yet ANOTHER guns on school grounds question...

[jenlynn724]

This is a hypothetical question of course. Let's say you carry daily, and pick one of your kids up from school, where you actually stand across the street from the school. What would you do on that day when the principal, or teacher approaches you, and tells you that your kid is inside, either sick, or in trouble and you have to come in and get them?

 

[SecondAmdFirst]

Pull out your gun and say "mind holding this for me?" LOL

Seriously, I don't know either. These are the little snags you run into just trying to CCW and go about your daily life.

 

[xstickfightx]

I would go right in without thinking twice.

 

[steveyc272]

The only thing I would advocate on a public forum is to unload and secure your firearm in your locked truck or other locked container before entering school grounds.

 

[SecondAmdFirst]

The only thing I would advocate on a public forum is to unload and secure your firearm in your locked truck or other locked container before entering school grounds.

Well, like it or not, that is the law. Since the gun owning community is generally more law-abiding than others, we will comply. I would definitely say secure the firearm legally, as the only other option is to not carry on a daily basis.

 

[jenlynn724]

I'm more curious as to what you would say to teacher, principal, etc. "Hold on a minute, i have to walk a block that way back to my car" or maybe.." Sorry, i can't come in, I am armed".. kind of stuff

 

[Pete85]

I would definitely say secure the firearm legally, as the only other option is to not carry on a daily basis.

If it's the principal, you have a third option. Informing them of the fact that you are armed. They can (technically) grant you permission to carry on school property as the "head of the institution". I'm not sure if the permission has to be in writing or not. That being said, if my car wasn't very close by whre I could go lock the gun up legally, I would probably tell them we either need to have the conversation where we stand, or we'd need to reschedule.

 

[MisterHappy]

I may be wrong ( and I don't carry every day, so it's never been an issue) but I believe that you may carry with the written permission of the school.

Of course, now you've tipped your hand, and "everyone" will know your secret.

Best course IMO is the locked box thing....at our schools there is a "Resource Officer" occasionally on the premises, and printing could cause.....trouble....

Best answer: well behaved kids that don't get sick!

 

[center442]

A hard call, Jen. If it wasn't an uber-emergency, I'd probably say something like, "I'll be there in a second; I left my car running and just have to lock it up before I come in." I'd stash the sidearm in the car and then enter the school. This would probably work in most cases. You'd should be able to get in and out of the school fairly quickly. If it was a serious emergency, I would have expected the school to transport the student to a medical facility. I would avoid any discussion of a firearm with school personnel. When I was teaching, there were some moonbat teachers who didn't even like to see the school resource officer carrying his sidearm. IMHO, nothing good will come from a discussion of carrying firearms with school personnel...unless, of course, I were the teacher. Then we could talk about guns, calibers, reloading, holster choice, etc.

If it were a dire emergency that required my immediate presence, I would enter the building and keep my mouth shut. No perfect solution here. All you can try to do is what a reasonable person would.

ETA: When I was posting I was thinking of a medical issue, a sick child. If it were a discipline issue, most likely your child is being suspended and needs to be removed from the building. I'd still follow my suggestion above, and schedule any meeting/hearing for another day. My goal would be to get my child and get back to my car and firearm as quickly as possible. I don't like leaving any of my firearms in an unattended vehicle. Cars get stolen and broken into with great regularity. Worst case, your child won't be able to return to school for a day or two until the meeting.

 

[b79holmes]

My son has had summer camps and school break camps on school property.
One day he forgot something and the car was already loaded for a trip to the range.

I parked in the street and walked into the building, (keep in mind I am in the street while the school parking lot is basically empty). Your issue crossed my mind but luckily no one questioned this odd behavior.

Like it or not I would choose to not CCW in your situation, the law is the law. I'd drive my car and park close to the school if I felt it was necessary.

Rule #1 while CCW-ing is to never tell anyone.

Suggesting you not follow the law on a public forum where you are not really anonymous is the height of stupidity. You might have to move to Swampscott someday.

Bill

 

[Loyalist]

Rule #1 while CCW-ing is to never tell anyone.

Interesting rule...just curious, what are other CCW "rules" or good pieces of advice to follow while CCW (in general)?

 

[drgrant]

This is a hypothetical question of course. Let's say you carry daily, and pick one of your kids up from school, where you actually stand across the street from the school. What would you do on that day when the principal, or teacher approaches you, and tells you that your kid is inside, either sick, or in trouble and you have to come in and get them?

If it's a dire emergency, I don't know what to tell you. If its something they can wait a few minutes for, make an excuse "I don't want to leave my purse/gps/phone in my car, ill be back in a minute" and discreetly stow the gun according to law. Never, ever tell them you are armed. This can go nowhere good, and they're not going to give you permission. 99% of all school admin types in MA are flaming moonbats and would likely act irrationally to such a notification.

