Worcester T&G: Local police consider value of armed civilians after Texas church shooting

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Worcester Telegram: Local police consider value of armed civilians after Texas church shooting

Once again come out on the side of the 2A.


" ... with the risks faced by people in public places, the adage “If you see something, say something” should now include “If you see something, do something.”

“The world has changed, society has changed, and we have to evolve,” he said.


He said that it is better to have a gun and not need it than to not have a gun when one is needed.

“If a mass shooting incident were to occur, you could either do something about it or become a victim,”"
 
Not all local police feel that way.

Worcester says they will shoot anyone with a weapon:
Worcester Police Chief Steven M. Sargent said having armed civilians along with suspects at a crime scene when police respond can be dangerous for both sides. When police arrive, they are looking for a person with a gun.

“We’re there to neutralize the person with the weapon,” he said.
 
Not all local police feel that way.

Worcester says they will shoot anyone with a weapon:
Yes, because police can't always be expected to have to make good decisions like civilians. That is why all 23 of the responders end up unloading 3 full magazines, into the suspect, and everything around the suspect. Not all cops, I am not anti-cop, but when these things go down, that tends to be how they go down. bullet holes everywhere. In contrast the Texas Civilian Responder, one shot. Cops have to come to understand that we are all in this together, and they are going to need the support, they do not have a monopoly on self-defense.
 
Yeah Chf. Sargent can give a measured response like that but it’s wise to have situational awareness. If you were ever in that situation. How could you expect the popo to know who is the good guy or bad guy? In an active shooter situation you best be careful and have a dual offensive/defensive purpose:
1. neutralize the threat
2. watch out for friendly fire

We’ve all watched enough vids to see where it goes. With three parties on a scene things will get pretty crazy.

Still, Sargent gets his marching orders from Lew and I’m glad to live in Worcester County with many 2A supportive chiefs while I’m still in Ma.
 
Not all local police feel that way.

Worcester says they will shoot anyone with a weapon:


That is why you need to be mentally prepared for these situations. If you or someone you know has called 911 try to give them the description of the good guys. Be prepared to holster your weapon and keeps your hands visible when LEO's arrive. Or take cover if there is still a threat. Whatever you need to do to make it home.

Be prepared for things to be unpleasant while it gets sorted out.
 
I just sent this to the chief.

Its not my best. But its fine for a quickie.

One note. His email address is not public. But a quick google search of APD email addresses shows that their format is

[email protected]

You should be able to derive his email from that. I don't want to write it out because that will subject him to spam.


Dear Chief Sluckis,

I just got finished reading the article in the Telegram about the church shooting in TX. To say that your attitude regarding lawfully armed and trained citizens is a breath of fresh air would be a massive understatement.

As a Boston area transplant, competitive shooter, shooting instructor, hunter, and one time FFL, I was shocked at how anti-gun Eastern MA is. Although its funny, When a local paper did a FOIA request of the number of LTCs in our town (Arlington) they were stunned at how many there were.

As a shooter and member of Harvard Sportsmen's Club, I know several cops. They are all pro-gun. But yet most chiefs are anti-gun. I understand that being a chief is a political position and to survive in MA you need to play anti-gun politics, but the unanimity with which MA chiefs oppose gun ownership is startling.

Except for you.

So like I said, thank you again. I hope you had a wonderful Chirstmas and a Happy New Year.

Sincerely,
 
If anyone has the time, the comments section there on T&G could use some help

... How could you expect the popo to know who is the good guy or bad guy?
...

I would guess when the police show up, they say "drop your weapon", if it has not already been dropped. Only the good guys and smart bad guys will do so.



... Still, Sargent gets his marching orders from Lew and I’m glad to live in Worcester County with many 2A supportive chiefs while I’m still in Ma.

The Worcester County Sheriff does not give "marching orders" to any police chief, to the best of my knowledge. His realm is that of the Worcester County House of Corrections, as far as I know, and that is it.
 
If anyone has the time, the comments section there on T&G could use some help



I would guess when the police show up, they say "drop your weapon", if it has not already been dropped. Only the good guys and smart bad guys will do so.





The Worcester County Sheriff does not give "marching orders" to any police chief, to the best of my knowledge. His realm is that of the Worcester County House of Corrections, as far as I know, and that is it.
If that’s the case then I need to brush up on my local .gov education.
 
