Worth getting the AG permit now?

[T-Unit]

Since they're now shall issue, is it worth going thru the AG's office for a carry permit now? The only benefit I know of with going thru the AG vs a town is the AG's permit allows open carry while the town's do not.

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

Wait till things shake out.

I had an AG's perming in RI. It wasn't that bad to get.

 

[Jared]

Not worth it unless you are

1. retired LEO
2. politically connected
3. need to openly carry for an occupational need.

The current AG is very anti-gun.

Town permits are shall-issue and post Bruen chiefs can be sued under 1983 for jerking people around. As per the Supreme Court, Self-defense is a reason to carry a handgun so forget the chiefs who want a “letter of need” or any of that. Simply write self defense.

 

[greencobra]

what if the ag won't issue a ltc, can the applicant reapply at the local pd? if the ag doesn't issue, do you have to answer yes to the question have you ever been denied a ltc anywhere. after i thought about this scotus decision, doesn't mean they have to issue, does it? just not make one prove there is a reason for having one. hopefully i'm wrong and not over thinking again.

 

[Jared]

what if the ag won't issue a ltc, can the applicant reapply at the local pd? if the ag doesn't issue, do you have to answer yes to the question have you ever been denied a ltc anywhere. after i thought about this scotus decision, doesn't mean they have to issue, does it? just not make one prove there is a reason for having one. hopefully i'm wrong and not over thinking again.

It shouldn’t matter. Being denied a discretionary license for reasons I do not have to do with criminal history are immaterial.

numerous people have denied attorney general licenses and have gone onto a city of town to obtain a license.

It is never been a problem for me, I’ve been denied in the past. It’s never been a factor in Mass or Rhode Island.

The state Supreme Court was clear multiple times that one licensing statute has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the other.

although we will see how it plays out, I think the attorney general will be able to maintain their licensing discretion because of the town permits.

 

[mike1960]

I went through Narragansett 5 years ago. Everybody in the process was very nice and even got a congratulations from the women at the desk when I picked it up. When I first called they had said go through the AGs office. 3 years later a female friend called Narragansett and they told her to call the AGs office. I told her no go back to the town. She did.

Fast forward to this month I have to renew by October. Went on the Website not only is the town app on line but they have a Renewal app on line. Only requirement is to once a again requalify at 25 yards with the largest caliber you want to carry on the vaunted Army L pistol target.

 

[Jared]

I went through Narragansett 5 years ago. Everybody in the process was very nice and even got a congratulations from the women at the desk when I picked it up. When I first called they had said go through the AGs office. 3 years later a female friend called Narragansett and they told her to call the AGs office. I told her no go back to the town. She did.

Fast forward to this month I have to renew by October. Went on the Website not only is the town app on line but they have a Renewal app on line. Only requirement is to once a again requalify at 25 yards with the largest caliber you want to carry on the vaunted Army L pistol target.

glad to hear. I know personally that Foster and Cranston (more on that below) are extremely friendly too. Believe it or not, I’ve had an attorney tell me that the city of Providence is decent as well.

Same for North Kingston and Coventry.

Cranston is extremely friendly and their renewal application is just biographical info and qual, no stupid references or any of that.

Cranston has no problems with non-residents of RI or anyone with a home or business in Cranston. They do ask that if you live in RI with no home or business in the city that you apply to your town Or the AG and if they deny you then they will accept your app.

that isn’t legal for them but it should be a moot point since all 39 cities and towns have to play ball or they can be sued in their personal capacity.

 

[T-Unit]

what if the ag won't issue a ltc, can the applicant reapply at the local pd? if the ag doesn't issue, do you have to answer yes to the question have you ever been denied a ltc anywhere. after i thought about this scotus decision, doesn't mean they have to issue, does it? just not make one prove there is a reason for having one. hopefully i'm wrong and not over thinking again.

No, per the NYSRPA v Bruen case they have to issue, that's kind of why it's called shall issue and they can't base a denial on lack of a reason. The denial can only be from being a PP, being mentally unfit, or failing the range qualifications.

