"Your car's not going anywhere.....I'll slice your tires."

[Bonesinium]

I'd be willing to bet if you stopped and the just proceeded in the way ochmude described, they'd call local law endorcement and have them pull you over. It seems based on videos of people at these checkpoints that lawful non-compliance is often met with local law enforcement being called if BP wants to force an issue. With that said I haven't seen that specifically been attempted so who knows.

 

[ochmude]

I'd be willing to bet if you stopped and the just proceeded in the way ochmude described, they'd call local law endorcement and have them pull you over. It seems based on videos of people at these checkpoints that lawful non-compliance is often met with local law enforcement being called if BP wants to force an issue. With that said I haven't seen that specifically been attempted so who knows.

I think the very first person to attempt it would just end up getting their tires spiked within a few feet of forward motion (there's pretty much always another agent just past the stopping point who's holding a stop stick or spike strips). But if a lot of people do it in an organized fashion, I honestly think the agency would fold it's hand to a degree. The agency very much desires to avoid situations that might end up in court and result in negative legal precedent, negative from the perspective of the agency I mean. Riley v. California is a very good example of that. Much butthurt came about after that decision. It was entertaining to watch.

 

[Ringworm]

All checkpoints are illegal. IDGAF what badge is in charge of the checkpoint, they deserve to get run over.

 

[jhblaze1]

All checkpoints are illegal. IDGAF what badge is in charge of the checkpoint, they deserve to get run over.

good luck with that.

 

[Bonesinium]

I think the very first person to attempt it would just end up getting their tires spiked within a few feet of forward motion (there's pretty much always another agent just past the stopping point who's holding a stop stick or spike strips).

That being the case your are probably right.

But if a lot of people do it in an organized fashion, I honestly think the agency would fold it's hand to a degree. The agency very much desires to avoid situations that might end up in court and result in negative legal precedent, negative from the perspective of the agency I mean. Riley v. California is a very good example of that. Much butthurt came about after that decision. It was entertaining to watch.

Isn't it sad how cases upholding the constitution are seen as negative by the LE community and makes many people in it angry they have to do things like get a warrant? I find that sad. And telling.

 

[Palladin]

All of New England is a checkpoint

 

[Coyote33]

I think the very first person to attempt it would just end up getting their tires spiked within a few feet of forward motion (there's pretty much always another agent just past the stopping point who's holding a stop stick or spike strips). But if a lot of people do it in an organized fashion, I honestly think the agency would fold it's hand to a degree. The agency very much desires to avoid situations that might end up in court and result in negative legal precedent, negative from the perspective of the agency I mean. Riley v. California is a very good example of that. Much butthurt came about after that decision. It was entertaining to watch.

Thanks for the feedback. I guess this is where I was hoping someone would fill in the blanks. If you do it alone, you're doomed. If you get 20 or 50 or 100 others to do it, you stand a chance.

 

[shadowr434]

The treatment this woman receives just disgusts me. The guy needs a 45 caliber enema in my opinion. This shit of border checks no where near the border has got to stop.

 

[Coyote33]

I hope they don't do this anywhere near Saratoga Springs. Going to a college graduation up that way this weekend.

 

[KBCraig]

Legally, you are required to stop because there is always a stop sign at the checkpoint. Following that, you legally are prohibited from exceeding the speed limit as you drive away (18 USC 758). I'm genuinely curious what would happen if significant numbers of people started to approach checkpoints, slow to a complete stop, ignore the agent at primary inspection, and then proceed safely forward at just under the posted limit. I'm not personally aware of any law that would be violated in that instance. I know 18 USC 111 has been used successfully in the past under the 5th Circuit, but that charge definitely wouldn't stick in the 9th Circuit.

And just FYI, I inquired about this exact scenario when I was going through the academy. While studying the "high speed flight" law in my Applied Authorities class, I asked my instructor, who was a CBP lawyer, what if someone just drives away from you while you're working the checkpoint, but they don't exceed the speed limit. He shrugged his shoulders and said, "Good question." This from a lawyer employed by the CBP Office of Chief Counsel.

Various state laws come into play. As you know, some states recognize USBP as law enforcement, and others don't.

In Texas, outside of their CBP boundaries, they have no authority. They're neither "peace officers" nor "special agents" under Texas law. No matter how many flashing lights they display, they're not driving "emergency vehicles" as defined in Texas statute, so drivers aren't obliged to yield.

