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Zero Hour turns in pipe bomb builder
- Thread starter Martlet
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![[grin]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/041.gif "Grin [grin]")
This debate is getting ... muddy.
I think we've entered the "wait and see" phase of thw ZHA v. Ambrose matter. Hopefully more detail will emerge on a) the nature of the "bombs" that were found and b) whether the guy habitually exhibited odd behavior.
I don't even really understand what your point is.
Jim obviously didn't have a problem doing business with this guy. Jim apparently didn't call the cops when this guy showed up at his shop drunk with his daughter (did he conduct a transaction with him? Did he conduct a breath or blood test?). Jim apparently didn't call the cops because he didn't feel this guy couldn't be trusted with firearms.
Jim apparently called the cops when he saw an illegal act, and/or after his failed transaction.
The events as we know them support my argument completely.
It shows you have willingness to abuse power. Period.
Again, we don't know, and we won't know until more facts come out.
As has been said a few times in interviews, news stores, and by madmarc0's account, Jim's decision to call this one in came after a lot of deliberation, not just when he saw the illegal act. Perhaps what the guy was doing beforehand didn't add up to enough of a warning sign, and perhaps when Jim finally went out and saw what was going on, perhaps that added up. A sum of the parts = greater than the individual parts sort of thing.
As has been said a few times in interviews, news stores, and by madmarc0's account, Jim's decision to call this one in came after a lot of deliberation, not just when he saw the illegal act. Perhaps what the guy was doing beforehand didn't add up to enough of a warning sign, and perhaps when Jim finally went out and saw what was going on, perhaps that added up. A sum of the parts = greater than the individual parts sort of thing.
![[rolleyes]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/042.gif "Roll Eyes [rolleyes]")
this thread could be split into at least three discussions
not sure about auto locking a thread after 50 pages i am not sure if that is standard with 3.7? - maybe so if it is a hack they installed. dunno
either way,
not sure about auto locking a thread after 50 pages i am not sure if that is standard with 3.7? - maybe so if it is a hack they installed. dunno
either way,
I'm going to take my leave of this thread and catch up on a lot of work that needs to be done. It is clear that I will never agree with Martlet on Sheppard's decision, and there's no need for us to continually rehash that. I will leave this thread to those who are just finding it or just waking up and seeing this 470 post thread sitting there calling them, but I will withhold any further discussion until more firm news comes out.
As for the autolocking, I've seen it with 3.6, but I don't know whether it's a hack or not, so don't ask me.
As for the autolocking, I've seen it with 3.6, but I don't know whether it's a hack or not, so don't ask me.
Garys
NES Member
![[horse]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/026.gif "Beat a dead horse [horse]")
OK Lets see am i the only one whos awake here.
In case you missed it
According to his defense attorney, Ambrose does not have a criminal record. He has licenses to possess firearms and a carry concealed weapons. Officer found eight rifles, shotguns, and handguns when they searched his home, according to the report.
Ambrose has run his own landscaping business for the last 17 years, Creedon said. He was the object of a 2005 restraining order filed in Plymouth Probate and Family Court by the mother of his daughter, who is now 5 years old. The couple also have a 6-month-old baby, according to Creedon, who did not know the child’s gender.
also he shoots himself and gets his LTC revoked but gets it back. WTF
A restraining order and a AD and hes still got a LTC . How the hell does that happen in any town in Mass.
I agree with what Zero Hour Arms did this guy is dangerous.
To compair this to what Ted at Northeast Traders did is insane.
This was done with community safety in mind.
What Ted did is all about the mighty dollar.
And yes i do know what transpired at Northeast Traders i was there the morning Ted called the Ag.
In case you missed it
According to his defense attorney, Ambrose does not have a criminal record. He has licenses to possess firearms and a carry concealed weapons. Officer found eight rifles, shotguns, and handguns when they searched his home, according to the report.
Ambrose has run his own landscaping business for the last 17 years, Creedon said. He was the object of a 2005 restraining order filed in Plymouth Probate and Family Court by the mother of his daughter, who is now 5 years old. The couple also have a 6-month-old baby, according to Creedon, who did not know the child’s gender.
also he shoots himself and gets his LTC revoked but gets it back. WTF
A restraining order and a AD and hes still got a LTC . How the hell does that happen in any town in Mass.
I agree with what Zero Hour Arms did this guy is dangerous.
To compair this to what Ted at Northeast Traders did is insane.
This was done with community safety in mind.
What Ted did is all about the mighty dollar.
And yes i do know what transpired at Northeast Traders i was there the morning Ted called the Ag.
W
wolf223
LOL...
FYI - If you google "dead horse", you can find this and many many many more images... but I like this one the best....
I'm conflicted here.
I think people should be able to have hand grenades and C4, but I support Jim on his decision.
We used to use C4 to heat our meals. Pull off a chuck of it and light it with a match.
It didn't explode without a detonator, it was really pretty safe.
Someone here, maybe Derek said if you use the stuff right it is fun and safe.