About the only reason I'd fail is if I run out of time shooting the .54 muzzleloader I plan to carry amd qualify on the range with.

 

[pinefd]

About the only reason I'd fail is if I run out of time shooting the .54 muzzleloader I plan to carry amd qualify on the range with.

 

[Texasgrillchef]

i have applied to the state Ag, Lets see if they approve.

I did talk to one woman when i called who was aware of the NYSPRA case. From what she said they will honor the Supreme Court ruling.

However that remains to be seen until they actually issue.

Same goes with all other "may issue" states. Many are claiming to no longer use the good cause measure. So lets see if they actually start approving though.

Now i did submit the fact that i have 11 LTC's and i am an Instructor with 4 different states.

So i will post once i get word one way or the other. I will file an appeal though if I am denied for any reason not valid.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

So i will post once i get word one way or the other. I will file an appeal though if I am denied for any reason not valid.

You file the appeal with the person who denied you, however, the chances of him overruling himself are FAR greater than a district court overruling a police department's denial of a MA LTC. I've seen the former happen many times.

 

[Jared]

i have applied to the state Ag, Lets see if they approve.

I did talk to one woman when i called who was aware of the NYSPRA case. From what she said they will honor the Supreme Court ruling.

However that remains to be seen until they actually issue.

Same goes with all other "may issue" states. Many are claiming to no longer use the good cause measure. So lets see if they actually start approving though.

Now i did submit the fact that i have 11 LTC's and i am an Instructor with 4 different states.

So i will post once i get word one way or the other. I will file an appeal though if I am denied for any reason not valid.

not sure why you didn’t just apply to Cranston or Foster.

Good luck with the AG. Odds are you will be denied. They don’t care about how many out of state licenses you have nor do they care about being an instructor. They will zero in on a specific RI based need above self defense or gun collector.

Remember, RI courts have said any right to a permit is satisfied by the town permit statute. The additional layer of a discretionary license has been ruled outside the scope of any right or entitlement.

that COULD change because the only way to open carry is on an AG license. I think there is a better chance of shooting down the magazine limit than there is of a court forcing the AG to issue.

 

[Texasgrillchef]

not sure why you didn’t just apply to Cranston or Foster.

Good luck with the AG. Odds are you will be denied. They don’t care about how many out of state licenses you have nor do they care about being an instructor. They will zero in on a specific RI based need above self defense or gun collector.

Remember, RI courts have said any right to a permit is satisfied by the town permit statute. The additional layer of a discretionary license has been ruled outside the scope of any right or entitlement.

that COULD change because the only way to open carry is on an AG license. I think there is a better chance of shooting down the magazine limit than there is of a court forcing the AG to issue.

Maybe based on prior state cases.
However based on NYSPRA, he cant use any subjective reasoning to deny. Only objective reasoning.

I did use other reasons such as for employment instructor reasons and reasons of collecting and for my FFL.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Good luck with the AG. Odds are you will be denied. They don’t care about how many out of state licenses you have nor do they care about being an instructor. They will zero in on a specific RI based need above self defense or gun collector.

The out of state part is true - RI considers it irrelevant according to reports I have received from people who appealed.

The additional "discretionary layer" has, as far as I know, not been ruled outside the scope of any right since the recent SCOTUS decision. It is conceptually identical to allowing white people to apply for a driving license at any satellite RMV office but requiring blacks to go to RMV headquarters to apply.

My guess is the AG will either erect general obstacles or try to get out of the permit business altogether, but will probably go through the motions of compliance.

 

[Texasgrillchef]

The out of state part is true - RI considers it irrelevant according to reports I have received from people who appealed.

The additional "discretionary layer" as, as far as I know, not been ruled outside the scope of any right since the recent SCOTUS decision. It is conceptually identical to allowing white people to apply for a driving license at any satellite RMV office but requiring blacks to go to RMV headquarters to apply.

My guess is the AG will either erect general obstacles or try to get out of the permit business altogether, but will probably go through the motions of compliance.

