woman was robbed this am at market basket

[jenlynn724]

But, I have to ask... what the hell good would a CCW have done in that particular situation? Then the perp would have had himself a sweet new piece to go along with the cash and cards! It's all about situational awareness, and keeping a gun in your purse will not fix that!

Why are you assuming her gun would have been in her purse? I carry a gun and a purse, and the gun is never in the purse..

 

[Terminator03]

Indeed, your best defense is your mind and observational skills. Im not a tremendous fan of crowds, so if I go to a festival or concert, Im usually rocking sunglasses, watching everyone, watching their hands in particular. I've been accused of checking out women...well yeah, but am also watching the crowd.

I hear you, as my wife always accuses me of being "nosy", when she is not accusing me of checking out other women, just because a good looking specimen happens to cross in the general direction I am looking at a given time. I may be a bit paranoid, but there is very little detail-wise that gets by me in any place I attend.

 

[Terminator03]

Why are you assuming her gun would have been in her purse? I carry a gun and a purse, and the gun is never in the purse..

Good point, I guess I made an assumption there, but generally speaking, if a woman is wearing a dress, most likely she will not be carrying IWB.

 

[tigersplint]

Good point, I guess I made an assumption there, but generally speaking, if a woman is wearing a dress, most likely she will not be carrying IWB.

Or IS she?

 

[Force]

Good point, I guess I made an assumption there, but generally speaking, if a woman is wearing a dress, most likely she will not be carrying IWB.

I dunno, they must make a holster for that!

Let's phrase this as a newbie non-lawyer question.... If I have a CCW and I witness some punk stealing a purse (but he does not show a weapon of any kind, nor is he threatening me directly), is that sufficient cause to draw a gun on him? I'm guessing not.

 

[Tara]

Why are you assuming her gun would have been in her purse? I carry a gun and a purse, and the gun is never in the purse..

Yup. My purse, when I carry it, isn't big enough to hold my gun.
If I take one step away from my cart, the purse comes with me. I'd hate to have to smack someone with a rack of ribs or a can of soup for trying to steal my purse, so it's just become a habit to pick it up when I step away.

 

[ARV]

It was redundant...

 

[davemata]

One day a number of years ago I'm in Shaw's and see a woman with her purse hung cross-body and I chuckled to myself that she had to be a cop's wife.

Yeah that was the direction of the conversation my fiancee and I had on the bus in to MIT this morning (I love working in the Stata in the spring...), and she said, "That's why I keep my bag on me and zipped up." So I responded good, so they'll have to knock you down and then punch you in the face a few times to get your bag."

Without missing a beat, she fires back, "That's why I don't put my wallet in the purse."

 

[davemata]

I dunno, they must make a holster for that!

Let's phrase this as a newbie non-lawyer question.... If I have a CCW and I witness some punk stealing a purse (but he does not show a weapon of any kind, nor is he threatening me directly), is that sufficient cause to draw a gun on him? I'm guessing not.

... not in New England. Head to NV to be a cowboy, actually, I think even in NV enough SF dickwads have moved in and made that against the rules.

 

[TWtommers]

Let's phrase this as a newbie non-lawyer question.... If I have a CCW and I witness some punk stealing a purse (but he does not show a weapon of any kind, nor is he threatening me directly), is that sufficient cause to draw a gun on him? I'm guessing not.

Not even close. You cannot use deadly force to protect property in MA. In this situation, the most legal help you could provide would be to act as a good witness recording every detail of the thief. I'm not even sure you could use any force to legally apprehend him (although I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong here).

What you can legally do as a subject of Massachusetts is on thing, what you chose to do as a human being is another story.

 

[Force]

... not in New England. Head to NV to be a cowboy, actually, I think even in NV enough SF dickwads have moved in and made that against the rules.

Thanks for the feedback (and from TWTommers).

As it happens, I live just a few towns away from that store, but my wife only had to go in one time to realize she's never going back, savings be damned!

