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WTF is wrong with Florida??

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by C-pher, May 15, 2012.

  1. Garys

    Garys NES Member

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    Every state that has instituted standardized tests has lowered the passing scores to increase the number of kids that pass. Federal funding it tied to pass rates, so the pass rates must be acceptable. The other thing that happens is that the kids are given the answers ahead of time. The other other thing, as in Atlanta, is that teachers change the answers before the tests are graded.

    It's a scam.
     

  2. blindfire

    blindfire NES Member

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    Right, and as long as teacher performance is directly tied to the standardized testing results, this stuff will continue to happen.
     
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  3. calsdad

    calsdad NES Member

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    We've been doing that for years now - people can't get it thru their thick heads that it doesn't work.

    The root of the problem is the government run - socialized school system. Back in the early days of the country we were one of the most educated countries on the face of the planet. Accounts in books written at the time from educated persons from EUROPE - who traveled this country - were amazed that even the "lowliest farmer" would typically have himself a library and would read on his own accord .

    Remember this was when there was little to not PUBLIC SCHOOLING at all - and if there was any - it was controlled by the local community - not some far away bureaucrat in the state capitol or in D.C..

    The current public/govt. run school system was NOT designed to make kids smart - it was designed to make kids compliant. It often accomplishes this - by making them stupid.

    The fact that so many people constantly deny this fact - despite decades of increasing evidence testifying to the results - speaks to how successfully the whole thing is working.

    All fhe squabbling around the margins about test scores and all that other crap are just the drones constantly arguing over how the manipulate the system around the margins - without addressing the real underlying problem.
     
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  4. calsdad

    calsdad NES Member

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    Quote taken from my brother in law, who is a high school graduate (no college or university) - and has worked in the construction field for 30 years - doing international construction in something like 35 different countries. Oh yeah - he makes a pretty tidy sum of money every year (just pointing it out because to a lot of people that's the yardstick of success and the whole reason why you get an education in the first place):


    " The world needs trash collectors too you know, not everybody is going to be a freaking computer programmer"
     
  5. calsdad

    calsdad NES Member

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    Which successes exactly are you talking about? Before the big government era started during the 30's - the United States had plenty of success without a universal public education system.
     
  6. Business

    Business

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    why learn stuff when the Messiah will provide
     
  7. M1911

    M1911 Moderator NES Member

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    Baloney. You are completely blinded by your dogma that everything government is bad.

    The countries that have the best educational outcomes in the world have government run school systems. Take your pick of the rankings -- all of the good ones have government run systems.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_Index#Ranking

    Is our government (and unions) screwing up our education system? Yes. Does that mean that all governments hopelessly screw up their education systems? No.
     
  8. calsdad

    calsdad NES Member

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    Yeah ok.

    A ranking by the UN? A pro big government organization if ever there was one. Why don't you go pick something with less bias. You can't even take rankings like this seriously - because they have their own dogma they are looking to support. What "outcomes" are they ranking exactly? That people learn things that support big govt agendas?

    The whole "doing good in school" thing is much more complicated than some UN run world wide ranking. There are differences between cultures. There are differences between races (which might just be cultural differences) , there are differences between whether the 'govt. run schooling' is nationally controlled or locally controlled, etc.


    So some governments don't screw up their education systems. That's not an excuse to continue this one on the path that it is on - because it's pretty hard to deny that our government IS screwing up our education system. And there's also an awful lot of evidence that they are doing it on purpose.

    In a country that was more ethnically or socially cohesive and/or had a government that was truly there to serve the people - then I might agree with you that a government run school system is fine. In this country however - where the school system seems to exist to turn kids into dolts, consume tax dollars, crowd out all alternatives, and feed massive amounts of money into teachers unions - I'm going to continue to attack the govt. run schooling system in it's entirety.

    There's plenty of evidence that kids who home school and/or go to privately run schools do just fine - a lot of the time - better than "just fine" they excel and beat out public school educated kids.

    We have a massive big government problem in this country - and you will never solve it - by excusing ANY of it. These people will take 10 miles if you give them an inch - and it's partly because they were educated in a govt. run school and can't count.
     
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  9. Rob Boudrie

    Rob Boudrie NES Member

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    One of the things that allows many of the foreign school systems to succeed is the concept of merit based promotions and ability based tracking, with standardized tests at various points determining what the student's next set of options is. The concept of "everyone's kid goes to college" or "non-college paths are fine, as long as MY kid is in the college track" is one reason for the excess of useless degrees, excessive debt, and mediocracy.
     
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  10. Zappa

    Zappa Road Warrior NES Member

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    This just in:

    Full Story >>> http://ca.news.yahoo.com/half-florida-high-school-students-fail-reading-test-232516894.html

    I think the teachers need another bonus, that'll fix it. [rolleyes]
     
  11. RHJJ

    RHJJ

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    Give the teachers a bonus when the standards are low enough that 90% will pass. Remember the world needs ditch diggers too. Why go forward when it's much easier to just not care.
     
