Women and shooting

[SKS Ray]

I was surprised to see women at the NES shoot today blasting away with some of the high powered stuff. I know NES has some female members so I expected a few but it got me to thinking... how did you get into shooting?
I've tried to get my wife into it but shes only gone to the range with me once. She enjoyed shooting my Ruger .22 target pistol but when she asked to try my Glock 19 she was instantly turned off because a shell flew straight up out of the ejection port and clunked her on top of the head.
She didn't want to shoot it anymore after that and opted for the Ruger which was fine by me. Problem is, I can't get her to go to the range with me anymore, even if just for .22 shooting. I even had my daughter out in the backyard with me shooting my .17 Benjamin Sheridan air pistol at tin cans. She loved it, but also won't go to the range for anything.
So I'm wondering... how did you ladies get into shooting?

 

[reinbeau]

I dunno, I think it's something that might come with being a bit of a tomboy when I was growing up. I've always enjoyed things traditionally thought of as male only, like hot rods, motorcycles, guns, camping, all that good stuff. I've often said I like boy toys, but not toy boys . There's satisfaction when you place a good shot. Greg didn't have to cajole me into it.

As for the shells hitting your wife on the head, that bothers a few women I've shot with. She needs to wear a baseball cap type hat, that'll keep them out of her hair. Maybe she would enjoy a womans' only shoot? Some women don't like to have their significant other around when they're first learning, they're a bit intimidated, only in that they don't want to look dumb or incompetent and fumbling a bit. Not that they're at all dumb, but....well, do you know what I mean? I don't feel that way, but some do.

Ranges are such men's clubs, and that's fine, I don't want to change that (yes, I know, women are welcome and are members, but....it's dusty and grimey and can be startlingly loud if you aren't familiar with it all) They aren't girl friendly, and too many women are (come on, admit it), girly-girls. I never have been. I mentioned today that Anastasia had 'prettied' up her 1911. Someone (I think it was Dennis) said "Oh, painted it pink and frilly" and Ana and I both laughed. She took off the grips, polished it up and put black grips on it - it's gorgeous! Not at all girly, but that's what so many think of girls, I guess

I also want to be able to defend myself if I ever (perish the thought) need to. I know I'm at a size disadvantage, I try to keep aware, be prepared, when out and about on my own. Knowing how to handle a gun just goes along with it for me. I know when the 'feces hit the oscillating device' (thanx, Scott! ) it's ultimately up to me, and I want to be able to handle it.

Don't know if any of this helps, but I hope so. She'd have a blast once she got into it. Nevermind the fact that it's something you both can share. Good luck with it...

 

[vellnueve]

bribes?

 

[matt]

Some women don't like to have their significant other around when they're first learning, they're a bit intimidated, only in that they don't want to look dumb or incompetent and fumbling a bit. Not that they're at all dumb, but....well, do you know what I mean? I don't feel that way, but some do.

Nobody want's to look like they don't know what they are doing. I remember my first times at the range I was afraid I'd make some silly mistake, trying franticly to remember all the things I learned in the BP class.

For our wives, that don't really get into it, they'll always be unsure of how to handle the gun, etc. and have that discomfort associated with it, until they go enough to gain some proficiency.

Perhaps suggesting your wife take a good class where she won't be THE ONE who doesn't know what's what. In a class you have permission ask questions you think are stupid, etc and this may make her more comfortable.

Or, you're wife may just not like shooting enough to think it is worth the time. My wife enjoys it, but we need a baby sitter to both go to the range and she'll be darned if she's going to waste a baby sitter on going to the range!

Matt

 

[Migmojo]

My wife told she would take a firearms class if I did more yoga with her. I can see the future, more ammo purchases and less back aches.....yee hah!

 

[K-DUB]

Millsurps, I'm not sure where you live, but if your lovely bride would like to come to one of the ladies meets/shoots, she's more than welcome to come as my guest. The Braintree club graciously hosts the SAS meetings on the third Saturday of the month, if she's interested. Tell her to at least give it a shot (no pun intended).