I guess I have to agree with that. I could have some real fun with some C4, and while lighting it with a match might freak out my neighbors (If they even knew what it was), it would still be safe.
I agree we should have the right to use these materials, and I still think the guy was loony.
How do I reconcile this in my mind? I know I can't have it both ways. People think the guy was doing wrong. Some people would think MANY of us are doing wrong with what we collect and use, some having even "dozens" of guns.
Damn... I hate it when I screw my mind thinking about things like this
I think people should be able to have hand grenades and C4, but I support Jim on his decision.
We used to use C4 to heat our meals. Pull off a chuck of it and light it with a match.
It didn't explode without a detonator, it was really pretty safe.
Someone here, maybe Derek said if you use the stuff right it is fun and safe.
I guess I have to agree with that. I could have some real fun with some C4, and while lighting it with a match might freak out my neighbors (If they even knew what it was), it would still be safe.
I agree we should have the right to use these materials, and I still think the guy was loony.
How do I reconcile this in my mind? I know I can't have it both ways. People think the guy was doing wrong. Some people would think MANY of us are doing wrong with what we collect and use, some having even "dozens" of guns.
Damn... I hate it when I screw my mind thinking about things like this
Good Point !!
![[cheers]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/018.gif "Cheers [cheers]")
Hmmm. Sounds like someone might be coming back to "life on the other side of reality" with me.
![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
Wow. I leave my computer at work yesterday, come back after a morning of fun at DSG to do paperwork and find 48 pages! Needless to say my paperwork is on hold. I understand that for many of you this is a horse beaten thread, but it's fresh for me and i figured I haven't rambled in a while, so what the hell....
I think we do a disservice to ourselves when we feel the need to police our neighbors. Granted, Mr. Ambrose is/was an idiot. Had he kept his mouth shut, we'd be arguing about oil prices, or Glocks vs 1911's.
Obviously, Mr. Ambrose, (drunk or not), felt comfortable enough with Mr. Sheppard to share his hobby. Likewise, Jim felt comfortable enough with Mike to go to his home to purchase an ATV. If Mr. Ambrose made no specific threats, (i.e. "I'm going to blow up City Hall), or didn't have suicide vests hanging in his garage, then as an apparent friend, (or at least comfortable acquaintance), Jim could have and should have made some further inquiries into Mikes intentions before dropping a dime on him. Perhaps if Jim truly acted as a friend, he could have guided Mike back from the brink, (if there even was a brink) - rather than setting off a chain of events that has ultimately ruined the lives of Mr. Ambrose and his family. If he was that concerned for the safety of Mike, his family and the world at large, he could have taken steps outside of having this man arrested, his business in ruins, his family in jeopardy. He now faces 10's of thousands in legal bills, the loss of his home, likely his freedom, his business, his hobby and perhaps even his family - the man is ruined. Some would say he brought this on himself and to a point I would concur. However, Jim certainly did not make a decision that in my mind, justifies the tragic results for everyone involved.....
I think we do a disservice to ourselves when we feel the need to police our neighbors. Granted, Mr. Ambrose is/was an idiot. Had he kept his mouth shut, we'd be arguing about oil prices, or Glocks vs 1911's.
Obviously, Mr. Ambrose, (drunk or not), felt comfortable enough with Mr. Sheppard to share his hobby. Likewise, Jim felt comfortable enough with Mike to go to his home to purchase an ATV. If Mr. Ambrose made no specific threats, (i.e. "I'm going to blow up City Hall), or didn't have suicide vests hanging in his garage, then as an apparent friend, (or at least comfortable acquaintance), Jim could have and should have made some further inquiries into Mikes intentions before dropping a dime on him. Perhaps if Jim truly acted as a friend, he could have guided Mike back from the brink, (if there even was a brink) - rather than setting off a chain of events that has ultimately ruined the lives of Mr. Ambrose and his family. If he was that concerned for the safety of Mike, his family and the world at large, he could have taken steps outside of having this man arrested, his business in ruins, his family in jeopardy. He now faces 10's of thousands in legal bills, the loss of his home, likely his freedom, his business, his hobby and perhaps even his family - the man is ruined. Some would say he brought this on himself and to a point I would concur. However, Jim certainly did not make a decision that in my mind, justifies the tragic results for everyone involved.....
I can't believe this thread is still going.
You all could have been at Mansfield with us today eating tasty burgers, hot dogs and sausages and blasting through thousands of rounds of ammo on what turned out to be a beautiful day.![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
You all could have been at Mansfield with us today eating tasty burgers, hot dogs and sausages and blasting through thousands of rounds of ammo on what turned out to be a beautiful day.
I hope you don't feel that anyone that gets a restraining order during a break up or divorce deserves it. Thats probably what happened here! Almost every womens lawyer will advise the woman to take out an order so they can make the other party a bad guy in a divorce. It also serves as an instrument to remove a party from a house and or keep the party from going to the house without notice. It's a wonderfull tool especially if you dump a person and lives with someone else while you getting divorced. Very effective at keeping hubby from knowing what is happening in the kids life as well.