 

[DickWanner]

I dunno, they must make a holster for that!

Let's phrase this as a newbie non-lawyer question.... If I have a CCW and I witness some punk stealing a purse (but he does not show a weapon of any kind, nor is he threatening me directly), is that sufficient cause to draw a gun on him? I'm guessing not.

No, you can only draw and use a firearm when you or a third party are in fear of serious bodily harm. A firearm cannot be used as a compliance tool by non-LE.

 

[davemata]

Look, a llama.

 

[Kevlar]

I'm not even sure you could use any force to legally apprehend him (although I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong here).

MA law allows a citizen to detain someone who has "in fact committed" a felony, however the standard of proof, and the potential legal ramifications, effectively prevent its practical application...

In Massachusetts a private person may lawfully arrest someone who has in fact committed a felony...The stricter requirement for a citizen's arrest -- that the person arrested be shown in fact to have committed a felony -- is designed to discourage such arrests and to prevent "the dangers of uncontrolled vigilantism and anarchistic actions."...Generally, the person arrested must be convicted of a felony before the "in fact committed" element is satisfied and the arrest validated. If the citizen is in error in making the arrest, he may be liable in tort for false arrest or false imprisonment.

http://masscases.com/cases/app/11/11massappct165.html

 

[bookworm]

How does a mess like this happen? I see by patch this is a Mass. State cop..don't they have to qualify with their weapon on a range and with some physical standards on a yearly basis? This is disgraceful.

 

[TWtommers]

MA law allows a citizen to detain someone who has "in fact committed" a felony, however the standard of proof, and the potential legal ramifications, effectively prevent its practical application...

http://masscases.com/cases/app/11/11massappct165.html

Thanks, Kevlar. That covers detainment but the point that I was making was that even if you meet the requirements of a citizen's arrest, you couldn't use force to employ it. It would go something like "Excuse me, Mr. Purse Grabber, I am placing you under arrest. Please sit in the time out corner until law enforcement arrives." Its an awesome power really. I'm sure he'd comply immediately.

 

[mogarbage]

Bookworm, Police officers sometimes wear street clothes while on the job. But criminals sometimes impersonate police officers—wearing either regular clothes or fake uniforms. The Boston Police Department offers the following tips on how tell a real police officer from an impersonator:

* If the person is wearing a uniform, see if it fits well and displays patches saying “Boston Police,” not “Security” or some other term.
* Look for official police equipment, such as a firearm, handcuffs and police radio.
* If the person is in plainclothes, ask to see the officer’s badge or identification card.
* If you are still uncomfortable, ask the officer to call for a uniformed officer in a marked police car to respond to the scene.
* If the officer refuses, call 911 and report the incident.

What a mind F***

 

[CRSIII]

I could so turn this into a cat thread.

 

[Kevlar]

I'm not even sure you could use any force to legally apprehend him.

...even if you meet the requirements of a citizen's arrest, you couldn't use force to employ it.

I wasn't implying one could use deadly force to effect a citizen's arrest, but that doesn't necessarily preclude the use of non-deadly force to effect the same.

 

[center442]

I'm sorry to hear about that incident at Market Basket. I've taken my wife there a couple of times and the place has been jammed with shoppers each time. My wife claims the pricing is good. The store is big, brightly lit, and clean. Because of its location right at the access ramps to 195 it seems to be pulling people from a very wide area. I'm a couple of towns away and can actually drive there faster than going to the supermarkets on Rte 6.

It is located on the edge of a traditionally bad area. I grew up in the north end of NB, and Washburn street was infamous years ago. Sad to see how the blight has spread northward along Acushnet Ave and Ashley Blvd. What used to be decent middle to lower middle class neighborhoods now look like inner city ghettos. Depressing to witness the change.

 

[jobowker]

I've seen a duty cop there on the weekends in the past. Bet they bring him back as a attempt to be a deterrent.

