Worman v. Baker (MA AWB) Oral Arguments 1-9-2019

[Coyote33]

"The AR-15 , ... are simply not weapons within the original meaning of the individual constitutional right to "bear arms."

So what were? Confused.

I mean, these are exactly the weapons within the original meaning of the original right as it applies to a final check on Government abuse of power. So are a bunch of other things, but this seems to be the current line we are walking: "yea or nay on AR-15."

I believe the SC has ruled that other AWBs do not run afoul of the Second Amendment, so it's not super surprising and probably a foregone conclusion if that's how this goes from here if the plaintiffs choose to appeal up the chain.

What did Miller say about guns with military purposes? Or should we be using M-16's? Confused.

There's never a rope and an angry mob around when you need one!

They are "around", you just need to motivate them. So far, not enough motivation; good luck with that. Don't forget pitchforks and torches.

Wow. Not sure how someone could determine that an AR-15, AK, or any firearm does not qualify as "arms". Isn't that what this "judge" is saying?

What?

 

[oldguy68]

I guess my typical response to hearing these things..Buy more ammo! Is the correct response!

I figured we as law abiding firearm owners here in MA would loose our rights once again.
So as much as I am disappointed about this ruling I knew they would support their own and the AG.

Oh well, such is the life of a patriot!

Hey, one day at a time. Rome wasn't built in a day and freedom is a never ending fight!

 

[GM-GUY]

I WILL NOT COMPLY; send me a letter (even with serial numbers) - it will go the same place the bump stock letter went; come to my door and demand compliance - the answer is still no; haul me to court to produce the items in question, I will still decline.

 

[Whutmeworry]

I guess my typical response to hearing these things..Buy more ammo! Is the correct response!


Hey, one day at a time. Rome wasn't built in a day and freedom is a never ending fight!

I dig your positive attitude!

 

[nstassel]

These are trying times my compatriots. Trying times indeed.

 

[amm5061]

I WILL NOT COMPLY; send me a letter (even with serial numbers) - it will go the same place the bump stock letter went; come to my door and demand compliance - the answer is still no; haul me to court to produce the items in question, I will still decline.

My AR self identifies as a bolt action.

 

[oldguy68]

If you think we have some tough choices.
Think about the choice of those that will be asked to take them from us will have?

They know it to be an unconstitutional order and that they will have to decide which side of freedom they will fall on.
Betray their oath,their war dead, their family and all that represents the flag of the United States of America.

See my choice is easy. I have spoken with my family about what my stand is.
No prison. No train. No f-in way!

I am a free person and will be so until my last breath!

 

[pdogg77]

If you think we have some tough choices.
Think about the choice of those that will be asked to take them from us will have?

I don't think the choice will be all that tough for them... That's the part that worries me...

 

[lancecolonel]

N.h., maine and Vermont could all use a couple thousand more non liberal voters......it does feel good to make the move to get out. Tough to win a "civilized" war when you're outnumbered 10 to 1.

 

[DispositionMatrix]

If you think we have some tough choices.
Think about the choice of those that will be asked to take them from us will have?

They know it to be an unconstitutional order and that they will have to decide which side of freedom they will fall on.
Betray their oath,their war dead, their family and all that represents the flag of the United States of America.

The police--in Massachusetts? Concern with unconstitutionality or war dead? Any department member or state trooper would gladly drive an MRAP through the front of your house to keep his or her pension.

 

[Wildcard]

The police--in Massachusetts? Concern with unconstitutionality or war dead? Any department member or state trooper would gladly drive an MRAP through the front of your house to keep his or her pension.

It's easier to lie about overtime than to go door to door.

 

[HorizontalHunter]

Will be interesting to see come november what is the effect on politicans who came out pro-confiscation and gun bans.

Nothing in Massachusetts.

Bob

 

[Whutmeworry]

It's easier to lie about overtime than to go door to door.

TOUCHÉ!!!!!