As for how I got into it: I started shooting in my mid 20's, & really enjoy it. I am also a bit of a tomboy (duh). I drive a Peterbilt, ride motorcycles, weld, run heavy equipment, etc.... Definitely not a "girly-girl". I have 2 sisters that are girly-girls though. One of them enjoys coming to the range once in a while, & shooting my small .38 Chief Spl. She doesn't seek out the opportunity, but if I invite her & she has no other plans, she'll usually go. However, wild horses couldn't drag my other sister to the range. Not that she has anything in particular against it, but she just doesn't see the need for guns, & can't be bothered to go to the range. I guess it's a personality thing.

Good luck convincing your wife to take up shooting!

 

[EddieCoyle]

Milsurps,

Some people (men or women) like shooting, some don't. My ex-wife HATED guns until one day when I got her to the range and she started hitting stuff with a .22 rifle. She was really getting into it, starting to see why I thought it was fun. Then, like a moron, I asked her if she wanted to try my 12 gauge. She asked, "Does it kick a lot?" I honestly answered, "No, it's not bad." She fired one round of weak low-brass No. 9 shot, then dropped the gun and wobbled around crying like Nancy Kerrigan (Why, why, why...). To this day, I think my inability to keep a straight face cost me my marriage (well, that and a lot of other stuff). She never wanted to shoot anything again.


Why don't you ask her why she doesn't want to go to the range? Her reasons might not have anything to do with shooting. A girl I hang out with likes to go shooting and used to go to the range with me a couple of times per month until recently.

In fact, she was the only woman I'd ever met that would empty the mag on my Saiga 12, shoot the S&W 500, and end up smiling ear-to-ear (until today... Hey K-Dub).

I asked her why she didn't like going to the range anymore and she said it was because the guy that had been hanging around there the last couple of times gave her the creeps, and the women's bathroom was disgusting.

Since then, I've ensured that the ladies room was properly cleaned, and have take steps to get rid of Cap'n Creepy. All is now well, and she's back at it.

 

[Twigg]

I had to coax & cajole MrsTwigg into coming along and trying a.22 rifle and some other guns. She does not like shotguns !
Well, except for the .410 I got for my son. She has tried my Ruger 22-45 & S&W40VE. She seems to prefer handguns (OK-by me).
She'll be taking the Basic pistol class starting next week.

I'll be cooking and doing the dishes for a while but if that's what it takes... I'll be happy to do it !

 

[vellnueve]

Or, you're wife may just not like shooting enough to think it is worth the time. My wife enjoys it, but we need a baby sitter to both go to the range and she'll be darned if she's going to waste a baby sitter on going to the range!

Perfect reason to start him/her early.

 

[drgrant]

I think there are a whole bunch of factors why women do or do
not shoot..... and they don't apply to "just" women either.

Much of it is mindset. If a man or a woman tells themselves that they
-want- to learn how to shoot a gun, and become acclimated to doing it, and
even deriving enjoyment from it, then they will do so.

Mindset is VERY important in the case of people who have zero experience
with guns and the like.

I have a very close friend of mine who just got her LTC-A. I took her
shooting one day over a year ago, and it went from there. But you know
what the kicker was? I was talking about going shooting with another
friend of hers, and she was like "I wanna go shoot a gun someday."

At first she was a bit nervous, but I did a -lot- of coaching to help her
gain familiarity and comfort with the guns we were going to be shooting.

That being said, I think my point is... she -wanted- to do it. That makes
all the difference in the world. Getting others involved in our hobby is
a lot easier when they express a willingness to learn!

