Zero Hour turns in pipe bomb builder

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drgrant

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This thread is responsible for making me stay up too late. I think I am going to go on the porch and smoke that cigar I had been planning on doing since like, oh, about 8 pm...

I just finished a CAO MX maduro [smile] and I think Jim did the right thing, he will still get my business when I can. SPG

I think I had some of those MX's before, an interesting cigar.... now I am
about to light up a Rocky Patel vigilante.... with a nice cup of PEETS coffee to go with it. (yes, its fully caff, and I am crazy. )

Edit: You know you're an NES addict, when you go out to the car in the middle of a rainstorm to get your laptop just so you can get on the board while smoking. [laugh]


-Mike
 
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drgrant

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I wonder if the Sigma qualifies as an "infernal device"

For as much as I despise the SMEGMA I think there are worse guns to
be had.... surely a bryco or jennings would qualify as an infernal devices. [laugh]

-Mike
 

KMaurer

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I' sort of mixed on this one. If I thought the kid presented a real danger to himself or anybody else, I'd turn him in. Otherwise, I'm not too sure. The statute of limitations probably ran out some time around the time Nixon got his walking papers, but I took chemistry outside the classroom very, very seriously when I was a kid. Way, way beyond mailboxes.

Ken
 
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I have read this thread and it really makes me sick. I used to hold a lot of you in high regards about what happened but you are growing into fanatics. Imagine what would happen if the anti's came here and read this and let it leek out? Remember, this is not in the Member's section where there is some sense of privacy but rather in the General Discussion thread.

Martlett, I left a negative point for you because of the pure childish way you behaved throughout most of the thread. I left only one negative rep point and only that.

We live in a time when the govt and the brady bunch are looking for ANY reaosn to yank our rights away and we put on a thread like this.

Ban me, neg rep me, I honestly don't care but some of you are very much turning into the people we do not want to see on the news trying to spin gun owners in a responsible light. I have said this before, and I will say it again. Each and EVERYONE of us is an ambassador to the people who do not know many gun owners. We do not have the luxury of lapses of reason or judgment. We try and portray ourselves as average LAW ABIDING citizens. This post does not show us in that kind of light.

You only have one shot at a first impression, how many did we completely screw up because of a thread like this in the open forum?
 
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I' sort of mixed on this one. If I thought the kid presented a real danger to himself or anybody else, I'd turn him in. Otherwise, I'm not too sure. The statute of limitations probably ran out some time around the time Nixon got his walking papers, but I took chemistry outside the classroom very, very seriously when I was a kid. Way, way beyond mailboxes.

Only thing I ever did that was even remotely close to this was back when I was 6-7. I built model rockets and flew them (the ones they sell at hobby stores, etc). Well, one 4th of July, we were going out to the Potomac (under the flightpath onto Washington National Airport's main runway) and I wanted to see if a metal rocket would work, as the ones I had were cardboard and plastic. So I wrapped aluminum foil around one of the engines into a rough tube shape, loaded it with the flame resistant wadding, etc, and wrapped the top of it into a tip, then attached four useless fins to it for looks. Launched it on the bank of the Potomac (long before 9/11, the police couldn't care less, and there's nothing illegal about it anyway, model rockets are legal just about everywhere). Turns out I forgot one thing. The engine I was using was one o the standard engines instead of a lower stage engine. That means that, once the fuel was exhausted, a small charge at the top would blow the wadding and the parachute out for recovery of the model rocket. As it turned out, I forgot all about this, and the rocket had no provision for the nose popping off. So, it took off, heavy because it was wrapped in multiple layers of foil, pointed slightly towards the river since my dad figured this thing would only be good for one flight anyway. Yep. The charge fired at the right time and blew the thing into three flaming pieces, one barely missing a nice, expensive-looking large boat on the Potomac. No harm done. Police saw it and basically just shrugged it off. I can't imagine what the response would be today to that sort of thing, especially on the Fourth under a major airport flightpath.

That's the last time I ever home-built a model rocket.
 

drgrant

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We try and portray ourselves as average LAW ABIDING citizens. This post does not show us in that kind of light.

