You’re at a mass shooting event armed. What do you do?

I would add, if distance from threat is substantial and you have your mental wits about you, be the beacon and assist others to leave the area. You can save just as many lives by getting people moving as rushing an embedded shooter.

Fight or flight is a thing, but some people lock up/shut down in extreme situations. Something that rarely gets mentioned, someone that looks in control calling out commands will get some people moving in the right direction. If the shooter is North of you, direct people to the Southern exits. Lower the body count without putting yourself at direct risk.
 
I don't have a "duty to keep good societal order."

I have a duty to keep my family from dying.

That's as far as it goes for me. You can disagree, but you don't get to decide for me. "Order" is what cops do. Want to keep order? Go be a cop.
I'm not deciding for you. All I'm pointing out is the difference between states and laws that favor good people and do not protect criminals. One does not have to be a sworn officer to protect the public.

Think about this situation: YOUR CHILD OR WIFE OR OTHER LOVED ONE, is saved by an armed stranger from being shot to death by a lunatic. Would you as a juror vote to convict said armed stranger?

If not, WHY NOT? Because that armed stranger came to the immediate aid of others who were in dire need of armed assistance to fend off an armed lunatic who was randomly murdering people.

"Order" is what every citizen has a moral, ethical and legal duty to uphold, whether armed or not. When armed, that gives both the individual and society at large the benefit of keeping the criminal element in society at bay, by suppressing their actions in public.

You do as you see fit and I do not fault you or anyone else for it but realize that a good majority of this country is NOT run the way Massachusetts is run and people actually enjoy their freedoms and the responsibilities that those freedoms entail.
 
"Order" is what every citizen has a moral, ethical and legal duty to uphold, whether armed or not. When armed, that gives both the individual and society at large the benefit of keeping the criminal element in society at bay, by suppressing their actions in public.

You do as you see fit and I do not fault you or anyone else for it but realize that a good majority of this country is NOT run the way Massachusetts is run and people actually enjoy their freedoms and the responsibilities that those freedoms entail.

I'm not from Massachusetts. I didn't grow up here and my worldview wasn't shaped here. I believe in individual accountability, but I don't live in a state that does. I see no problem in facing up to that reality. I don't live in "should-world." I live in reality.

And you're ducking one of the concerns brought up: how will you feel when you get capped by the cops because they don't know you're not a bad guy? Who cares for your family after the Public Servants have killed you? What good have you done for the people you bear primary responsibility toward?
 
What are the possible ways this could end if I engage the shooter?

1. I am successful and kill the shooter and then I get killed by the police
2. I am successful and kill the shooter and then I get arrested and lose my LTC and guns and become a PP.
3. I engage and both the shooter and I are killed
4. I engage and am not successful at all and I am killed.
5. I engage and kill or wound the shooter but end up getting wounded myself and am arrested and lose my LTC and guns and become a PP.

Anyway, at the very least it looks like it could cost me a lot of money and probably my physical health and possibly my freedom and lose my LTC and guns and become a PP..

Any success and if it turns out there is a difference in our ethnic backgrounds then I am forever labeled a racist and a murderer on the internet, there are protest and marches outside my house my family is targeted and threatened by the shooters similar ethnic types possibly raping my wife and daughters....

No thank you.

Vote for pro 2A candidates and get your own gun and defend yourself and your children.

Or take your chances and wait for the police to arrive and take several hours to assess the situation before the engage, while the shooter continues to eliminate targets of opportunity.
 
I'm not from Massachusetts. I didn't grow up here and my worldview wasn't shaped here. I believe in individual accountability, but I don't live in a state that does. I see no problem in facing up to that reality. I don't live in "should-world." I live in reality.

And you're ducking one of the concerns brought up: how will you feel when you get capped by the cops because they don't know you're not a bad guy? Who cares for your family after the Public Servants have killed you? What good have you done for the people you bear primary responsibility toward?
I'm not ducking anything.

I know full well that if I had to use my carry piece to subdue a criminal, I would be the next subject of LEOs arriving on scene and would make every effort to convey compliance to their demands.
 
I'm not ducking anything.

I know full well that if I had to use my carry piece to subdue a criminal, I would be the next subject of LEOs arriving on scene and would make every effort to convey compliance to their demands.

Okay.

I just think that for those of us who maintain situational awareness and wargame these types of scenarios, basing your hopes for survival on police decisionmaking rather than your own legs makes little sense in a world where police decisions in recent years have, to put it frankly, stunk.

YMMV. I hope we all get out of whatever happens, alive. But I can't control much. I know that. What I can control? Knowing where the exits are and maintaining proficiency with my weapon. I can also control (somewhat) my loved ones' attitudes and responses.

That's plenty for me.
 
First goal it to make sure I'm safe also my family. So if that is gtfo or hide then that is what we do. Can't aid if youre dead. Once I'm as safe as I can be then assess what is going on. If I'm out of danger then I probably wont put myself back into unless I had to. If I'm still part of the chaos then I do whatever is needed to come out alive on the other end.
 
What are the possible ways this could end if I engage the shooter?