These are issued all the time and pretty much just for the asking, especially to women in divorces that go bad and most often the person either doesn't have the money to fight it, they haven't recorded facts to present to a judge or they don't know how many ways it might affect them in the future since it ends up on their CORI report.
After two weeks you get the opportunity to defend yourself while the order is in place and the judge will either extend the order or vacate it. This is one of the most abused sytems the courts and politicians ever dreamt up and they have abused it further with advocate groups.
The only way to restrain someone that want to really hurt or kill you is to have your own weapon. I can't think of one case where a person ever ran from a violent scene because someone waived a restraining order at them. If anything, the 209A procedure has more than likely resulted in more violence than it's prevented.
I can't believe this thread is still going.
You all could have been at Mansfield with us today eating tasty burgers, hot dogs and sausages and blasting through thousands of rounds of ammo on what turned out to be a beautiful day.
You have no idea how much I wish I had been....Now I sit here in my office with patient charts stacked to the ceiling and trying to find the motivation to get moving...Glad you guys had a good time.
I think this thread is still going, as there are very diverse opinions out there and folks like to express them. I can see points on both sides of the fence, but am starting to compile a list of people to keep out of my garage...
Mass-diver
NES Member
The thing that sucks is that gun owners come out looking like shit from this whole thing. Both today's Globe and Ledger articles imply that Jim knew about the pipe bombs for a soem time but,only came forward when the ATV deal went sour.
Producer
NES Member
I can't believe this thread is still going.
You all could have been at Mansfield with us today eating tasty burgers, hot dogs and sausages and blasting through thousands of rounds of ammo on what turned out to be a beautiful day.
+1
Unsubscribe from the thread. I just did. Gonna be a waste of time.
I didnt mean to imply that all people who get a restraining order deserve it.
My point was he had a AD in which he was wounded and the police responded AND also a restraining order ! Thats two strikes and in most places in Mass your done for as far as a LTC .
I understand that the court system in Mass is as messed up as our politicians.
My point was he had a AD in which he was wounded and the police responded AND also a restraining order ! Thats two strikes and in most places in Mass your done for as far as a LTC .
I understand that the court system in Mass is as messed up as our politicians.
Well... I just got back from a fine day of shooting my "bombs"... I mean "cartridges" which I guess are the same in some peoples' minds.
One thing to put to thought. If you believe (not as I do) that individuals have the right to make bombs, say "you" do- and say by some strange misfortune you blow both your hands off and can't work. Who supports your kids and family? Who pays the insurance bills if you weren't insured of improperly insured? Answer: We all do. I have a problem with this.
Now you might want to say that the same could happen with a gun or driving your car recklessly. Yes... but society has decided that those are "legal" when properly licensed? And as such I don't want to pay anyones bill for disobeying the law. If you want to blow up things get a license and proper training.
I guess this is where pure libertarian views bother me.. because in this world anyway... society bears a big chunk of the "burden". Well we could be harsh and say... you can do what you want... but if you blow your hands off- too bad. Deal with it, bleed to death, but don't try to use my tax dollar to fix it, or pump up insurance premiums for your stupid acts.
See... it's really NOT about just what every individual wants in our society... unless they are REALLY willing to be "individuals".
Of course this is just an example of my viewpoints.
One thing to put to thought. If you believe (not as I do) that individuals have the right to make bombs, say "you" do- and say by some strange misfortune you blow both your hands off and can't work. Who supports your kids and family? Who pays the insurance bills if you weren't insured of improperly insured? Answer: We all do. I have a problem with this.
Now you might want to say that the same could happen with a gun or driving your car recklessly. Yes... but society has decided that those are "legal" when properly licensed? And as such I don't want to pay anyones bill for disobeying the law. If you want to blow up things get a license and proper training.
I guess this is where pure libertarian views bother me.. because in this world anyway... society bears a big chunk of the "burden". Well we could be harsh and say... you can do what you want... but if you blow your hands off- too bad. Deal with it, bleed to death, but don't try to use my tax dollar to fix it, or pump up insurance premiums for your stupid acts.
See... it's really NOT about just what every individual wants in our society... unless they are REALLY willing to be "individuals".
Of course this is just an example of my viewpoints.
I have a problem with that, too. However, it has nothing to do with the pipe bomb for me. It also applies to ND, crackheads, not practicing safe sex, or any large list of things.
I don't want to be forced to pay anyone's bill for anything. Your point?
You must hate smokers, fat people, speeders, etc, then.
I'm really willing to be an "individual".
Hate is a strong word that I won't use. But yes, I do have a slight problem to some degree with these things. There are varying degrees. Going 5mph over the speed limit on the highway is not the same as going 100 mph. Being 350lbs and a smoker is not the same as being 200lbs. I think people should have a right to eat and digest most things... not illegal drugs though for similar reasons. People should take care of themselves and their children but often don't. Society bears the brunt of the burden for the "costs".
I trust YOU are. I think most aren't and will "expect" the government (us) to step in to help.
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