  12. Zappa

    Zappa Road Warrior NES Member

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    Bizarre shit like this:

    Full Story >>> http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/26/2818832/naked-man-shot-killed-on-macarthur.html

    Has the Zombie apocalypse begun ???? [shocked]
     
  13. Rob Boudrie

    Rob Boudrie NES Member

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    I wonder if the officer used Zombie Max ammo.
     
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  14. blindfire

    blindfire NES Member

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    What is it that NH and MA do differently than FL in education that would explain the difference in quality of the education?

    State spending in FL on education went from $4.8 billion in 2001 to $8.8 billion in 2010. Factor in State and local spending, the number goes from $24.8 billion in 2001 to $40.7 billion in 2010.

    Now, compare that to MA. State spending went from $3.0 billion to $5.2 billion and state+local went from $12.7 billion to $18.2 billion over the same time. The NH numbers are comparable to MA when you take into account the population and the amount of money spent at the state and local levels.

    Now, Florida is is roughly 3 times the population of MA and 14 times the size of NH. Simple math shows that MA and NH spends more money on education and it seems to be paying off.

    Got the numbers here
     
  15. Rob Boudrie

    Rob Boudrie NES Member

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    Some of the spending differential is that public service is not a path to extremely generous compensation packages in FL as is is the case in MA. Add to that a demographic less enamored with paying high taxes to support schools when their kids are educated, grown and raising the grandchildren in other states and you have less pressure to spend.
     
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  16. bullseye

    bullseye NES Member

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  17. blindfire

    blindfire NES Member

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    Very good point.
     
  18. blindfire

    blindfire NES Member

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    My uncle lived down there for years and is a glassier. He has been out of work for 3 years now only getting some under the table, part time stuff.

    He just moved to Nevada where my folks live and got a job as soon as he got there. Seems like FL and AZ are turning (have turned) into a place where seniors go to die and as previously stated, are less inclined to want to pay for schools since they got their kids through school. Seems a bit short sighted to me...but whatever.

    I'd be happy to saw FL off at the panhandle and let if float away.
     
  19. Boghog1

    Boghog1

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  20. Zappa

    Zappa Road Warrior NES Member

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    How about we give it to the Chinese as a down payment on our national debt. [rolleyes]
     
  21. Carnea

    Carnea

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    Holy Crap! I just bought myself a few boxes of this Zombie Ammo stuff...I ain't getting caught off guard in case they start to move up the coast to New England... [thinking]
     
  22. garandman

    garandman Instructor NES Member

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    Ever lived there?

    I spoke with the HR manager at a large bank down there. They give a literacy test to Florida HS grads. She said she hires every MA high school graduate she can get "Because they can read, write, and do math." She has department managers with MA HS degrees.

    Just about all our friends in Florida send their kids to private schools or home school them. There are a few bright spots, and lots of people have tried to remedy the problem, but the culture in most of the state just does not support academic achievement.

    They know how to party, though!
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2012
  23. blindfire

    blindfire NES Member

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    Works for me!
     
  24. appraiser

    appraiser NES Member

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    I am at my house in FLA as I type this, and the big news on the TV this weekend was how lousy the Florida CAS (think MCAS) scores were and how they had to lower the passing point to get kids to pass.

    I have never been thrilled with the schools here.
     
  25. RHJJ

    RHJJ

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    Florida is a beautiful state to visit but it has gone way down hill. Thanks to jimmie carter letting the cuban prisoners in.
     
  26. Garys

    Garys NES Member

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    Just about every state that has standardized testing does that. MA, RI, do for sure. I don't know about NH, but then again I've never heard anyone rave about the schools in their NH towns.
     
  27. Zappa

    Zappa Road Warrior NES Member

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    It's so true.
    A typical Florida HS graduate is no smarter than an average 7th grader in Mass.
    I guess we're spoiled growing up here in terms of what we consider "average" intelligence.
    I've been to Florida dozens of times and I get really frustrated when the assistant manager of an Eckerds is too stupid to make proper change.
    Also, the work ethic down there sucks, nobody is in any hurry to do anything.
    I have lots of stories about how ignorant and lazy the locals are down there.
     
  28. garandman

    garandman Instructor NES Member

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    I bet the Germans would pay more for it.

    My wife's family had a neighbor (St Augustine) who was a WWII UBoat Captain. He used to watch people walking along the beach through his periscope at night and dreamed about living in a place like that. One thing led to another and he moved to the US. Fortunately my wife's dad fought in the Pacific so he wasn't too hostile!

    Never used to see Subarus down there, but the last few visits we've seen a number of them. Turns out some of the beach access points are 4WD only, and so many of the folks living there are from the North they bring their Outbacks down with them.

    St Augustine used to be a great place to take vacation because no one moved too fast so you just had to relax and go with the flow. Driving around Orlando is like the worst features of the Northeast and Florida: bunch of old drivers, some aggressive but unskilled ones, tons of traffic and no beaches.
     
  29. Bill Katt

    Bill Katt NES Member

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  30. s4mt3k

    s4mt3k NES Member

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