-Mike

 

[Titan]

I'm more curious as to what you would say to teacher, principal, etc. "Hold on a minute, i have to walk a block that way back to my car" or maybe.." Sorry, i can't come in, I am armed".. kind of stuff

In MA, I would NEVER reveal my carry status to anyone connected with a school (leftist spies).

I would have zero confidence in receiving a rational reaction to such a revelation.

It's hard to imagine how you could say 'sorry I can't' without revealing your situation.

The best I could offer would be.."I'm so sorry but I'm feeling a bit nausious (sp?) myself and need to stay in the fresh air. Would you please bring (the child) out to me...I'd be so grateful!"

 

[seanc]

Never, ever tell them you are armed. This can go nowhere good, and they're not going to give you permission. 99% of all school admin types in MA are flaming moonbats and would likely act irrationally to such a notification.

+100.
No good can come of telling them. Expect the prinicpal to tell everyone in the world. Very possiby have everything blown way out of proportion. Open yourself up to potential CPS involvement. Unless you know that person very well never say anything.

I'd expect that if you were to use the excuse, " I left my crack pipe burning in my car and need to put it out first" it would probably be more acceptable.

 

[DickWanner]

The only thing I would advocate on a public forum is to unload and secure your firearm in your locked truck or other locked container before entering school grounds.

No need to unload, law says that it only has to be unloaded while the vehicle is in motion (transporting). For the act of storage a firearm can be locked while loaded in the trunk or "other secure container".

Furthermore, the law states that you cannot have on your person a firearm on school grounds. You could unload and secure before reaching school property and theoretically drive onto school property while breaking no law. Keep in mind this is Mass though. Cops, lawyers, and judges (and CLEOs) all interpert the law how they want it to be and not neccessarily how it actually is.

 

[center442]

Interesting rule...just curious, what are other CCW "rules" or good pieces of advice to follow while CCW (in general)?

I can't speak for anyone else, but my rules for CCW are:

1) Concealed means concealed. If you're doing it properly, most people will never be aware that you're armed.

2) Keep your mouth shut. If you're following rule #1 but then you tell people you're carrying, it kind of defeats the whole purpose. (There are some exceptions to this, like an LEO asking, but that will open up a whole can of worms, and has already been discussed in many previous threads)

3) Keep the drinking/drugs to a minimum. Using too much of either will cause you to violate the first two rules.

Again, those are just my rules in simplified form.

 

[seanc]

1) Concealed means concealed. If you're doing it properly, most people will never be aware that you're armed.
2) Keep your mouth shut.

Many schools have metal detectors at the door. Something that all ccw'ers need to take into serious consideration..

 

[center442]

Many schools have metal detectors at the door. Something that all ccw'ers need to take into serious consideration..

Understood and agreed, sean. My response was to Loyalist who seemed to be asking about general CCW rules, not just school-specific ones.

 

[Titan]

...3) Keep the drinking/drugs to a minimum. Using too much of either will cause you to violate the first two rules.

Again, those are just my rules in simplified form.

Excellent advice!
I'm so happy that you at least cut back on the drinking/drugs while carrying!

 

[Len-2A Training]

Many schools have metal detectors at the door. Something that all ccw'ers need to take into serious consideration..

I'm glad that I've never had to deal with schools where you are.

I've been in and out of a number of suburban schools on business or for meetings, no metal detectors and no strip searches.

I'd never get thru a metal detector even on a good day, w/o any armament of any sort.

 

[seanc]

I'm glad that I've never had to deal with schools where you are.

I've been in and out of a number of suburban schools on business or for meetings, no metal detectors and no strip searches.

I'd never get thru a metal detector even on a good day, w/o any armament of any sort.

As a rule. Any place that has a metal detector is not someplace that I want to be.

 

[center442]

Excellent advice!
I'm so happy that you at least cut back on the drinking/drugs while carrying!

Actually, I rarely drink, and I've been told that my mental processes are bizarre enough that I don't use drugs at all. I have seen people get a little too carried away with drinking while socializing. I was always taught that guns and alcohol don't mix, so it's become one of my rules and I just thought I'd throw it out there. An occasional drink while carrying wouldn't be a problem for most folks, the problems arise when the liquor overtakes common sense. Those incidents usually wind up in the newspapers or on Youtube.

 

[Kevlar]

No need to unload, law says that it only has to be unloaded while the vehicle is in motion (transporting). For the act of storage a firearm can be locked while loaded in the trunk or "other secure container".

It is illegal to store a loaded firearm in a vehicle.

