Woman Shot while on the phone with 911...

I don't know, Keith... sure sounds like having a gun might have helped from what I see here.

Weapon, gloves recovered near scene
By Frank C. Girardot and Bethania Palma, Staff Writers
Article Launched: 03/20/2008 11:23:22 PM PDT

WEST COVINA - Detectives continued their investigation Thursday into the slaying of a 45-year-old woman who was shot to death while on the phone with a 911 dispatcher.

Hsiao Hsu was shot as many as five times inside her home Wednesday in the 19700 block of Cameron Avenue, authorities said Thursday.

Of the five shots, authorities believe two were delivered while Hsu was on the phone with a dispatcher. The shooter apparently chased the woman through her home and continued shooting, they said.


Late Wednesday evening, investigators recovered a gun and a pair of gloves on a semi-private road behind the residence, according to neighbor Irene Marquez, who lives just behind Hsu's home on South Via Caballos.

A wrought iron gate at the home's driveway apparently had to be forced opened by sheriff's deputies who arrived at the crime scene moments after the emergency call, according to Mike McKeehan, of Gate Tronics Systems who was asked to look at the gate by homicide detectives.

A video camera at the gate was apparently in working order, McKeehan said.

Throughout the day, reporters and residents of the neighborhood known as Covina Hills mingled outside the home. Many said there had been a recent string of burglaries in the neighborhood, although a sheriff's sergeant described the area as "quiet."

Outside Hsu's home Thursday, Staci Oh, a friend of the victim, choked up with tears.

"I'm scared to death," she said. "I don't know what to do."

Hsu's husband Robert Chien, 44, remained in seclusion. In August, the couple and their two children moved into the nearly 6,000 square-foot gray slate home that has two basketball hoops and a tennis court, according to public records.

The home was listed for $1.2 million, but Marquez recalled Hsu, who was a Realtor, saying that she and Chien saved the seller from foreclosure, and purchased the home at a bargain price.

An immigrant from Taiwan, Hsu attended university in the United States and had taken to calling herself Michelle, according to Henry Chu of Walnut, a longtime friend.

Chu's wife Angela, owner of AC Real Estate, employed Hsu and holds the listing on Hsu's former home, just around the corner on Quail Valley Lane.

"We all belonged to the Overseas Chinese Youth Association together," Henry Chu said. "My daughter and her daughter did activities together. Most of us in that group have stayed in touch."

Hsu and Chien held a housewarming party in late summer, according Chu.
"There were many people there," he said. "Mostly from our group back then."

Public records indicate Chien is president of A-Top Industries, a computer case manufacturer based in Industry. Matthew Mak, who answered the phone at A-Top on Thursday recalled Hsu as kind and warm.

"She was the best human in the world," Mak said. "She helped all the people around her. She was a very, very nice person, the best."

Although the Chien home is in unincorporated Los Angeles County, West Covina police officials said Thursday that the area north and south of Cortez Street between Grand and Barranca avenues has been relatively crime free since January.

No residential burglaries were reported in the area during all of February through March 19, West Covina police Lt. Dan Brooks said.

"It's not unusual to get no burglaries in that area (over a month)," Brooks said.

A watch commander at the sheriff's Walnut/Diamond Bar Station, which patrols the county area, could only provide anecdotal data Thursday.

"It's been quiet down there," said Sgt. Bret Bodenstedt. "That's a quiet area."

Meanwhile, detectives continued their search for as many as three Latino men seen leaving the crime scene on foot, said sheriff's Lt. Dan Rosenberg.

Rosenberg said he could not discuss how the killers may have entered the property. He added Chien is not considered a suspect.

Neighbors said the couple purchased the new home just before the housing market began to slide and haven't been able to sell the old one.

A Realtor's sign is posted on the front lawn on Quail Valley Lane, and neighbors said Chien was apparently showing that house when his wife was shot.

Residents said Chien liked the house on Cameron because he is an avid tennis player.

Elsie Dahlin described the couple as great neighbors and friendly people.

"Lovely people, and the kids were terrific," she said. "They were a typical, lovely family."

Staff Writer Brian Day contributed to this story
 
Scrivener does bring up a good point.

Plenty of people buy a gun, load it, stick it somewhere for that "just in case" moment.

