-
If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership The benefits pay for the membership many times over.
WTK If Any Gun Shows, May, June, July
- Thread starter anthon94
- Start date
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2005
- Messages
- 57,012
- Likes
- 21,115
June 4th & 5th - Big E in W. Springfield. Probably ~500 tables (they advertise 900 tables, but more likely 5-600 for real).
Be prepared to pay thru the nose for parking . . . they have gotten very greedy out there.
Welcome to the forum!
Be prepared to pay thru the nose for parking . . . they have gotten very greedy out there.
Welcome to the forum!
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2005
- Messages
- 57,012
- Likes
- 21,115
Welcome Adam!
It is the biggest venue in the state for a gun show.
You can expect to see lots of stuff for sale, some exhibits (not for sale), some hi-cap mags for sale that will buy you an instant felony in MA, some handguns that can't be sold in MA, accessories, one or two ammo dealers outside the hall in a tent, just about nothing in reloading supplies, one dealer selling jerky (my lunch at these shows), a number of holster dealers (some fair stuff, not custom/high quality stuff), etc.
What I'm pointing out above is that you MUST be vigilant about what you buy, as some of what is for sale can get you jammed up legally. I generally buy accessories at these shows and usually better deals on guns can be had at a local dealer (Four Seasons in Woburn in particular).
It is the biggest venue in the state for a gun show.
You can expect to see lots of stuff for sale, some exhibits (not for sale), some hi-cap mags for sale that will buy you an instant felony in MA, some handguns that can't be sold in MA, accessories, one or two ammo dealers outside the hall in a tent, just about nothing in reloading supplies, one dealer selling jerky (my lunch at these shows), a number of holster dealers (some fair stuff, not custom/high quality stuff), etc.
What I'm pointing out above is that you MUST be vigilant about what you buy, as some of what is for sale can get you jammed up legally. I generally buy accessories at these shows and usually better deals on guns can be had at a local dealer (Four Seasons in Woburn in particular).
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2005
- Messages
- 57,012
- Likes
- 21,115
Regarding the Big E gun shows. . .
My personal opinion on which ones to attend:
- May/June and December seem to have the most stuff (and most interesting stuff).
- October is probably a good bet for hunters picking up items for their Fall hunting parties.
- The rest of the shows aren't worth the price of admission ($8) and parking (was $5 last year).
My personal opinion on which ones to attend:
- May/June and December seem to have the most stuff (and most interesting stuff).
- October is probably a good bet for hunters picking up items for their Fall hunting parties.
- The rest of the shows aren't worth the price of admission ($8) and parking (was $5 last year).
Big E Gun show
Parking is $5 this year and admission is $8 ($7 if you get a coupon from the local paper or SGN). Food is outrageous so I would not plan on a big lunch. You can get some interesting buys however. In the March show I picked up a 4" S&W which was advertised as a Model 15. I knew it was earlier than Model numbers (I figured 1948-49). Turned out (according to Roy Jinks) it was manufactured as a 6" K38 Masterpiece, shipped in January 1949, and was returned to S&W in May 1950 to have the barrel cut to 4". That was a lucky find on my part.
Several years back I picked up a nice Mossberg 44 US(b) which had markings indicating it was once used at West Point. Only $80.
If you have $20 to spare and some time, it's worth looking around.
Parking is $5 this year and admission is $8 ($7 if you get a coupon from the local paper or SGN). Food is outrageous so I would not plan on a big lunch. You can get some interesting buys however. In the March show I picked up a 4" S&W which was advertised as a Model 15. I knew it was earlier than Model numbers (I figured 1948-49). Turned out (according to Roy Jinks) it was manufactured as a 6" K38 Masterpiece, shipped in January 1949, and was returned to S&W in May 1950 to have the barrel cut to 4". That was a lucky find on my part.
Several years back I picked up a nice Mossberg 44 US(b) which had markings indicating it was once used at West Point. Only $80.
If you have $20 to spare and some time, it's worth looking around.
So I wonder... I have seen the current approved handgun roster, but is there one out there somewhere that has all the models since the approved roster started?LenS said:
Also are there any restrictions purchasing ammo at these events?
Thanks
Adam
Big E
While it was a large show, I didn't see any great deals...at least none that held my interest. Unfortunatly, it is a two hour ride from my home in NH. What was a pain was after buying ammo, you were barred from re-entry. I had to hike to the car and drop it off. It would have been nice to know that before I bought it.