Did anyone here suggesting that the law is (or might be) absurd suggest actually breaking the law? I didn't see that, perhaps I missed something. Keep in mind that as this thread progressed, it's spurned off into two sub-threads of
sort...

-The activities of this guy in question

-Whether or not the act of building the devices should or shouldn't be illegal,
etc.

Many of us (myself included) would not build these devices, because it's against the law. That doesn't mean, however, that someone isn't allowed to say that the law is dumb or doesn't accomplish anything. Does that make us "radicals" for suggesting that? IMO one can still be "law abiding" but not agree with the law.

Hell, if anything, the fact that this incident occured at all is a testament to the fact that most prohibition-based laws don't really stop the targeted behavior.

FWIW, the "target audience" you speak of, would also be offended upon reading a thread where someone suggests that VT style gun laws (eg, NO
LAW!) should be the "law of the land" but somehow, that's OK to talk about, despite the fact that the same target audience would still consider
us "radical" for mentioning that. [thinking]

Of course, this all goes back to the "what is considered reasonable regulation" argument. I think some of the posts here by libertarians and not, alike, were to spurn some thoughtful discussion about that issue..... I think it's important to have serious discussions about these kinds of things- to get people to stop falling pray to "gut media brainwashed reaction" and seriously think about laws and their legitimacy, application, and enforcement. If we don't question so called "conventional wisdom" once in awhile, how do we know whether or not it's really sound? Part of the reason the government has gotten away with boning the crap out of people's freedoms is because it and the media have managed to brainwash people into accepting THEIR groupthink about issues and short circuited people's individual thought, etc. Government, media, and other forces HATE the curse of the individual because whenpeople think freely, it makes their realm less profitable overall. (Course "profit takes different forms- for the government its power and empire building, for media it's about making stories that "sell" or enforcing the whims of the mahogany row types that run the outlets...) These entities hate individual freedom, choice, etc, because it screws up their agendas.

I guess I'm not as paranoid as some are about media casting aspersions, etc.... or antis, for that matter. F*ck em. Even if you refrain from saying anything supposedly "radical" they have this nasty habit of taking even the most benign statements, twisting them, and casting us as "radicals" anyways.... so we might as well be able to say what we feel instead of beating around the bush.

FWIW I won't neg you, and I doubt most of the posters you disagree with would, either. IMO it's childish to neg someone for a difference in
opinion.

-Mike
 
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For those of you that are comparing pipe-bombs to guns, get a friggin life. Pipe-bombs and guns have only one thing in common, gunpowder. Whens the last time you thought you needed a pipe-bomb to protect your self or house? Whens the last time you needed to conceal a pipe-bomb because you thought you were traveling through a unsafe area?


Congratulations. You just adopted the mindset of antis and Fudds. "Why do you need an AR to hunt"?
 
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Det cord and trees is where the fun is at. Nothing says massive deforestation like good old American det cord. [smile]

Guys I don't know how you can be against any American wanting to blow shit up on his own property when it doesn't harm anyone.

+1 to that. They used it to clear trees when I was a Hot Shot out west.

This thread is responsible for making me stay up too late. I think I am going to go on the porch and smoke that cigar I had been planning on doing since like, oh, about 8 pm... [laugh]

-Mike

I bailed on my own thread and went to sleep.
 
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There's a hard limit on the number of reps you can give in a 24 hour period. I think it was 20. Definitely not 50 like Martlet intimated.

PS: I was going to +1 you on that post, but I can't because of the aforementioned limit. Oh, well.

Certainly more than 20, unless you had help.
 
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I' sort of mixed on this one. If I thought the kid presented a real danger to himself or anybody else, I'd turn him in. Otherwise, I'm not too sure. The statute of limitations probably ran out some time around the time Nixon got his walking papers, but I took chemistry outside the classroom very, very seriously when I was a kid. Way, way beyond mailboxes.

Ken

If they thought he was a danger to himself and others with a pipe bomb, why not a gun?
 
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Martlett, I left a negative point for you because of the pure childish way you behaved throughout most of the thread. I left only one negative rep point and only that.