I haven't found any solid answers in NH law. Drivers must yield to "emergency vehicles", but I don't see the term defined. Neither NHSP nor the Swanton District of CBP would give an answer when I asked for a cite to USBP vehicles to conduct a traffic stop outside the limits of a fixed or temporary checkpoint. I asked back when a video surfaced of a dad and his young son being treated very poorly by a USBP agent who pulled them over on Route 3 in Pittsburg, because they had (Michigan, I think) plates.

 

[weekendracer]

Various state laws come into play. As you know, some states recognize USBP as law enforcement, and others don't.

In Texas, outside of their CBP boundaries, they have no authority. They're neither "peace officers" nor "special agents" under Texas law. No matter how many flashing lights they display, they're not driving "emergency vehicles" as defined in Texas statute, so drivers aren't obliged to yield.

I haven't found any solid answers in NH law. Drivers must yield to "emergency vehicles", but I don't see the term defined. Neither NHSP nor the Swanton District of CBP would give an answer when I asked for a cite to USBP vehicles to conduct a traffic stop outside the limits of a fixed or temporary checkpoint. I asked back when a video surfaced of a dad and his young son being treated very poorly by a USBP agent who pulled them over on Route 3 in Pittsburg, because they had (Michigan, I think) plates.

Here's a pretty basic display of the authorities. The power to board and search is not limited by state statute in any state. The power to stop is an implied authority by the SCOTUS. Why it's not actually in the law is beyond me, but I'm not as smart as a politician. Limitations on these authorities changes depending on distance from a physical border.

INA § 235(d)(1) Board and search authority.

https://quizlet.com/4440659/ina-287235-usc-19-roving-patrol-authorities-021511-flash-cards/

 

[Bonesinium]

Here's a pretty basic display of the authorities. The power to board and search is not limited by state statute in any state. The power to stop is an implied authority by the SCOTUS.

Implied authority by The Supreme Court? Is that how it works? SCOTUS implies things and their implications give you authority?

 

[weekendracer]

Implied authority by The Supreme Court? Is that how it works? SCOTUS implies things and their implications give you authority?

Ok, the authority to board and search is given by statute. Do you really expect something out of the wild west, or Mad Max, where trucks pull alongside a moving vehicle and people jump across? I can't find the case at the moment, so it might not be a court ruling, but another statute or regulation. I'm tired, I'll look into it later. It's been a long time since I looked for this specific cite.

 

[Bonesinium]

Check out this crazy story involving an off duty border patrol agent in NY. What the actual ****?!?

http://www.wwnytv.com/news/local/Fe...t-About-Accident-Scene-Assault-363163771.html

 

[wahsben]

David Codrea has his blog the War on Guns and he has a section called The Only Ones that lists things like this. I'm not sure if it gives all the information broken down as you are asking but it is a list of incidents.

Tick tock, tick tock.

I wonder if there is a web site, keeping a list of these, with those harmed, those doing the harming, dates and places. I'd like to see a graph of the rate of these incidents. It might just be me, but it sounds like it is increasing lately.

Also a web site with a map and timeline of purchases of MRAPS, Bearcats, and those million round ammo purchases.

 

[diatribe]

I would like to see a case where someone used their CCW to defend themselves from a Leo who was attacking them with a taser. I would love to be juror in that case.

 

[TayNinh_66]

Customs and Border Patrol have almost unlimited powers to detain and search people and vehicles. Read http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/homesec/RL31826.pdf.

In the video, it appears as though the cop was at a minimum rude, obnoxious, arrogant and intimidating. Not only when he said he'd slash her tires but when he told her to step to the other side of the car. There did not appear to be any reason for that command. But once he put his hand on her, and she resisted, it was game over.

If she files a complaint, he might receive 1 hour of remedial training. He has probably filed a criminal complaint charging her with A&B and resisting arrest and she will receive a $10,000 bill from her attorney.

You can refuse to give them any information, and they can detain you for 6 hours while they pull your tires off. The 4th amendment does not exist within 25 miles of the border.

 

[the_shootist]

Customs and Border Patrol have almost unlimited powers to detain and search people and vehicles. Read http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/homesec/RL31826.pdf.

In the video, it appears as though the cop was at a minimum rude, obnoxious, arrogant and intimidating. Not only when he said he'd slash her tires but when he told her to step to the other side of the car. There did not appear to be any reason for that command. But once he put his hand on her, and she resisted, it was game over.