Beyond that, I'm happier going to the Manchester or Concord show. Much closer and at least I can buy if see something that interests me..
While it was a large show, I didn't see any great deals...at least none that held my interest. Unfortunatly, it is a two hour ride from my home in NH. What was a pain was after buying ammo, you were barred from re-entry. I had to hike to the car and drop it off. It would have been nice to know that before I bought it.
Beyond that, I'm happier going to the Manchester or Concord show. Much closer and at least I can buy if see something that interests me..
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2005
- Messages
- 57,012
- Likes
- 21,115
The Big E management are absolutely paranoid on NOT allowing ANY ammo inside the building! Thus, even in Winter they have to sell from the ammo tent! This also restricts who sells ammo at their shows since a dealer can't "just put ammo on his table beside guns/supplies", but would have to have additional staff at a remote location.
For that reason, obnoxious Steve (from NY) and one other ammo dealer (from NH/ME IIRC) are the only people selling ammo. No fabulous buys there and Steve won't take a check even if you have a personal note from Pres. Bush . . . green cash only. [I was working the GOAL table across from him at one of the former shows in Foxboro (not allowed there by new owner) and tried to buy 2 cases of .223 ammo with a personal check or cc. He lit off on my with such a tirade that I told him to stuff his ammo! It was his attitude, not the fact that he wanted cash that led me to mistrust him at least as much as he mistrusted taking a check. There are probably 12-20 dealers at these shows that know me well enough that they would gladly take a check from me if they didn't take a cc.]
I try to make the Concord, NH show each Labor Day weekend and find it a MUCH better show to buy ammo, powder, primers, etc. if that is what you are looking for.
Adam, there is ONLY one handgun roster. Guns get added to it 1-2x/year, but NONE get removed once on the roster (unlike CA where the mfr has to pay extortion money each year to keep each gun on the roster). The AG has NO "list" and can approve one one day (Glock) and ban it the next day (Glock). Handguns must meet both the EOPS handgun roster AND the AG's "double-secret" requirements in order to be sold. [There is an exception for handguns that were "in state" on 10/21/98, held by a legal owner under some provisions of Chapter 140.]
For that reason, obnoxious Steve (from NY) and one other ammo dealer (from NH/ME IIRC) are the only people selling ammo. No fabulous buys there and Steve won't take a check even if you have a personal note from Pres. Bush . . . green cash only. [I was working the GOAL table across from him at one of the former shows in Foxboro (not allowed there by new owner) and tried to buy 2 cases of .223 ammo with a personal check or cc. He lit off on my with such a tirade that I told him to stuff his ammo! It was his attitude, not the fact that he wanted cash that led me to mistrust him at least as much as he mistrusted taking a check. There are probably 12-20 dealers at these shows that know me well enough that they would gladly take a check from me if they didn't take a cc.]
I try to make the Concord, NH show each Labor Day weekend and find it a MUCH better show to buy ammo, powder, primers, etc. if that is what you are looking for.
Adam, there is ONLY one handgun roster. Guns get added to it 1-2x/year, but NONE get removed once on the roster (unlike CA where the mfr has to pay extortion money each year to keep each gun on the roster). The AG has NO "list" and can approve one one day (Glock) and ban it the next day (Glock). Handguns must meet both the EOPS handgun roster AND the AG's "double-secret" requirements in order to be sold. [There is an exception for handguns that were "in state" on 10/21/98, held by a legal owner under some provisions of Chapter 140.]
So only the hand guns listed here http://www.mass.gov/Eeops/docs/chsb/firearms/approved_firearms_roster.pdf are approved for sale in MA as new? Anything else has to have a paper trail (not sure what that would be) to prove it has been in the state since 98' to be legally purchased/owned? And that list is the current list of all hand guns since 1998 thru present day that are allowed to be sold without proving they have been here since 98'?
Sorry for the ignorance, but I would much rather NOT have a felony on my record...
Adam
Sorry for the ignorance, but I would much rather NOT have a felony on my record...