Other than mindset, there is some other funny stuff.. and some of it is
expectations set out ahead of time. When I first started shooting,
my friend handed me a MAADI AK semi clone and a full magazine. An AK was
the FIRST gun I had fired! The experience was rather mind blowing, which
I was sort of expecting. I had inadequate hearing protection which didn't
help either.... I didn't get scared off though, and if only for one
reason... that reason being that I sort of -expected- that it was going to
be like that. Prior to going shooting for the first time, I had done a lot
of research over the years on firearms, how they work, stuff like that...
seen videos of people firing REAL guns, etc. So I had a least a
partial picture of what the experience was going to be like. I also had
a basic working knowledge of how the guns themselves worked, which
improved my confidence with them. I knew before even touching a
real gun for the first time, that all the hollywood myths were BS. Most
folks, however, have not prepared themselves as such, and I can easily
see how, though, putting some people in that position would lead to a sensory
overload of sorts. So it is always best to "ease" a new shooter in, as opposed
to going to the "shock and awe" effect right off the bat. Stick to low noise/recoil
stuff to begin with... and then offer to let them shoot other guns, but only if THEY
want to. A lot of time spent ahead of time doing non-live fire exercises is also
valuable. If the beginner is confident with basic gun handling/safety thats one less
thing they'll anxiety about when they get to the line and fire a shot for the first time.


-Mike

 

[MrsWildweasel]

Uncle Sam. Just made me want to shoot more.

 

[Bugs100]

I started my wife out with a 38 revolver with rubber grips. good muffs and new safety glasses. Then I got her a 617 10 shot 4 inch and a single barrel 20 gauge berretta.

She will shoot a semi once in a while and likes a 1911 best. But they really are not some thing she's crazy about and pefers the revolvers.

She just passed the Boston Police test at Moon Island and joined the Braintree gun club on a family membership wth me.

She really likes Trap shooting with the little berretta and is content just shooting 38's and the 22.

 

[Weerd Beard]

Mrs. Weer'd got bonked with a shell from my 1911, and that really rattled her cage.

The only gun in my collection she like is my Marlin Mod. 60, because it's easy for her to handle, and has no recoil, and it puts the rounds right where she wants them.

dunno if she'll ever get much into it....but I know if I push her she'll just push back harder a stubborn girl she is.

I'd like to get a Car 15 in her hands at some point. I think the "real gun" feel + the accuracy and low recoil might appeal to her.

Arrrr

-Weer'd Beard

PS: Great shooting by the ladies at the pumpkin shoot. I wouldn't be suprised if the females ate more .500 mag rounds than the males!!

 

[JonJ]

Years ago I took my wife out with a .22 rifle and she had fun but that was as far as her interest went.
A couple of years ago, she expressed and interest in shooting pistol but she never acted on it and I didn't hound her about it. Last year, I enrolled my daughter into a 6 or 8 week youth riflery program at the Plymouth R&G. My wife tagged along and I volunteered as a coach. That bit of exposure re-sparked my wife's interest but again she wouldn't act.
I took her to a couple guns shows (bribed her with lunch).
Yesterdays pumpkin shoot was just what she needed to get on the firing line. She shot the High Standard pistol and complained that she couldn't see the pumpkin getting hit. She asked for something bigger so I gave her my S&W 4043. She ran a few mags through after the initial shock of the first round. The she ran a few mags through Cledus Crabb's Springer 1911. She loved the 1911's lighter trigger compared with the 4043 but she's not crazy about the recoil. She settled back in with the High Standard and likes it.
Once I showed her how to use the Hi-Point carbine with the red-dot, forget about it! She wouldn't put it down!
Our daughter loved the High Standard and the carbine too.
On the way home, they asked if we could go shooting today!

The thing is, they have to want to do it and you can't push them. If the spark is there, kindle it but don't force it. Let them do it on their own time and make it comfortable for them.
Next step is to get Barb to get certified and get her in for her LTC/ALP.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Congrats to all, but most especially Jon and Barb! Too bad we couldn't have been there!

For folks that aren't excited about shooting, shooting "interactive" targets is absolutely the way to go! Seeing a pumpkin, soda can, plastic bottle of water explode might just push them over the edge. Putting small holes in a piece of paper is not likely to do it for those folks.

As for women in particular, here's some of my thoughts from personal experience and reading over the years. [PLEASE NOTE: I am speaking in "generalities", NOT all women are like this, just like not all men are the same. But these are issues that must be addressed for women and if they affect you or your SO, they must be dealt with to gain their confidence and comfort with firearms.]

- Women are usually brought up to be "nurturers", not "hunter/gatherers" (men) and thus "destroying things" or learning to "kill" are not things that fit (the majority of) women's comfort zone.