Furthermore, the law states that you cannot have on your person a firearm on school grounds. You could unload and secure before reaching school property and theoretically drive onto school property while breaking no law. Keep in mind this is Mass though. Cops, lawyers, and judges (and CLEOs) all interpert the law how they want it to be and not neccessarily how it actually is.

Agreed.

 

[Titan]

It is illegal to store a loaded firearm in a vehicle.

...

Are you sure???

I hear an awful lot of folks referring to their 'truck gun'!

 

[DickWanner]

It is illegal to store a loaded firearm in a vehicle.

I forget the exact MGL #, but subsections 'C' and 'F' differentiate between a moving vehicle and a stationary/parked vehicle.

 

[Kevlar]

I forget the exact MGL #, but subsections 'C' and 'F' differentiate between a moving vehicle and a stationary/parked vehicle.

It is generally accepted that M.G.L. c.140 s.131C controls transportation AND storage in a vehicle. Scrivener, Cross-X and Ron Glidden have taken this position, and I would be inclined to follow their advice. YMMV.

 

[M1911]

No need to unload, law says that it only has to be unloaded while the vehicle is in motion (transporting). For the act of storage a firearm can be locked while loaded in the trunk or "other secure container".

Some of the attorneys on NES have suggested that it does have to be unloaded.

I forget the exact MGL #, but subsections 'C' and 'F' differentiate between a moving vehicle and a stationary/parked vehicle.

Actually, no. MGL Chapter 140 Section 131c covers transportation, but says nothing about moving versus stationary or parked: http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/140-131c.htm

MGL Chapter 140 Section 131l covers storage, but says nothing about motor vehicles: http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/140-131l.htm

I'm not aware of anything in the law that differentiates between a moving car versus a stationary car. If you think there is, please support with a citation.

 

[DickWanner]

Some of the attorneys on NES have suggested that it does have to be unloaded.


Actually, no. MGL Chapter 140 Section 131c covers transportation, but says nothing about moving versus stationary or parked: http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/140-131c.htm


MGL Chapter 140 Section 131l covers storage, but says nothing about motor vehicles: http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/140-131l.htm

I'm not aware of anything in the law that differentiates between a moving car versus a stationary car. If you think there is, please support with a citation.

The fact that it does not mention it does not exclude it from being a locked container. None-the-less, I may have read an old version of the law or something. All I know is that I'd rather not be screwing around with my gun in the car trying to load/unload it, but YMMV.

 

[M1911]

The fact that it does not mention it does not exclude it from being a locked container. None-the-less, I may have read an old version of the law or something. All I know is that I'd rather not be screwing around with my gun in the car trying to load/unload it, but YMMV.

Several firearms attorneys on NES have said that the gun needs to be unloaded when left unattended in a car. If you think you know the law better than they do, then have at it.

What I've learned from reading the law is that words don't necessarily mean the same thing in the law as they do in standard usage. For example, in most of Chapter 140, a shotgun is not a firearm (see MGL Chapter 140 Section 121). You may think that the section on storage (MGL Chapter 140 Section 131l) governs when a gun is left unattended in a car. Apparently several attorneys on NES believe that the section on transport governs.

And these sections aren't "new." They haven't changed since Chapter 180 of the 1998 laws.

There's lots of things that I'd rather not screw around with. I'd rather leave a loaded gun on my nightstand at night and not screw around with locking up. I'd rather leave a loaded AR15 leaning up against the wall. But what I would rather or rather not screw around with has no bearing and what is or is not legal.

 

[RichM]

JenLynn, I don't think that anyone here has suggested a third option (option 1: don't CC, and option 2: make any excuse to run back to your car to unload and secure your handgun):

I would suggest that you unload and secure your handgun as soon as you arrive at your parking spot (near school grounds), then walk to the school to meet your child. You have a couple of advantages to this option: you don't have to come up with a quick excuse; you can go into the school if desired; and you won't be the only parent standing across the street waiting for your child when all the other parents are waiting at the bottom of the steps (until your child is a teenager and he/she will REQUIRE that you not be seen anywhere near the school!).

The other advantage to this option is that you are not unloading hurriedly or more carelessly than otherwise; you'll be able to take your time and do it correctly, creating your own "safe direction."

The disadvantage that I see is how you re-arm yourself... depending on the age and "talkativeness" of your child, you may not want to immediately rearm as soon as you get back into the car, but wait until you get home ("Honey, go get the mail while I get out of the car...")...

I'm well-involved in parent groups at the various schools my children attend, and I once gave a fairly obvious hint to the police officer who was president of our PTO about why I didn't park in the parking lot... his reply had something to do with "it matters who you know..." I still parked across the street...