If anyone has the time, the comments section there on T&G could use some help

I tried... but I don't have an account in anything that website likes for me to login.

I was trying to post this:
This is good. People need to realize that the idea that Law Enforcement is going to save you (or that government in general will save you) is LAUGHABLE and demonstrably false. Good on these Chiefs for speaking up and pointing out the truth. Chief Sergeant is just a politician, so you can safely disregard his opinion. I've seen Worcester cops (along with many other cops) shoot... they aren't trained to a standard that puts the average firearms owner to shame WHATSOEVER. If you saw the firearms training regimen of most cops you'd laugh.... My source? I'm a law enforcement firearms instructor ;)
 
I would expect to get ventilated by a cop if he comes into an active shooter situation and sees an armed civilian. Neutralize the threat and reholster, or lay low in good cover with sight lines if possible, and have it accessible, but not visibly so.
 
Just so I am clear... if the situation ever comes up..
if I happen to be some place where say 4 guys are beating the crap out of a police officer Who is down on the groun. As at this point that has become a very real possibility..

if I am in Worcester, or another of a like mind set. I whip out my phone and video the whole thing.. in Auburn, and other like mind sets. I draw and try to help the down officer..

Is that about right?
 
Just so I am clear... if the situation ever comes up..
if I happen to be some place where say 4 guys are beating the crap out of a police officer Who is down on the groun. As at this point that has become a very real possibility..

if I am in Worcester, or another of a like mind set. I whip out my phone and video the whole thing.. in Auburn, and other like mind sets. I draw and try to help the down officer..

Is that about right?

Oh I'm sure teh War-chester-Shireeee chief will charge you with obstruction, accessory and 15 other violations and have you beaten in lock-up. I think in Worcester, you just run away.

Alas, this is 100% Bs'ing because we both know neither of us would be caught in those parts of Worcester in the first place. ;)
 
Just so I am clear... if the situation ever comes up..
if I happen to be some place where say 4 guys are beating the crap out of a police officer Who is down on the groun. As at this point that has become a very real possibility..

if I am in Worcester, or another of a like mind set. I whip out my phone and video the whole thing.. in Auburn, and other like mind sets. I draw and try to help the down officer..

Is that about right?

Isn't that what we are told to do in Massachusetts -- wait for the cops and be a good witness? So in your scenario, standing around watching and making a video of the event would be consistent with expectations.
 
that's why my gun is to protect me and mine. If something goes down I am looking for the exit unless it is not a possibility. The police can feel free to go in and get shot up by someone I could have neutralized. Not my job. My guns are for self defense. I'm not a cop and I don't plan to play one even if other people are dying. They probably voted for gun control anyway. Let them live or die with the consequence.
 
Just so I am clear... if the situation ever comes up..
if I happen to be some place where say 4 guys are beating the crap out of a police officer Who is down on the groun. As at this point that has become a very real possibility..

if I am in Worcester, or another of a like mind set. I whip out my phone and video the whole thing.. in Auburn, and other like mind sets. I draw and try to help the down officer..

Is that about right?

Fair is fair.
In my town I'm jumping in as they have always be right by me.

Years ago we had a young gent move into the neighborhood who was a bit of a problem child.
One day I explained the good neighbor policy to him.

If you are a good neighbor and I see smoke coming out of your house I call the fire department and run over to help.
If you are a bad neighbor I grab a lawn chair and a cooler for the show.

If you are a good neighbor and I hear someone screaming for help , I run over .
If you are a bad neighbor I turn up the TV .

He got the point.
 
Years ago, I figured that sooner or later a citizen CCW responder would accidentally shoot innocent bystanders or responding police would shoot the civilian CCW citizen. That's a pretty rare event, it seems. I can only recall the black security gun who was kneeling on another gun, gun drawn, and got shot by responding police. No SECURITY patch on his black jacket - just a black man with a gun on top of another guy. Even the anti-gunners don't bring that one up...

Of the 100Ks of defensive gun uses in the US yearly, most are unreported and don't involve shots fired. There are probably no witnesses, or none willing to come forward. The police make fewer mistakes than they could but citizen CCW responders in public shooting events are even more rare than such public shooting events.

As long as there are Gun-Free Zones, being elsewhere while CCWing is a good bet.
 
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