He's not there to stop purse snatching...he's there to stop someone from cleaning out the store. Any idea how much cash comes into a market basket during the weekend when there's no bank drop?

 

[jenlynn724]

I could so turn this into a cat thread.

the only reason I would understand anyone stealing a purse, is if the woman was carrying this one.. I mean who could resist?

 

[FhvnLT4A]

But, I have to ask... what the hell good would a CCW have done in that particular situation? Then the perp would have had himself a sweet new piece to go along with the cash and cards! It's all about situational awareness, and keeping a gun in your purse will not fix that!

Ter, In this case it would have done her no good IMHO, not because the perp would have had a nice firearm, but because in this Effed up state, I seriously doubt under THESE PARTICULAR circumstances, where the incident happened so quick and suspect was in flight by the time ANYONE could have drawn, that shooting this POS would most likely have ended up in our victim being arrested and charged with murder. Something about paridy of force, fleeing, and a whole bunch of other things that the NES legal experts can post on better than I. I talked to her the day after this happened because she asked me about one firearms training site over another. I explained to her firstly that in this case as you said, had she been handbagging it wouldnt have done any good. I explained to her how part of training would be to understand that CCW would mean she needed to have DIRECT control over her firearm, and that in this case she probably wouldnt have gotten away with using it anyway. I also talked to her about how as others have posted, being a CCW holder means you have to be able to do more than just shoot a gun. It means being more aware of your surroundings and knowing when to shoot and when not to. Again, IMHO, in this case.. a shooting would not have been "clean". By that I mean, justification would have been dificult, shooting clear of others and not having the round strike an innocent also would have been difficult. I did however still encourage her to take a firearms safety course, and to come out to the range with me someday so she could appreciate caliber and weapon size. ( Her first thought was a full sized glock, not what I would consider female CCW worthy). As we all know.. Firearms are as unique and personal a choice as shoes, and what works for some might not for others. I just found it refreshing to find out that two women I know whom I never would thought to have wanted to shoot or learn how, were interested! Now the hard part... to keep them interested, educate them as well as most here are, and get them trained well enough to be able to defend themselves properly.

 

[terraformer]

If she was carrying the purse, the most that the perp did was battery. Not enough to shoot for sure.


ETA: Legal nerds, not legal experts. We actually only have one or two of those experts (the ones with the JDs) left and they don't post much...

 

[jenlynn724]

bri, I carry a full sized Glock..very much female worthy...

 

[GaryO]

The employees at Market Basket sometimes look as sletchy as the bad guys. I found $300 in the parking lot in the Bellingham MB and went o the service desk to report the found money, the girl just said give it to her and she will take care of it. I handed her my cell# and told her if someone comes looking for it and can identify the exact bill count I will give it to them directly. 1/2 hour later a woman called in tears, she thought she lost it for good. My son learned a good lesson that day. Glad one of the employees that don't speak english didn't find it before me.

 

[pdm]

Well if he's coming straight at you... MACE IN THE FACE!

Note: Not serious advice.

 

[FhvnLT4A]

bri, I carry a full sized Glock..very much female worthy...

Yes Dear, but not all women have the ...umm.... upper... frontal... HIDING SPOTS that you do ) .. Shoot, Dorreen could hide a TOW missle launcher in her bra and no one would know...
Terraformer, thank you for the help on that one ...But even though they might not have JDs, there are quite a few people here who are wayyy more read up on law and the way it applies to us here than I am.

 

[boston_007]

NFD... you gotta be shitting me, Im about a mile from there.. PM me and we will do lunch one day!!....


THIS is why we need to blow up all the bridges that lead from NB to Fhvn..... )

If you blow up the bridge how are you going to get to the gentlemans club on Pope's Island?

(sorry for the off topic post)

 

[FhvnLT4A]

If you blow up the bridge how are you going to get to the gentlemans club on Pope's Island?

ITS ON OUR SIDE OF THE DRAWBRIDGE... HEHEHEHEHEHEHE