Childish? Give me an example. I laid out my opinion, then defended it. What specifically was childish?
 

Garys

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With quality fuse and consistant burn rate you should be able to calculate the proper length in regards to distance needed to travel to be out of the kill zone. [grin]

Besides you really only need to run faster than the guy directly behind you. [laugh]

Franz Liebkind: Gentlemen. Ve have here a technical problem. Hmm? I do not know if vat ve have here is ze quick burning fuse or ze slow buring fuse. Ja, ja, I must find zis out.
[snips dynamite fuse]
Franz Liebkind: Zis is critical.
[lights fuse with match]
Franz Liebkind: Ha ha ha, ja ja, you see zis? You see zis here vat I have told you? Yeah, zis is an example of smartness here. I have said that zis is ze quick fuse. Huh? And zis IS ze quick fuse.
[pause]
All: THE QUICK FUSE!
[explosion]
 

Mass-diver

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Rought one here. I'm sure Jim was thinking that if this guy later does some damage with pipe bombs it could come back to bite him the ass; espically if the word got out after the fact that he bragged about bomb making to the local gun store owner.

I don't like rats, but in this case I don't see how a gun store owner can let this one slide. I would not risk my buisness over some a**h*** with a big enough mouth to come and brag about illegal activity. Jim would have no duty to turn in a speeder or a guy he saw smoking pot on the street, but when you go into his store and start opening your mouth about illegal weapons/bombs, I think it's reasonable to assume that he will turn you in and not risk his buisness.
 
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Wow what a thread. Anyone interested in a Martlet for President social group?

I would start one for Derek too but vellnueve might give me a -1 for ass kissing.[wink]

Okay back to the bomb factory...
 

FPrice

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So if I loaned you my car and you found an unsecured shotgun shell under the seat, you'd turn me in? Good to know.

There is a world of difference between a bunch of pipe bombs being made by an admitted drunk and a single unsecured shotgun shell left in a friend's car.

I wish that you could understand this.
 

Mass-diver

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Ugg....I just read the today's article in Globe, it makes it seem that Jim only turned him over a disagreement in the price of a ATV that Jim was selling.
 
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There is a world of difference between a bunch of pipe bombs being made by an admitted drunk and a single unsecured shotgun shell left in a friend's car.

I wish that you could understand this.

There were drunks with guns posting here last night. Good thing Jim didn't know.

Ugg....I just read the today's article in Globe, it makes it seem that Jim only turned him over a disagreement in the price of a ATV that Jim was selling.

Maybe he did. He's had no problems with ANYONE to our knowledge, except for an RO that we know nothing about, and was later rescinded.
 
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Garys

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Ugg....I just read the today's article in Globe, it makes it seem that Jim only turned him over a disagreement in the price of a ATV that Jim was selling.

The Globe can't have anyone thinking an evil gun dealer might do something because he saw a threat to public safety. Just wouldn't fit the narrative. I'm sure they really wanted to spin it so that it looked like Jim was involved in the act.

Gary
 

FPrice

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Creedon said the inquiry began when an Easton gun dealer became angry with Ambrose when the two men could not agree on a price for a child-sized all-terrain vehicle Ambrose was selling.

Creedon is Ambroses' lawyer so any statement like this will have to be taken with a large bag of salt.
 
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Creedon is Ambroses' lawyer so any statement like this will have to be taken with a large bag of salt.

He was saying it on the news last night, too. Who knows.

It is funny how people were quick to attach themselves to "he's a drunk", then denounce this. Each carried equal evidence.
 
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It is funny how people were quick to attach themselves to "he's a drunk", then denounce this. Each carried equal evidence.

I don't think most people were saying the guy was a drunk, they were saying he was bragging about drinking inappropriately.

(btw, I can't believe this thread was going all night long. Don't you people ever sleep?)
 

jcr

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I don't know if I have the time to make it all the way through this thread, so I might be redundant here. If this point has already been made, sorry.

Many threads on this forum mock the media with its inaccuracy on reporting gun events.

I assume that a media report of a "pipe bomb" is as close to truth as when I see a report of an "assault weapon".