A tool you don't know how to use is pretty useless. You can't expect to buy a table saw and get a bookcase by setting it up in the garage.

While I do have feelings, I can't help but think that this woman's only plan for emergency was "dial 911". She had no "safe room" to retreat to. She had no plan to deal with an intruder. In fact, her only reaction was panic.

Panic is a immobilizer. It prevents you from acting.

This family didn't need a gun. It needed a survival plan. That plan COULD have employed a gun, but probably didn't have to.

I can't tell you the number of people I've had come up and ask:

"So, what kind of gun should I get to defend my house?"

What's sad is that all the possible steps that could be taken to AVOID having to shoot anyone are rarely ever considered.
 
Hsiao Hsu was shot as many as five times inside her home Wednesday in the 19700 block of Cameron Avenue, authorities said Thursday.

Of the five shots, authorities believe two were delivered while Hsu was on the phone with a dispatcher. The shooter apparently chased the woman through her home and continued shooting, they said.

Based on this new information, a gun may well have helped. IF she had it available and knew how to use it.

If the PD had to force open the gate, how did the criminals get in?
 
While I agree that "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" when it comes to a lot of these incidents, there have beennumerous cases where an individual had:

-Ready access to a loaded gun
-Willingness to use it against the BG

Where they ended up saving their own ass with it. However, lacking at least those two things, I agree that a gun (or any other device for that matter) is not any better than a doorstop.

I agree that in this case, the lady was too busy being paralyzed by fear to "do something". Although we'd all rather see the BG get his lead deficiency addressed, even her locking herself in a room with an exterior window and jumping out of the thing would have probably been an improvement from what transpired there.

-Mike
 
911 isn't a bad thing... for medical emergencies and calling the police after the fact, or if, and only if time allows,
before the fact, to help clean up the mess. [laugh]

-Mike

Even where we live I can give quite a few for instances even for medical emergencies, sure call 911, but it is faster for you to actually get someone to the hospital. We live in the center of town, and it would take over an hour to get someone out here. We don't count on it put it that way.
 
Have read this on a couple forums now and everyone's initial knee-jerk response is about her not being armed or not being able to have a firearm for such a purpose. I can't say i agree completely on this train of thouhgt. Simply having the legal means to have possession of a firearm wouldn't equate to being able to have kept her alive. Even physically having a firearm wouldn't have gauranteed her safety either. While it may have given her a chance it doesn't gaurantee anything. This I do believe is missed by many. The intruder obviously went in with intent and seemed to have little patience before pulling the trigger. Also as mentioned access to the firearm AND having the knowledge to use it in such a situation is also a forgotten aspect as well although it was mentioned here. I find very few on the various firearms forums have very much training at all. Even those with concealed carry permits have just the minimum required for such a permit. maybe ppl put too much emphsis on the simple possession or a firearm and forget about the actual practical training for the same.
The other thing, it seems a lot point a finger at 911/police. How can a officer be at EVERY inident WHEN it's occuring? It's completely unreasonable to even think such a thing.
 
Have read this on a couple forums now and everyone's initial knee-jerk response is about her not being armed or not being able to have a firearm for such a purpose. I can't say i agree completely on this train of thouhgt. Simply having the legal means to have possession of a firearm wouldn't equate to being able to have kept her alive. Even physically having a firearm wouldn't have gauranteed her safety either. While it may have given her a chance it doesn't gaurantee anything. This I do believe is missed by many. The intruder obviously went in with intent and seemed to have little patience before pulling the trigger. Also as mentioned access to the firearm AND having the knowledge to use it in such a situation is also a forgotten aspect as well although it was mentioned here. I find very few on the various firearms forums have very much training at all. Even those with concealed carry permits have just the minimum required for such a permit. maybe ppl put too much emphsis on the simple possession or a firearm and forget about the actual practical training for the same.
The other thing, it seems a lot point a finger at 911/police. How can a officer be at EVERY inident WHEN it's occuring? It's completely unreasonable to even think such a thing.

You're absolutely right...it's totally unreasonable to assume the police can be there for you. This is reason #1 90% of the people on this forum carry. They realize the only thing between them & harm is what they're carrying.

As for training, again, I believe in practice, practice, practice....as most of the forum members do.