 

[ThePreBanMan]

Dissent is the highest form of patriotism...

 

[Bonesinium]

A judge defends the government making up their own laws based on their own opinions and not facts? Shocking. Who could have seen that coming...

 

[SpaceCritter]

N.h., maine and Vermont could all use a couple thousand more non liberal voters......it does feel good to make the move to get out. Tough to win a "civilized" war when you're outnumbered 10 to 1.

This will only help if these places ESPECIALLY NEW HAMPSHIRE stops letting out-of-staters vote on a meaningless promise that they'll (maybe/mayhaps/perchance) make their primary residence there.

 

[rocket500]

Yes serious. After she extends the ban to all possessed “assault weapons” regardless of when acquired you could be breaking the law as soon as that A/R lower is built into a functional rifle whether you choose to FA10 it or not. She re-interpreted the existing law once and won. What’s to stop her from doing it again?

OR

If she feels this is just too big of a leap for just her then the Legislature re-writes the law.

There’s tens of thousands of these rifles in MA. Think she or the worker’s party are OK with that?

They’re going to be emboldened by this decision. I think a full on semi automatic rifle ban is now a real possibility in MA.

Not sure if serious...
Which law is that? The one where I build a legal stripped lower (not a firearm in MA) into a legal complete lower (not a firearm in MA) ?
Not sure what I would be caught for? Unless they enact a full "turn 'em in" ban and decide to go door to door.... not very confident in that happening. Even then... according to MGL... not a firearm.

 

[E.Stoner]

This all makes me so unhappy. I just finished pulling an all nighter for work and was looking forward to decompressing installing a new race hammer, take a nap, and go shooting
It's my sincere hope that all of this trampling on the natural and constitutional rights of law abiding citizens and the threat of even wider bans (that is the end game here) will not only get people to buy guns in record number but it will get them to out to vote in November. The moonbats will be out inforce for midterms, and the clear and present threat to the 2nd Amendment might just be the rallying cry we need to boost our numbers as well.
Also we desperately need to gain another conservative seat on SCOTUS. This needs to get settled once and for all or this is going to get way worse before it gets better.

 

[drgrant]

If you think we have some tough choices.
Think about the choice of those that will be asked to take them from us will have?

They know it to be an unconstitutional order and that they will have to decide which side of freedom they will fall on.
Betray their oath,their war dead, their family and all that represents the flag of the United States of America.

See my choice is easy. I have spoken with my family about what my stand is.
No prison. No train. No f-in way!

I am a free person and will be so until my last breath!

Nobody will be deciding much of anything at that level, IMO.

If freedom is going to die itll be a whimper rather than a blaze of glory. I doubt most of us here will see "the black vans" in our lifetime. Well, unless you're a felon in CA of
course... lol.

Antis are going after the long game now. Look at VT- shitty legislation, but mostly toothless. Worst effects - down the line.

Same thing with this AG bullshit, and the stuff that passed in NY, CA, and CT in the past couple years. Little if no effect with current owners. Lots of downstream effects for the
next generation and new gun owners. They want to kill us by attrition.

This is the type of stuff that deters people from arming up, etc.

-Mike

 

[ISOTOX]

Just despicable....

 

[SpaceCritter]

and the clear and present threat to the 2nd Amendment might just be the rallying cry we need to boost our numbers as well.

....which will be mitigated by the degree of fraud employed.

 

[headednorth]

The police--in Massachusetts? Concern with unconstitutionality or war dead? Any department member or state trooper would gladly drive an MRAP through the front of your house to keep his or her pension.

Havent really brought up the subject with the handful of cops I know to one extent or another, but I cant see many around here (eastern MA) siding with the 2A rights of others and putting their jobs, pensions, marriages, etc at risk. ("Honey, I dont give a shit about some stupid amendment or some silly oath they made you take, you have kids to take care of and a mortgage to pay. Get your ass to work and do what they tell you to do or Im leaving and taking the kids with me.") If I had to bet, Id say almost all would do what their told.