Adam
Adam_MA said:
Unless you're a dealer, I really wouldn't worry. Chapter 140 Section 123 (the legislative authority behind "the list") is a restriction on what firearms licensed dealers may legally sell, not on what individuals may own or possess. Whenever I talk to anybody who, against my better advice, is moving into Massachusetts, I tell them to look at the list, and buy anything and everything not there before moving here. (You know, defective, unsafe crap from unscrupulous manufacturers like Les Baer, Wilson Combat, Kimber and their ilk) That gives them the option of option of having these "unsafe and defective" firearms for their own pleasure, or selling up to four of them per year (at a tidy profit) to those of us already here for our pleasure.
Ken
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2005
- Messages
- 57,012
- Likes
- 21,115
Adam_MA said:
Yes, but one catch . . . Fed Law prohibits buying handguns from ANYONE outside your state of residence unless you are the holder of a (Federal) FFL. Thus, many of us got C&R FFLs that allow us to buy "old handguns" outside MA or have them shipped to us directly from outside MA . . . but the guns have to be >50 yrs old or on a short list of Fed recognized curio guns.
Ahhh... But then again an FFL holding MA gun dealer wouldn't be able to sell any of the non approved handguns to a MA resident in the first place right? But if there were a dealer at the show from another state with something not on the approved roster could I legally purchase and own that gun from them?
And what about those mail-order places that sell guns that are legal in MA and ship them to a local FFL.. Are those legit for us poor saps in MA?
Again sorry for all the questions but a felony would take away my LTC/FID forever and that's just not a chance I'm willing to take!
Adam
And what about those mail-order places that sell guns that are legal in MA and ship them to a local FFL.. Are those legit for us poor saps in MA?
Again sorry for all the questions but a felony would take away my LTC/FID forever and that's just not a chance I'm willing to take!
Adam
FalArAk
NES Member
x2 Can I do this and not be a felon ?
If I pay for a HkUSP from a dealer out of state,and have it shipped to a local FFL,is this cool ? The dealer isn't selling it to me,just transferring it.
Could I recieve a HkUSP as a gift ?
In other words (besides moving out of MA) how can I legally own a NEW HkUSP or a Kimber.
Greg said:
I agree with you that the Mass FFL wouldn't be selling you the firearm, merely transfering one that you had already purchased from another dealer. However, there are two problems here. First, the Mass FFL would be subject to a $5,000 fine, which the AG would almost certainly impose the moment that the required paperwork was filed with the state. Second, since this would be an administrative penalty rather than a criminal offense, the there wouldn't be any "jury of your peers" or "innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonavble doubt" for the dealer. So why would he or she be willing to make the transfer for anything you'd be willing to pay?
Now, if someone (perhaps a friend or family member) was going to be moving to Massachusetts, they might buy some nice new gun that they thought they wanted, but after further consideration changed their mind. They could then, after becoming properly licensed as a Mass resident, sell that gun to some other properly licensed Massachusetts resident (perhaps you), without any need to involve a dealer.
Ken
KMaurer said:
What Ken said. You can't buy from an out of MA dealer because the firearm must be one that is owned IN the state prior to the purchase. And, I've wanted a Kimber .45 for quite a while, but the $$ tag is a bit steep. I can still look at them at the Kittery Trading Post, but they told me I have to bring a towel with me from now on and wipe up my own drool.
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2005
- Messages
- 57,012
- Likes
- 21,115
Ken stated it correctly!
There is NO legal way to buy a handgun (that isn't EOPS approved AND meets the AG Regs) from any out-of-state source and have a MA FFL involved in any fashion whatsoever. Fed Law prohibits anyone that is not an FFL holder from buying any handgun outside the state of their residence. Likewise, Dealer FFLs are ONLY allowed to sell guns in the state that they are Licensed. . . thus when you see an out-of-state FFL at a gun show, they are legally obligated to use a MA FFL to actually do the transfer to you. This is all Fed Law, not MA Law.
There are three "loopholes" to the above:
- Inheritance does NOT have to go thru an FFL, even Inter-state (it's in BATFE Regs). Thus if someone dies and leaves you a gun, you can legally obtain it even if it's not "blessed by MA". [NOTE: A LOT of LE tells widows that they MUST get a LTC or tells them that they "Should" or "Must" use an FFL . . . very bad advice because this would PROHIBIT the transfer of most handguns if it were true.]
- Someone moves into MA with their collection of guns, gets a MA LTC, then can privately transfer up to four guns a year . . . regardless of MA approved handguns!
