You're asleep in bed and......

drgrant

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Normally an HK USPc .45 .

If I have time to get to the safe (across the room):

Rem 870 Marine Magnum
 

RKG

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All within arm's reach:
Pistol;
Maglite;
Button that turns on all downstairs (and outdoors) lights;
Button that trips panic alarm to PD;
Nextel that follows up alarm;
MTS2000; and
Bright green tennis ball with a piece of wire through it to which is attached a key that opens any perimeter door.
 
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They would have to walk by her bowl. Nobody screws with her food [smile]

If they are smart enough to feed her, they can have anything and she will fetch it.
My wife and I are now rolling on the floor in hyserics with that answer
But he/she is quite cute
 
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How'd I forget Hagar the Horrible:

Pistolgrips002.jpg


'Cuz if 8 rounds of 00 buckshot don't solve the problem, it's time to break orbit and nuke it from space...
 

SKS Ray

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The Glock 23 rests on the nightstand within arms reach. That'd probably be the first thing I grab on short notice. If I have time (which takes under a minute) I'd get the Mossberg out of the wall mount Loc Box.
 

Chuck

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Carry gun is a Glock26, it's always loaded and ready

+1. In electronic safe in the closet with a combo I've tested I can do by feel. Blindingly bright flashlight in bedside table.

But that's only necessary if they don't wake up sleepy head
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-= chuck
 
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J

Jose

I have a question for you guys with those stock-less shotguns.

Honestly, how controllable are those things without a stock when shooting loads that are proven manstoppers?

How in the hell can you aim one of those things effectively? Please don't tell me you just point in the general direction of the BG and pull the trigger......

I don't want to turn this into a peeing contest about gun choice. I just want to understand if you guys have tested those types of guns in a scenario where you would have to fire more than once and accurately.

Personally, if I were to keep a shotgun for HD, it would have a conventional stock.
 
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I think the problem with conventional stocks is the manuverability factor when your in the home. Pistol grip, collapsable stock shot guns and pistols can move around doors easier etc. If your backed into a corner I'd say yeah for the big stock. Take aim and let the threat come to you. But if some dirt bag comes in my home with my wife and daughter there, I'm moving towards the threat until everyone is either behind me or out the door.
Also think of the range involved: 10ft?....15ft?.......5 ft.???? Most rooms in a house are not more than 12-14 ft.

That's why I use the Mossy w/ the spec ops collapsable on mine. Sort of the best of both worlds. Shorten it / lengthen it. And the 00 Federal Police loads in my opinion is a 1 shot anything stopper. It won't matter how much cocaine or whatever is in their system, your going down for the count, especially at close range.
Proficiency with a auto/revolver in the middle of the night with my heart pounding is a problem for me and I'm not afraid to say so. I need that shot spread.

Feel free to flame my opinions.
 

SKS Ray

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I have a question for you guys with those stock-less shotguns.

Honestly, how controllable are those things without a stock when shooting loads that are proven manstoppers?

How in the hell can you aim one of those things effectively? Please don't tell me you just point in the general direction of the BG and pull the trigger......

I don't want to turn this into a peeing contest about gun choice. I just want to understand if you guys have tested those types of guns in a scenario where you would have to fire more than once and accurately.

Personally, if I were to keep a shotgun for HD, it would have a conventional stock.


I got mine after watching someone do tactical drills with one at the range where I shoot. At max distances of 10 yards he was able to put slugs and 00 buckshot right where he wanted.
When I shoot mine if I hold it at chest level and hold and lock my right elbow against my body I can control it just fine and get good accuracy at 25 yards. If I tuck back further with my right elbow back so my wrist area is tight against the side of my body I can easily put multiple rounds of 00 buckshot in a 2' x 2' area (the dimensions of the target stands where I shoot) at about 15 to 20 feet. I wouldn't keep one for home defense if I hadn't tried it and practiced using it at close quarters. I usually take it to the range every couple of months just to stay used to shooting it.
I agree with the points Bob made about being able to move around a tight area better with a stockless shotgun. Even though I use the Federal tactical and Winchester Ranger ammo which has lower recoil, I think just about any 00 buck round will put someone down.
Often the noise of a shell being racked into the chamber is enough to send anyone running for their lives.
 
J

Jose

I think the problem with conventional stocks is the manuverability factor when your in the home. Pistol grip, collapsable stock shot guns and pistols can move around doors easier etc. If your backed into a corner I'd say yeah for the big stock. Take aim and let the threat come to you. But if some dirt bag comes in my home with my wife and daughter there, I'm moving towards the threat until everyone is either behind me or out the door.
Also think of the range involved: 10ft?....15ft?.......5 ft.???? Most rooms in a house are not more than 12-14 ft.