1. I am successful and kill the shooter and then I get killed by the police
2. I am successful and kill the shooter and then I get arrested and lose my LTC and guns and become a PP.
3. I engage and both the shooter and I are killed
4. I engage and am not successful at all and I am killed.
5. I engage and kill or wound the shooter but end up getting wounded myself and am arrested and lose my LTC and guns and become a PP.

Anyway, at the very least it looks like it could cost me a lot of money and probably my physical health and possibly my freedom and lose my LTC and guns and become a PP..

Any success and if it turns out there is a difference in our ethnic backgrounds then I am forever labeled a racist and a murderer on the internet, there are protest and marches outside my house my family is targeted and threatened by the shooters similar ethnic types possibly raping my wife and daughters....

No thank you.

Vote for pro 2A candidates and get your own gun and defend yourself and your children.

Or take your chances and wait for the police to arrive and take several hours to assess the situation before the engage, while the shooter continues to eliminate targets of opportunity.
Is there really NO scenario where you dont end up dead or prohibited? If this happened in MA, played out exactly in every way, footage and all and you end up popping this guys balloon. Is it a guarantee that youre ending up a pp? I know MA sucks but I think this is a little too much
 
Is there really NO scenario where you dont end up dead or prohibited? If this happened in MA, played out exactly in every way, footage and all and you end up popping this guys balloon. Is it a guarantee that youre ending up a pp? I know MA sucks but I think this is a little too much

No, but again, you're then putting yourself in the hands of the po-po/DA.

You can't control what they do, but you can make conclusions based on their demonstrated actions and decisions. Here's my conclusion: I trust neither cops nor DAs.

So, in fleeing the shooter, I suppose I see it as me fleeing the cops, too. Again, maybe that "shouldn't" be where we are as a society, but there it is.
 
I think the question the OP really wants an answer to is:

What would you do if you find yourself in a mass shooting, while visiting a constitutional carry State, that could potentially play against the 2A, the U.S economy is imploding and NES is down for maintenance?
 
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Is there really NO scenario where you dont end up dead or prohibited? If this happened in MA, played out exactly in every way, footage and all and you end up popping this guys balloon. Is it a guarantee that youre ending up a pp? I know MA sucks but I think this is a little too much
Even if there is a scenario where I could not end up dead, wounded or arrested, that is one chance versus all the other ways it could go wrong for me.

Odds are not in my favor.

So the only people I defend is me, my wife and my kids.
And I do not expect any good guy to come to the aid of me or my family.

Not worth the risk to them either.

The system is completely stacked against law abiding citizens.
 
So it seems we have a fair amount of thoughtful folks that will think about it and situational dependent make the call.
My mind says come that time if you're not a pro then it's fight or flight. That simple.
No depends on this, that, or the other.
 
Even if there is a scenario where I could not end up dead, wounded or arrested, that is one chance versus all the other ways it could go wrong for me.

Odds are not in my favor.

So the only people I defend is me, my wife and my kids.
And I do not expect any good guy to come to the aid of me or my family.

Not worth the risk to them either.

The system is completely stacked against law abiding citizens.
Nothing wrong with taking care of your own. Just seems to me to be a bit much to say its a guarantee that youre f*cked.

Id like to have it both ways and engage the shooter and then take off later but leaving the scene pretty much guarantees youre f*cked if they catch up to you, which makes no sense to me. If its a legit shoot, its a legit shoot regardless of what I do after its over.
 
Get you and your loved ones to safety, evade and escape.

If you have cover and can take the shot at the bad guy, do it, but you better be damned sure you are going to get it right the first time because a pistol with 17 rounds and the ability to reload is not going to be a match for someone with a rifle, multiple mags, and body armor intent on doing you harm.
 
With family? GTFO and that's all.

Alone? Probably GTFO but if in the process I get a 100% clear shot I'll take it, but I'm with @Uzi2 - depends on what state. In Mass it will be 100% GTFO no matter what. One of the reasons I want to leave Mass is that I don't feel comfortable doing anything a good Samaritan would do anywhere else. In TN I was first on the scene of a single car wreck and had to pull a drunk with broken ribs and a mangled leg out of a burning vehicle. Nashville PD was cool about not taking my name nor did they record my vehicle license. Same situation in Alabama when I helped a couple EMT's with a patient who was on PCP and beating the sh!t out of them. The 'Bama trooper who finally arrived was cool about taking no info. I don't trust the system here to let me walk away from potential complications from only helping out.
 
Think about this situation: YOUR CHILD OR WIFE OR OTHER LOVED ONE, is saved by an armed stranger from being shot to death by a lunatic. Would you as a juror vote to convict said armed stranger?

This is the most Massachusetts NES comment so far this year. And there have been plenty of other strong contenders [rofl]
 
My ccw is there so i can shoot my way too my truck so i can tac up and get back and eliminate the threat. Cuz i flex internet commando style
 
With family? GTFO and that's all.