- Get a C&R FFL and purchase directly from out of state sources. Only problem is that the guns HAVE to be >50 years old OR on the list of BATFE approved curios & relics.
There is NO legal way to buy a handgun (that isn't EOPS approved AND meets the AG Regs) from any out-of-state source and have a MA FFL involved in any fashion whatsoever. Fed Law prohibits anyone that is not an FFL holder from buying any handgun outside the state of their residence. Likewise, Dealer FFLs are ONLY allowed to sell guns in the state that they are Licensed. . . thus when you see an out-of-state FFL at a gun show, they are legally obligated to use a MA FFL to actually do the transfer to you. This is all Fed Law, not MA Law.
There are three "loopholes" to the above:
- Inheritance does NOT have to go thru an FFL, even Inter-state (it's in BATFE Regs). Thus if someone dies and leaves you a gun, you can legally obtain it even if it's not "blessed by MA". [NOTE: A LOT of LE tells widows that they MUST get a LTC or tells them that they "Should" or "Must" use an FFL . . . very bad advice because this would PROHIBIT the transfer of most handguns if it were true.]
- Someone moves into MA with their collection of guns, gets a MA LTC, then can privately transfer up to four guns a year . . . regardless of MA approved handguns!
- Get a C&R FFL and purchase directly from out of state sources. Only problem is that the guns HAVE to be >50 years old OR on the list of BATFE approved curios & relics.
FalArAk
NES Member
I kind of figured as much regarding the Hk or any of the obviously dangerous Kimbers coming into MA.
There should be some sort of waiver I could sign stating that I will not sue the state if my Hk or Kimber blows up in my face.
The only thing I could do if I wanted a new banned handgun is somehow silicit people that are moving into the state to buy a gun and transfer it to me when they get here.
People are cool in this state,but the politics suck ass.
There should be some sort of waiver I could sign stating that I will not sue the state if my Hk or Kimber blows up in my face.
The only thing I could do if I wanted a new banned handgun is somehow silicit people that are moving into the state to buy a gun and transfer it to me when they get here.
People are cool in this state,but the politics suck ass.
LenS said:
There's actually a fourth, but it's not much help in practice. It's theoretically possible for someone to hold an FFL without being a licensed Mass dealer. BATFE has been giving such people an extremely hard time when it comes to renewal, but I know of one that still exists. Since they're not licensed as Mass dealers, they're limited to no more than four sales per year, just like everyone else, but since they are FFL holders, they can purchase from out of state without any more hassle than Carl or any other store front dealer.
Ken
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2005
- Messages
- 57,012
- Likes
- 21,115
Greg said:
Greg, this has NOTHING TO DO WITH SAFETY!
The purpose of the AG Regs and EOPS list is to LIMIT the availability of guns in MA, limit the number of Dealers in MA, and to make the restrictions powerful enough to choke anyone who has any idea of getting an FFL!
Thus, no waivers . . . no/few guns!
LenS said:
Len's right - it's called disarming the populace, AG style. There's not one damn thing we can do about it unless the Ahole in question is voted out. Ever hear of a cold day in hell??? The EOPS list has more guns on it than the AG will say is fine. Len - how many has he approved that he'll tell us about? 3? 4? <grrrrrr> I haven't mentioned my total loathing for this state for a couple days....
Rooster said:
"You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against -- then you'll know that this is not the age for beautiful gestures. We're after power and we mean it. Your fellows were pikers, but we know the real trick, and you'd better get wise to it. There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted -- and you create a nation of law-breakers -- and then you cash in on guilt.
Now that's the system...that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be easier to deal with."
Ayn Rand - "Atlas Shrugged"
Ken
TonyD
One Shot One Maggie's Drawers
KMaurer said:Rooster said:
"You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against -- then you'll know that this is not the age for beautiful gestures. We're after power and we mean it. Your fellows were pikers, but we know the real trick, and you'd better get wise to it. There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted -- and you create a nation of law-breakers -- and then you cash in on guilt.
Now that's the system...that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be easier to deal with."
Ayn Rand - "Atlas Shrugged"
Ken
Well said. If you can't take away the second amend. then make everyone criminals so they can't own (or vote). Wake up and smell the coffee, America.
Very good article in American Rifleman this month on just this issue.