That being said, this woman was in a 6000sq ft house. I'm sure there was a phone upstairs. A bedroom with a lock on it, and her behind the bed with a 12ga pump would probably have resulted in a very different outcome.

I believe the problem here may have been cultural rather than anything else.
 
As for training, again, I believe in practice, practice, practice....as most of the forum members do.

That being said, this woman was in a 6000sq ft house. I'm sure there was a phone upstairs. A bedroom with a lock on it, and her behind the bed with a 12ga pump would probably have resulted in a very different outcome.

I believe the problem here may have been cultural rather than anything else.

True that cuturally it wouldn't have made much difference. However, there is a difference between training and "practice, practice, practice." Practice enhances the known ability and techniques regardless of them being proper or not. It further engrains muscle movement into muscle memory. Training enhances one's knowledge and use of techniques for a situation. Additionally, if done correctly, displaces improper techiniques being practiced and replaces them with the proper techniques. bBig difference. Many practice, few get proper training.
 
Training without the proper mindset is a waste of time and money.

However, the proper mindset will win the day even though one may not have attended a single "recognized" defensive school.

One can train without paying someone. Of course, one should attend some formal training if possible. But the training industry has made it an article of faith that one will be disarmed and killed if one does not attend school X or learn technique Y.

Not so.
 
True that cuturally it wouldn't have made much difference. However, there is a difference between training and "practice, practice, practice." Practice enhances the known ability and techniques regardless of them being proper or not. It further engrains muscle movement into muscle memory. Training enhances one's knowledge and use of techniques for a situation. Additionally, if done correctly, displaces improper techiniques being practiced and replaces them with the proper techniques. bBig difference. Many practice, few get proper training.


So, where does it say in the Second Amendment that you need proper training before you can own a gun? Even if they bought the gun for protection, and never fired it, does that mean they are equally less qualified than the attacker who is intent in causing bodily harm? And given this situation, if she could not use a pistol or semi-auto (being in CA), then a shotgun is a very nice point in the vicinity and squeeze.

Please: While I do agree training should be apart of an active conceal carry's routine, where are you suggesting we draw the line? Should only Police Officers and ex-Military carry since they have extensive training?

Bottom line: I honestly do not know if anyone can say how they will react when the SHTF. The only question you have to ask yourself at the end of the day is if you did all that you could to prevent harm from falling on your family. Who knows how this would have turned out: I am not going to be the one to say that she was not qualified to handle a gun, given the outcome.
 
And given this situation, if she could not use a pistol or semi-auto (being in CA),
Minor point here.

There are NO requirements to be licensed to carry in California just to own a pistol to keep in your home for self defense. Just pass your background check, pay your $, and wait their 10 days. No license is involved in this.

There are several semi auto rifles that do not meed the California AW definition. A Mini 14 or Mini 30 with a 20 round magazine is 100% legal in California as it does not have the required number of evil features and is not named on their banned list. You can buy a new Mini 14 just like I described for a handgun, no license required. And if you can find some pre ban 20 rounders in Cali, you are also GTG without any paperwork.
 
Have read this on a couple forums now and everyone's initial knee-jerk response is about her not being armed or not being able to have a firearm for such a purpose. I can't say i agree completely on this train of thouhgt. Simply having the legal means to have possession of a firearm wouldn't equate to being able to have kept her alive. Even physically having a firearm wouldn't have gauranteed her safety either. While it may have given her a chance it doesn't gaurantee anything.
I believe that you're missing our point. Without being armed, she DIDN'T stand a chance. If she HAD been armed, she WOULD have had more of a chance to stay alive than she did unarmed.

That's all we're saying. We are all well aware that a gun is not a magic wand, or a forcefield that keeps one safe from harm - but it DOES offer a fighting chance in situations like this.
 
Which would you rather die holding - a phone while waiting for a response, or a gun while returning fire?
 
Which would you rather die holding - a phone while waiting for a response, or a gun while returning fire?
Given a choice, I'd rather die holding my beloved's hand at some incredibly advanced age, peacefully in bed saying goodbye to all my family and friends.

Of the two choices you offered, however, I'd rather be returning fire... at least then I have the chance of having an honor guard in Valhalla if my fire was accurate!
 
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