Alone? Probably GTFO but if in the process I get a 100% clear shot I'll take it, but I'm with @Uzi2 - depends on what state. In Mass it will be 100% GTFO no matter what. One of the reasons I want to leave Mass is that I don't feel comfortable doing anything a good Samaritan would do anywhere else. In TN I was first on the scene of a single car wreck and had to pull a drunk with broken ribs and a mangled leg out of a burning vehicle. Nashville PD was cool about not taking my name nor did they record my vehicle license. Same situation in Alabama when I helped a couple EMT's with a patient who was on PCP and beating the sh!t out of them. The 'Bama trooper who finally arrived was cool about taking no info. I don't trust the system here to let me walk away from potential complications from only helping out.
Ain't that the truth

I pulled a young lady out of a wreck in ny while some dude stood by.

I brought her over to him sat her down told him to watch her for a second got in my car and bounced

Ain't no body got time for getting jacked up over doing the right thing
 
Leave if I can. Fight if I can not.
However, I would have a hard time watching someone kill women and children if I think I could prevent it.

There are also a ton of variables that could change my course of action. This latest event in Texas occurred at an open air mall.
If I am standing in line at a bank, and a guy charges in yelling "everyone on the ground!", I am going to get down with everybody else. If he starts shooting tellers, and I could stop him, it would not be easy to just watch.
Range to target and what the guy is armed with, also matter. As does who he is shooting at.
Guy shows up at the library and starts shooting girl scouts selling cookies, I might engage.
Guy shows up at the library and starts shooting drag queens reading stories, I might leave and go get some ice cream.
 
Leave if I can. Fight if I can not.
However, I would have a hard time watching someone kill women and children if I think I could prevent it.

There are also a ton of variables that could change my course of action. This latest event in Texas occurred at an open air mall.
If I am standing in line at a bank, and a guy charges in yelling "everyone on the ground!", I am going to get down with everybody else. If he starts shooting tellers, and I could stop him, it would not be easy to just watch.
Range to target and what the guy is armed with, also matter. As does who he is shooting at.
Guy shows up at the library and starts shooting girl scouts selling cookies, I might engage.
Guy shows up at the library and starts shooting drag queens reading stories, I might leave and go get some ice cream.
I’d try to save the drag queens if I had the opportunity. And so would you.
 
If I’m with my kids, I’m running the other way. If I’m alone and not in the immediate vicinity, I’m not sure how I would react. Probably depend of my mood.

If it pops off in front of me, I’m mag dumping into the guy. Probably double tap his ass once he’s down also. Only way to be sure he is no longer a threat.

I’m fairly confident I have better skill and training than the average retard that would do something like this.
 
Odds of being in a mass shooting - very low.

Odds of cops being present as a mass shotting transpires - in most places, very low.

Odds of cops showing up soon after a mass shotting initiates - very good.

If I was unlucky enough to be at a mass shooting and couldn't safely take cover and/or egress, I'd engage to save my life and my loved ones. And then egress with firearms out of sight again and call 911 later. No reason to wait for police to arrive and get shot.

Sure - you have to explain why you departed, but you could always say you were concerned there was a 2nd shooter. There will be witnesses/cams and an investigation that defines who was the perp and who was engaging in self-defense. That said, maybe the cops shoot you later...how to surrender takes some savvy.
 
Get out as fast as possible. Too bad the guy in that Tundra didn’t drive over that f***er when he got out shooting tho.. I know it’s easy to say from my living room not being there…..
 
Engage or get out of dodge?

Personally I’d be thinking to mine and myself and get out of dodge. If I was alone I don’t know for sure. Probably still get out of dodge. Though I’m sure some would engage. Hard decision.
Nobody knows what they will do until confronted with the situation! I highly doubt it will go as smoothly as you think it will, regardless of the amount of training you have.
GTFO (with any loved ones with me)

Everyone at that event could have gotten the license and a gun. Because I did does not make me obligated to risk my life for them.
100% Agree!
 
What are the possible ways this could end if I engage the shooter?

1. I am successful and kill the shooter and then I get killed by the police
2. I am successful and kill the shooter and then I get arrested and lose my LTC and guns and become a PP.
3. I engage and both the shooter and I are killed
4. I engage and am not successful at all and I am killed.
5. I engage and kill or wound the shooter but end up getting wounded myself and am arrested and lose my LTC and guns and become a PP.

Anyway, at the very least it looks like it could cost me a lot of money and probably my physical health and possibly my freedom and lose my LTC and guns and become a PP..

Any success and if it turns out there is a difference in our ethnic backgrounds then I am forever labeled a racist and a murderer on the internet, there are protest and marches outside my house my family is targeted and threatened by the shooters similar ethnic types possibly raping my wife and daughters....

No thank you.

Vote for pro 2A candidates and get your own gun and defend yourself and your children.

Or take your chances and wait for the police to arrive and take several hours to assess the situation before the engage, while the shooter continues to eliminate targets of opportunity.
You missed
6: While engaging the shooter, successful or not, you injure a bystander whose family bankrupts you in civil court.

In Mass you have a duty to retreat in public and even though you are legally allowed to defend others the jury will hear hours of testimony paid for by your taxes on how the right thing to do is observe and report while allowing the police to engage. You will be portrayed as a bloodthirsty vigilante and the jury instructions will not allow for the juror to use conscience.
 
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