 

[John C.]

Judge Young's snarky comment about Scalia is the judicial equivalent of flipping gun owners the bird.

The irony is that he is also flipping Scalia the bird. I am an attorney. I have argued motions before Judge Young (both in Federal Court and when he was a Superior Court judge). I can guarantee you Young is not a Scalia style strict constructionist when it comes to abortion, gay marriage, or a host of other liberal causes. In fact, notwithstanding his assertion that he's being a strict constructionist here, he is not. As Scalia recognizes in Heller, the second amendment is designed to cover arms that are available and in use by the general public. The types of "arms" that would be owned and available to an ordinary citizen when he chose to become part of a well regulated militia. Back then it was muskets. Today, there are millions of AR15's in the hands of ordinary citizens. These are precisely the types of arms one would expect a civilian militia to employ. The fact that these arms are similar to some of the equipment our military uses is irrelevant. It is not a legitimate basis for saying that they are not the type of arms protected by the 2nd Amendment. Our founding fathers would be astonished by the argument that if the musket owned by a Minuteman was similar to the musket used by Redcoat it would not be protected by the 2nd Amendment.

 

[RG Sports]

I’m forcasting build parties .

 

[exo]

I’m forcasting build parties .

AR is easy. AK is a lot more work, unless you are Boris Jedi Master.

 

[GeorgeMason]

Thought to be a unicorn - but such dealers in MA do exist. Some dealers in MA refuse to recognize the edict being proclaimed from on high - which is not MGL.
In fact some are working with more than just lowers. And no - I will not be elaborating on anything additional about fight club.

If you guys don’t know these dealers, find them and SUPPORT them. Stop doing business with those who bend the knee.

 

[Waher]

Thing is the judge just created precedent to allow the state to engage in non-statutory (administrative fiat) punishment to create a chilling effect and inflict damages without recourse from the courts.

I saw this posted on a news website in response to this story on the basis of precedent:

Some politically well-connected developer has his eyes on a piece of real estate (Nashoba Winery). How to ensure a favorable price?

The ABCC announces that it won't renew their operating license when it next comes up a year down the road. Boom. Big cloud over the business. There goes the real estate value. And the business's ability to secure financing. And when the business seeks injunctive relief against the ABCC, the court rules that they have no standing until the ABCC actually denies the license renewal.

This is a legal abomination and that the judiciary and legislature allows it to stand is a testament to the bottom feeding filth they are.

The courts and legislature wrap themselves in the uniforms and trappings of institutions demanding respect while forgetting that the public didn't respect those institutions because of their costumes or edifices, but the ideals said objects were supposed to embody, which these fools have wholeheartedly made a mockery of. They think they deserve respect simply for wearing a costume and taking a title, no differently than a child dressing up like a doctor and expecting everyone to then treat them like a neurosurgeon.

 

[sieveboy]

If you think we have some tough choices.
Think about the choice of those that will be asked to take them from us will have?

They know it to be an unconstitutional order and that they will have to decide which side of freedom they will fall on.
Betray their oath,their war dead, their family and all that represents the flag of the United States of America.

See my choice is easy. I have spoken with my family about what my stand is.
No prison. No train. No f-in way!

I am a free person and will be so until my last breath!

$100K a year plus overtime if desired, flashy rig, extra rights, great benefits, pension...they’re going to fight over who gets the battering ram.

 

[Squire]

This is legal abomination and that the judiciary and legislature allows it to stand is a testament to the bottom feeding filth they are.

For protection against this manifestation of Government is why the Founders wanted the People armed, with the kinds of guns said Government would try to take away.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

AR is easy. AK is a lot more work, unless you are Boris Jedi Master.

AR easier if start with 80% lower. AK easier if starting from scratch or with shovel. (trying to type with Boris dialect). Not AK fan, but unassembled AK in garage - square blade shovel with rotting handle (stock in bad shape).