wrong -- all that is done inside the "lock".


Keypad on the left, the "lock body" on the right, with cable connecting them:
View attachment 880354
With the AmSec shown above, you can pull the keypad off the front of the safe to expose the 9V battery and that little telephone wire looking connector so you can swap in a new keypad without having to drill open the safe.
Click to expand...
Also for attaching an electronic opener such as the Taylor Security Phoneix.
 
pastera said:
The keypad sends key presses to the actual intelligence in the lock.
However a lot of time it's the keypad that fails so you can swap that and get i
Click to expand...

Kevin_NH said:
If the problem isn't simply the battery, then it is often the keypad which fails, and replacing the keypad will allow your code to work again.

The keypad is connected to the "lock" by an electrical cable which sends your keypresses to the lock, and sends the feedback (lights, beeper) back to the keypad -- the keypad doesn't have any of the smarts, and doesn't store the combination or calculate the lockout/delay when you get it wrong -- all that is done inside the "lock".


Keypad on the left, the "lock body" on the right, with cable connecting them:
View attachment 880354
With the AmSec shown above, you can pull the keypad off the front of the safe to expose the 9V battery and that little telephone wire looking connector so you can swap in a new keypad without having to drill open the safe.
Click to expand...
Perfect, thanks that assuages a lot of worries.
 

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