If she files a complaint, he might receive 1 hour of remedial training. He has probably filed a criminal complaint charging her with A&B and resisting arrest and she will receive a $10,000 bill from her attorney.

You can refuse to give them any information, and they can detain you for 6 hours while they pull your tires off. The 4th amendment does not exist within 25 miles of the border.

Such a farking mess

 

[ColdDayInHell]

Be careful what you slice

 

[the_shootist]

Be careful what you slice

I loved that one when it came out. Talk about Karma!

 

[shadowr434]

Customs and Border Patrol have almost unlimited powers to detain and search people and vehicles. Read http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/homesec/RL31826.pdf.

In the video, it appears as though the cop was at a minimum rude, obnoxious, arrogant and intimidating. Not only when he said he'd slash her tires but when he told her to step to the other side of the car. There did not appear to be any reason for that command. But once he put his hand on her, and she resisted, it was game over.

If she files a complaint, he might receive 1 hour of remedial training. He has probably filed a criminal complaint charging her with A&B and resisting arrest and she will receive a $10,000 bill from her attorney.

You can refuse to give them any information, and they can detain you for 6 hours while they pull your tires off. The 4th amendment does not exist within 25 miles of the border.

Seems to me that if your a citizen, that needs to be changed. Location does not void any parts of your constitutional rights.

 

[Palladin]

Check out this crazy story involving an off duty border patrol agent in NY. What the actual ****?!?

http://www.wwnytv.com/news/local/Fe...t-About-Accident-Scene-Assault-363163771.html

Wife was lying in the middle of the road, at night. Run over and killed...no charges against driver. These people stop to help, husband on scene, beats the shit out of them. Nothing to do with Border Patrol, he was off duty

- - - Updated - - -

You can refuse to give them any information, and they can detain you for 6 hours while they pull your tires off. The 4th amendment does not exist within 25 miles of the border.

It's actually within 100 miles of the border

 

[JoeT]

didn't the SC recently rule that you can not be detained for "more than 10 minutes" (or something like that?)

or does that not apply within the 100 miles

 

[TayNinh_66]

didn't the SC recently rule that you can not be detained for "more than 10 minutes" (or something like that?)
or does that not apply within the 100 miles

Does not apply to Customs/Border Patrol. A "prolonged detention" may become an unreasonable seizure but different circuit courts have different opinions on definition of prolonged. It appears as though more than 4-6 hours would be considered prolonged in some circuits.

 

[Coyote33]

didn't the SC recently rule that you can not be detained for "more than 10 minutes" (or something like that?)

or does that not apply within the 100 miles

Wait, they are beating people up and detaining them, but NOT stopping ILLEGAL ALIENS or TERRORISTS? What is wrong here, people? And more importantly, how does this get fixed, legally and permanently?

 

[KBCraig]

Seems to me that if your a citizen, that needs to be changed. Location does not void any parts of your constitutional rights.

Citizenship doesn't determine rights. The constitution is a list of limited and enumerated government authority, not a list of "rights" that government allows people to have.

When 4A says no to unreasonable searches and seizures, it applies to all government, and benefits all people, citizens or not.

 

[Oldarmy]

Yup, abusing power, that's what we all can count on now. There are good cops, but that are some nasty pigs.

Have to disagree. The fact that there are nasty pigs proves there are no good cops.

 

[noxin]

Have to disagree. The fact that there are nasty pigs proves there are no good cops.

Any good cop that protects or sits idly by while there are still bad cops in their department loses their good cop status automatically.

 

[edseas2]

She looked like she was trying to apply her recent law school education to a real world situation. Everyone's different but it might be better to "suck up and take it" and get plate
numbers etc. for use later on if she wants to pursue things legally. Imho it is better to follow instructions than to get tased, taken down, cuffed and stuffed. She could always have
filed a complaint later, imho.

 

[noxin]

She looked like she was trying to apply her recent law school education to a real world situation. Everyone's different but it might be better to "suck up and take it" and get plate
numbers etc. for use later on if she wants to pursue things legally. Imho it is better to follow instructions than to get tased, taken down, cuffed and stuffed. She could always have
filed a complaint later, imho.

Considering the complete lack of repercussions for most LEOs in this situation, is that really the best response? The ones abusing the public aren't going to see any fall out and are going to get more brazen and hostile.