If the guy had materials to make some fireworks, the media would report it as pipe bombs, and amzingly to me, this forum adopted the "pipe bomb" formulation, and some have extended it to IEDs -- just to make sure we knew this was super illegal.

--

The TV showed, from a helicopter, the destruction of some of the devices. From what I saw, it looked like they were blowing up some dud inch-and-a-halfers. I'm sure the squad was having fun getting to do their stuff, but it looked more of a show than a threat.

We don't even know what the explosive was, or if it needed to be mixed whether only the pre-cursors were on site. The guy might have three dozen pieces of 1/2 PVC and some chemicals. I know if that's all it was, the media (and the police) would be reporting it as pipe bombs anyway.
 

JonJ

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Defense attorney John Creedon said after the arraignment that there was no evidence to suggest that his client was “psychotic or threatened to kill anyone.” Creedon described the explosives as a hobby for the 41-year-old landscaper who “is interested in chemistry and has been building various types of pipe bombs since his high school years.
Reminder to self: Never consider hiring this ding-dong.
I can't wait to see how this defense works out[thinking]
 
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Thanks guys! Last night I night I had a dream I was in my car with my wife throwing out grenades and watching them blow up. I distinctly remember I was freaked out that someone would come by and try to pick it up before it went off. My mind in f***ed and so is this thread.
 
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I think alot of people think that this is America and they can do any thing they want to, yup that's why are prisons are full. You can do anything you want illegal until you get caught.
 
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i suppose it is harmless that this guy is making bombs, since he hasn't yet blown anyone up- however-

they are also ready to use and stored with toys in a garage...

i can't remember ever getting drunk, loading our guns storing them in a garage next to children's toys.

i would expect to be arrested if we were that negligent.

this guy deserves a flogging. what an a$$hat.
 
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Reminder to self: Never consider hiring this ding-dong.
I can't wait to see how this defense works out[thinking]

As he has been building bombs for years without any sign the DA was going to prosecute, they should be estopped from doing so now. He relied on the police's unwillingness to arrest him throughout the years and, as such, assumed what he was doing was all but condoned by the police and the local DA.

Maybe that is where his lawyer is going.
 

calsdad

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If anything, this makes me more inclined to buy something from ZHA. Ammo or something and take the opportunity to shake Jim's hand.

So, if this guy was building these bombs and happened to mention to Jim that he planned to use one to kill his wife or an ex boss, would Jim still be a rat for calling the police? How about if they guy told Jim he was making full auto guns in his garage and was going to sell them to people?

Is it OK to disregard all laws that we don't like?

Gary

This is a hard one to call. I tend to side with Martlett on this one - because he does have a point. There was a time in this country when nobody would have thought twice about somebody who like to have fun with explosives every now and then - until they hurt somebody. There is nothing in any of the articles I have read on this incident that say anything about this guy wanting to hurt people or having hurt people.

If you know about MA law then the restraining order from the girlfriend thing doesn't mean much. Probably any one of us here on this forum would qualify as somebody who would easily get a restraining order taken out on them - simply for the fact we own guns.

While it is true that building pipe bombs is usually not seen by the vast majority of people as a socially redeeming occupation - listen to what Martlett is saying: NEITHER ARE OWNING GUNS.

Is it ok to disregard the laws we don't like? YES IT IS in some cases.

How far do you want to carry this obey all the laws crap? This country was founded on breaking laws. If the common sense patriots who fought for, died for, and laid down a Constitution for this country had lived by the " obey all the laws even if you don't like them" creed that seems to infect a great many people in this country today - then we wouldn't even be living in this country - we would be living in a territory of the English empire.

The only law you should obey is the law of common sense and morality. Should the guy go to jail because he was building explosives in a suburban neighborhood and he could have blown up the house and hurt somebody? Probably. Should he go to jail as a threat to society and a potential mass murderer - NO - not until he proves that he is. Until then he is just some guy who likes to blow shit up.
 

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Just to add to this thread. I admit, I do occasionally get "drunk and make booms."

Its called a stink bomb which is made from excess gas. Clear out a room faster then tear gas from a swat team.
 
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