What i have been saying about all "May Issue" states.

Many are claiming to drop the "good cause, Justifiable need" requirement.

However.... UNTIL we start seeing people actually start getting approved. Everything is speculation.

I suspect though, that if large numbers start getting denied. It will create problems for the State.

Large numbers are allready applying in all of the "May Issue" states. All 7 of them.

We will know in about 90 days!

Can you imagine if they deny 5 or 10 thousand applications? that would be hard to explain in court.

 

[nordic alien]

Not worth it unless you are

1. retired LEO
2. politically connected
3. need to openly carry for an occupational need.

The current AG is very anti-gun.

Town permits are shall-issue and post Bruen chiefs can be sued under 1983 for jerking people around. As per the Supreme Court, Self-defense is a reason to carry a handgun so forget the chiefs who want a “letter of need” or any of that. Simply write self defense.

4: or banging his daughter

 

[Jared]

4: or banging his daughter

Did his daughter’s boyfriend get an AG license?

 

[Jared]

Maybe based on prior state cases.
However based on NYSPRA, he cant use any subjective reasoning to deny. Only objective reasoning.

I did use other reasons such as for employment instructor reasons and reasons of collecting and for my FFL.

New York only has one option for a carry license.

Rhode Island and Louisiana have both a shall-issue and a May-issue process.

As long as the shall issue Avenue is open and in compliance with Bruen, the AG license is an extra layer.

I would love to see the AG license be shall-issue; however, all they have to say is that people are free to apply to a town.

 

[Texasgrillchef]

New York only has one option for a carry license.

Rhode Island and Louisiana have both a shall-issue and a May-issue process.

As long as the shall issue Avenue is open and in compliance with Bruen, the AG license is an extra layer.

I would love to see the AG license be shall-issue; however, all they have to say is that people are free to apply to a town.

They will of course use that argument, and it might stand up in from a liberal judge. I doubt however it would make it past Justice Thomas.

Keep in mind what the new protocol. Two tier is no long allowed. Now strict with use of TTH.

And maybe they can get away with a few denials. However if they get swamped with applications and they start getting 5 or 10 thousand denials. Any of the former May Issue states may find themselves in even bigger trouble.

For instance it is estimated that about 5,000 apps have allready been submitted for Maryland, and about the same number or more for California.

One person who works at the police barracks in NJ told me they have already received 300 applications at their barracks alone. In the last week.

I dont think the states are going to deny many.

Where the states "Think" they can get away with, is sensitive places.

Only time will tell...

In 90 days, lets see if the states deny or not.

I WILL appeal in federal district court if the state AG denies me though for anything subjective and not objective.

 

[ProGun]

For instance it is estimated that about 5,000 apps have allready been submitted for Maryland, and about the same number or more for California.

One person who works at the police barracks in NJ told me they have already received 300 applications at their barracks alone. In the last week.

Interesting. I'll be very interested in seeing what happens, especially in NJ. Please keep us posted. Fyi, I think there is a NJ thread that @Reptile started.

Found it...
NJ Drops ‘Justifiable Need’ Requirement for Concealed Carry Following SCOTUS 2A Ruling

 

[Jared]

They will of course use that argument, and it might stand up in from a liberal judge. I doubt however it would make it past Justice Thomas.

Keep in mind what the new protocol. Two tier is no long allowed. Now strict with use of TTH.

And maybe they can get away with a few denials. However if they get swamped with applications and they start getting 5 or 10 thousand denials. Any of the former May Issue states may find themselves in even bigger trouble.

For instance it is estimated that about 5,000 apps have allready been submitted for Maryland, and about the same number or more for California.

One person who works at the police barracks in NJ told me they have already received 300 applications at their barracks alone. In the last week.

I dont think the states are going to deny many.

Where the states "Think" they can get away with, is sensitive places.

Only time will tell...

In 90 days, lets see if the states deny or not.

I WILL appeal in federal district court if the state AG denies me though for anything subjective and not objective.