- Women usually have smaller hands and less muscular arms. Upper body strength is a physiological issue here. This makes many guns feel uncomfortable in their hands and they react negatively to the recoil a lot quicker than most men do.

- Women usually have longer hair than men and this can affect the seal that earmuffs give, leading to more noise exposure and more discomfort with being around shooting/shooters. No perfect solution here, but be aware and try to get as much hair out from under the earmuff cups as possible.

- Hot brass. Personal experience is that women are a lot more sensitive than men to being hit with hot brass, even if it is only on the arm. Clothing matters a lot here! Even with a high scoop neck top, my Wife ended up with a .22LR case down her shirt the last time we shot (a week ago, just before her hand surgery). The case bounced off the shooting bay partition at BR&P and "plop"! Personally I have a few scars from hot brass over the years as well, I've just never done St. Vita's Dance (sp?) when it happened.

- Everyone should wear a hat while shooting, all the time. Minimizes hot brass getting between glasses and cheek, and even can deflect brass that otherwise might go down a shirt.

First impressions count, A LOT, for first time shooters. My Wife still remembers how she HATED riflery as a kid at summer camp. According to her, they "made them" shoot these big rifles which were bigger than she was (her words) and very loud. Obviously .22LR DCM rifles given to the camps . . . we used them at Boy Scout Camp at Myles Standish (long gone). Back then nobody wore ear protection and my Wife's hearing (recently tested) is extremely sensitive (audiologist told her that she had the hearing of an 18 year old)!

So Deena started out immediately with "I hate it, it's too heavy, it's too loud" for a first impression. Although she had a LTC-A/ALP (or earlier equivalent) for ~28 years at my insistence, she only shot a handful of times over all those years until a few years ago she took an all women, full day familiarization class given by SAS at BR&P. She loved it, but due to carpal tunnel issues, she didn't follow it up. Suddenly one Sunday morning at BR&P as we were having breakfast, she decided to join the club, join SAS and asked about GOAL (I'm a Sustaining Member and GOAL Activist, but she never followed up on this). It was totally out of "left field" to me!

She did start going to the SAS practice sessions at BR&P, bought a couple of guns for herself and shot with me as well, but the carpal tunnel and tendinitis was a serious impediment. Since her first surgery, she's become dis-interested again and only with major coaxing has she shot the .22 pistol. Now that she had her second surgery last week, we'll have to see what happens.

 

[Lynne]

I came to shooting in a not so hot way...I was a victim. Now, that being said, I'm really glad I found it no matter what the cause was. Besides giving me my life and freedom back, I also discovered that it's tons of fun and a great stress reliever.

 

[MrsWildweasel]

I will agree with Len on how some guns fit womens hands.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I will agree with Len on how some guns fit womens hands.

First time I heard/saw this was when Mas Ayoob gave a seminar for AWARE. He pulled a lady from the audience and demonstrated what he was talking about.

A big mistake men make is "picking" the gun for a woman . . . and ass-u-me (ing) that she'll like it and it will fit her hand. Best way to "turn off" a woman towards shooting!!

 

[MrsWildweasel]

Glenn's lost a few because they fit my hand.

 

[MrsWildweasel]

That is also one thing Glenn has never done is picked a gun for me. I always pick it. Mainly because if it's not comfortable for me then I don't want it nor would I probably shoot it more than once or twice.

 

[JonJ]

Well I picked the HS pistol out for Barb but I knew if she didn't like it, I would. Actually, she had no idea what she'd want. I figured I couldn't lose if the grip was narrow and there was no recoil. The Ruger MK(whatever) fit and so did the HS. I liked the price and warranty of a S&W 22A but the grip is just way to fat and I knew that it wouldn't be comfortable for her.
She liked the feel of Scott's 1911 and commented that she wouldn't mind shooting that again. Should I tell her that I have one stashed away? She thinks it's my service pistol, ya know they all look alike, it's "silver", black "things on the handle...."