That's why I use the Mossy w/ the spec ops collapsable on mine. Sort of the best of both worlds. Shorten it / lengthen it. And the 00 Federal Police loads in my opinion is a 1 shot anything stopper. It won't matter how much cocaine or whatever is in their system, your going down for the count, especially at close range.
Proficiency with a auto/revolver in the middle of the night with my heart pounding is a problem for me and I'm not afraid to say so. I need that shot spread.

Feel free to flame my opinions.

Bob, I understand your choice of a collapsible stock. That's why I have one on my carbine.

I was actually taking about the shotguns with just a pistol grip and nothing to touch your shoulder.

BTW, I agree with Dennis. At 10 to 15 feet a load of buckshot spreads so little it may as well be a solid projectile even with a cylinder choke.

Pattern your shotgun. You will be surprised.
 
J

Jose

Hey, whatever floats your boat. I was just curious, as I have never shot a shotgun like that. I am FAR faster and accurate with an AR at any distance, so that's what I use to defend my home, with an S&W 915 full of +P Speer Gold Dots for backup.

Now about this:

Often the noise of a shell being racked into the chamber is enough to send anyone running for their lives.

l1LQU962UMdQdDpCA5mJf-UMYUMCgtvK0187.jpg
 
J

Jose

For the record, an AR carbine at minimum non-NFA length is a good 2 to 4 inches shorter than a non-NFA shotgun with a stock.
 

Garys

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My only concern with a rifle over a shotgun in a home defense situation is over penetration. Depending on what load you use in a shotgun, it would seem less likely that the rounds would go outside the building.

Gary
 
J

Jose

My only concern with a rifle over a shotgun in a home defense situation is over penetration. Depending on what load you use in a shotgun, it would seem less likely that the rounds would go outside the building.

Gary
That's true, but I am not willing to give up the control and ultra fast follow ups of a carbine.

Inside a house, ANY load that is a manstopper (including 00 buckshot) is going to penetrate five or six sheets of drywall. So get your loved ones behind you or don't miss.
 

SKS Ray

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Hey, whatever floats your boat. I was just curious, as I have never shot a shotgun like that. I am FAR faster and accurate with an AR at any distance, so that's what I use to defend my home, with an S&W 915 full of +P Speer Gold Dots for backup.

Now about this:



l1LQU962UMdQdDpCA5mJf-UMYUMCgtvK0187.jpg


Can't argue the facts. Heres some more Not This Shit Again stuff... Criminals prefer un-armed victims.[smile]
 

Len-2A Training

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The debate about over-penetration is an ongoing thing.

Reference info on why the US Gov't determined that .223 is LESS likely to over-penetrate in a house (using specific ammo) was posted on NES within the past few weeks IIRC.

Firing a shotgun any other way than with the stock firmly planted in your shoulder is ABUSIVE treatment! BTDT . . . one year our PD had us fire the shotguns (18" pump with stock) by holding it against our ribcage (between your arm and side) . . . the bruises took ~2 weeks to go away (this was with 00-buck and slugs).

Shotguns (even with bird-shot) at 10-15' have almost no spread and thus you damn well better AIM that thing or the biggest slug "ain't gonna put the BG down"! Stockless shotguns certainly will NOT help your aim!
 
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Pilgrim and Len I stand corrected on the spread comment but I would like to try it with standard 00-buck and a 18.5 barrel. I seem to remember the spread being more pronounced.
 
J

Jose

Len, I no longer debate why I choose a 223 semi auto carbine to defend my home with.

It is simply the weapon I am most proficient with. With it in my hands, I WILL prevail.

Simple as that.
 
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Len-2A Training

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Jose, I agree with your choice 100%. A nice carbine with collapsible stock (meaning pre-ban for PRM) is an excellent home defense tool with the right ammo.
 
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If I was somewhere I wasn't supposed to be and I heard that noise, I certainly wouldn't hang around.

+1

I know on the Box o' Truth he mentions how when he was at the range, no one lost control of their bowls when he racked the slide. Of course, he was at a shooting range. Much different to hear that sound when you are somewhere you shouldn't be doing something you shouldn't be.
 
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+1

I know on the Box o' Truth he mentions how when he was at the range, no one lost control of their bowls when he racked the slide. Of course, he was at a shooting range. Much different to hear that sound when you are somewhere you shouldn't be doing something you shouldn't be.

+1 to that. Its hard to be fearful when you're on the safe side of the firing line. And definetly if I was downrange changing my targets and I heard somebody rack a shell into the chamber I'd be running pretty fast.

Still you also won't find me breaking into somebody's house, and you won't find me twisted on drugs (or in heavy withdrawal from them) Those are big factors in how rational a goblin behaves, and while a rational person may Sh*& their pants and run at the sound of a slide being racked, and irrational one cannot be predicted.

So if the pump scares them, that's good. But if it doesn't being prepared to use said shotgun (and it being loaded with a load that will stop a man) is even better.

-Weer'd Beard
 
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