Please consider Chas Calenda out of Coventry as it’s difficult to find good 2A counsel in Rhode Island.

I’ve seen RI lawyers screw people over on these cases.

Keep us posted. They’re taking almost 90 days to process applications at the AG.

 

[Texasgrillchef]

Please consider Chas Calenda out of Coventry as it’s difficult to find good 2A counsel in Rhode Island.

I’ve seen RI lawyers screw people over on these cases.

Keep us posted. They’re taking almost 90 days to process applications at the AG.

Id be filing in Federal Court. I would be using Paul Clement. I am sure you know him.

 

[Jared]

Id be filing in Federal Court. I would be using Paul Clement. I am sure you know him.

Know of him. I never met him. Great choice though.

 

[T-Unit]

New York only has one option for a carry license.

Rhode Island and Louisiana have both a shall-issue and a May-issue process.

As long as the shall issue Avenue is open and in compliance with Bruen, the AG license is an extra layer.

I would love to see the AG license be shall-issue; however, all they have to say is that people are free to apply to a town.

Not if they want to open carry.

 

[Texasgrillchef]

Don’t forget we also have Young V Hawaii, open carry permitting.

Young v Hawaii went to conference today 6-29-2022, we should know something tomorrow.

That soon could make open carry legal in all 50 states.

 

[Jared]

Not if they want to open carry.

I would love for the AG to be forced to issue just for open carry. I’d absolutely love to see it.

I could picture one of the local networks doing panic low information Rhode Islander interviews about the “wILd WiLd wEsT”

Under the History and tradition review standard, there was a point in time from 1897 until 1927 to where Rhode Island banned concealed carry of any weapon anywhere.

To see where a court would take that analysis would be interesting because RI changed their laws. Same for mag limits. 12 round limit from 1927-1959, 14 round limit from 1959-1975…. and now this stupid 10 round limit.

Even when the shall-issue permit scheme was created in 1927, open carry wasn’t touched.

I don’t remember the date when OC fell under the AG license. The AG license wasn’t created for OC as it was created in 1938 for the AG to be able to arm investigators without relying on a chief; however, the way the statute was written, anyone could be issued an AG license. Back then, town permits were good for a year, they were 2 or 3 dollars (a lot of money back then) and you had to post a 5 or 10 thousand dollar surety bond, and you had to list the pistol(s) on the license by make model, and serial number (if any).

Until about 40 years ago, the AG license was vastly superior to a town one. Back then AG licenses were valid for as long as the AG wanted them to be and there was no caliber restriction on them until the past few decades. Town permits had the caliber restriction starting in 1959 and they expired annually until 1975 when they were valid for 2 years. Eventually the caliber test and expiration date by statute was extended to AG permits.

 

[dhuze]

Since they're now shall issue, is it worth going thru the AG's office for a carry permit now? The only benefit I know of with going thru the AG vs a town is the AG's permit allows open carry while the town's do not.

Try open carrying and let us know how that works out.

And the main reason you'd get a permit from the Chief of Police is you can forego the 7 day waiting period. With the AG permit you cannot.

 

[T-Unit]

Try open carrying and let us know how that works out.

And the main reason you'd get a permit from the Chief of Police is you can forego the 7 day waiting period. With the AG permit you cannot.

8 day wait period.

But to skip that and open carry I have to get 2 permits? Is that even possible?

 

[Jared]

8 day wait period.

But to skip that and open carry I have to get 2 permits? Is that even possible?

yes. I have both a town and an AG license.

 

[Jared]

Try open carrying and let us know how that works out.

And the main reason you'd get a permit from the Chief of Police is you can forego the 7 day waiting period. With the AG permit you cannot.

A former gun instructor from RI who has since moved to the Midwest openly carried for 3 straight days and documented it on TTAG. Most didn’t notice, even on Thayer street in Providence.

Those who did just assumed he was a cop. He went to a cigar lounge in Providence and a pool hall.

A few administrations ago, BCI sent a memo to police chiefs to remind their officers that AG permit holders could openly carry.