 

[K-DUB]

In fact, she was the only woman I'd ever met that would empty the mag on my Saiga 12, shoot the S&W 500, and end up smiling ear-to-ear (until today... Hey K-Dub).

Hey, right back at 'ya. I'm still smiling ear-to-ear! Thanks again for letting me try both of those....they're now on my "must have" list.

 

[SiameseRat]

I have to agree with the tomboy thing. I had more GI Joes than dolls when I was growing up. When I was a toddler instead of carrying around a doll or stuffed animal like most little girls I had a Tonka truck that went EVERYWHERE with me. There has to be an inclination to these sorts of hobbies.

For the men whose wives don't have an interest in shooting, think of her hobbies. Does she knit/sew/scrapbook/bake? Not too interesting to you, right? As long as she isn't against your shooting, then all is well. Though I agree it would be nice to have more women out on the range.

The MRA has a Women's shoot every year and there's a Fun Shoot coming up in a few weeks. Bring your wife to one of these events where she can try pistols, revolvers, shotgun, high power, action shooting, air guns etc. Maybe you just don't have the right guns

 

[The Village Idiot]

When my daughter was 9, I purchased a Marlin .22 w/ scope for her to shoot. She loved it and shot extremely well! This year for her 13th birthday, I bought for her use a Beretta Neos U22. She does just as well. She also shoots my AR-15. Being divorced I needed something that we could do together especially during the winter months. For us at least, shooting has filled the bill.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Sue, like Jon, I picked out the S&W 622 for Deena without her there. I dropped into FS, they had it on consignment and Deena was at work. Like Jon, I knew that in the slim chance that she didn't like it, that I would, so no risk involved. It also was short money considering it had an Ultra-Dot on it.

The Glock 17 and S&W 64 were guns that she picked out and bought herself.

But given a choice, I would never buy a gun for her without her trying it for size in her hand first. Only the .22 was a safe bet since it has multiple uses.

 

[Len-2A Training]

For the men whose wives don't have an interest in shooting, think of her hobbies. Does she knit/sew/scrapbook/bake? Not too interesting to you, right? As long as she isn't against your shooting, then all is well. Though I agree it would be nice to have more women out on the range.

My rationale for pushing the issue a bit is three-fold:

- We have guns in the house. Thus from a safety point of view, I want to make sure that Deena knows how to use them or clear them.

- If something ever happens to me, she needs to be able to know how to secure the weapons, make them safe and transport them back home both safely and legally.

- I want us to be able to spend time outdoors (mostly) and do something together. We used to be in the Jaycees together and spend 5-6 evenings out together each week! That's more than a bit excessive these days, but the Jaycees are gone from here and we are now "aged out" anyway. The other groups I currently belong to (and aren't dead) are men only (wouldn't be if it was my choice) or technical (computer user group I run) and of no interest to her. Deena no longer belongs to any outside groups and tends to work too late each day so that she couldn't attend meetings anyway. Weekends are all we have together and usually filled with social events.

 

[bpm990d]

For the men whose wives don't have an interest in shooting, think of her hobbies. Does she knit/sew/scrapbook/bake?

These all sound fine to me. Just don't make me go to book club.

B

 

[KMaurer]

These all sound fine to me. Just don't make me go to book club.

I suppose it would all depend on what the book was, wouldn't it.

Jeff Cooper - Principles of Personal Defense?

Ken

 

[dwarven1]

I have to agree with the tomboy thing.[snip]There has to be an inclination to these sorts of hobbies.

This doesn't explain my niece, however... She's definitely NOT a tomboy! Maybe it's because she likes to spend time with her crazy uncle...

 

[TY43215]

I taught my wife to shoot a long time ago. She never really enjoyed it. My daughter shoots but working a full time and 2 part time job it doesn't leve her much time. The boys tend to get in the way too

My wife decided long ago she has no interest any more and that is fine with me.

I have taught many women to shoot and find that when they have the basics down and can start to feel comfortable, they usually enjoy it.

The greatest problem I see in shooting with women is the offensive language of some men. The women get turned off to the sport and many take a position that it is a man's sport. Nothing further from the truth.


Just one observation,