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Witnesses say many dead, injured in shooting at New Zealand mosque

jpk said:
NZ is a f***ing mickey mouse gov



Who needs a f***ing legislature when the executive branch can do it with a pen and a phone/royal decree

If thats not tyranny......
Click to expand...

I hate to scare you but I have a feeling that we are all well done over here.
1. Registered
2. Fingerprinted
3. Limited and advised about our future

Libs have it down better than us!
 
NHCraigT said:
Clarifications on the NZ Ban: A closer look at New Zealand's new weapons ban
Click to expand...
There’s a bit of a gap between What’s Banned: AR-15s/30rd Mags and What’s Not: 22lrs/10rd Tubular attached Mags - what do I think the bright line will be anything >22lr, >10rd tubular mags with any “feature” (Pistol grip, muzzle device, etc.).

Every year they *don’t* have a mass killing will prove the ban works. Any mass killing at all proves they have to “crack down” harder on guns.
 
Why Can’t We Pass Gun Laws Like New Zealand?
The difference in comparing the U.S. and New Zealand rests on some of the countries’ other characteristics. New Zealand does not have the right of gun ownership written into its constitution, which, no matter how you interpret the Second Amendment, certainly is an advantage in broad gun reform. The gun culture of New Zealand is not as steeped in its foundational myths as the gun culture of the U.S. is. Lobbying is not a constitutional right in New Zealand—it’s treated as somewhere between curiosity and a potentially pernicious phenomenon. Political campaign funding has lately become an issue, but it is not the case that donors have great sway over elected officials. There’s no powerful gun lobby to influence elections because even the political party contesting the most seats in the general election spends less than NZ$3 million (a little more than $2 million).

But with all those differences noted, a major factor in American democratic dysfunction is the sheer size of its demographics. It is hard to be a government for the people and by the people when the number of people approaches a third of a billion.
---------------
On the plus side, our enormity and our strength do mean that when we get something right, even a little right, the benefits to us and to the world can be enormous. We’re like a huge conglomerate that might have a profit margin of only 1 percent, but we make up for it in volume. Then again, when we get it wrong, even when we get it a little wrong, even when the question is tough, it reverberates far and wide. Think of the Arab Spring. It was a legitimately tough call to decide which rulers to back, which insurgencies to oppose, whom to topple, whom to grudgingly support in the name of stability, and whom to attempt to weaken in the name of freedom. The U.S. certainly misstepped along the way, all hard-to-avoid errors that have far greater consequence than anything Sweden, Norway, Iceland, or New Zealand ever has the opportunity to accomplish.
------------------------------------------
The New Zealand Constitution | New Zealand Now
We do not have a grand, overarching constitutional document like the Constitution of the USA. But we do have a constitution - it is just made up of different tools of power.

As in many countries with a heritage of British-style government, our constitution is spread across a range of formal documents, decisions and conventions. These include:

  • Acts of Parliament
  • legal documents (‘Letters Patent’)
  • decisions of the Courts
  • generally accepted practices or ‘conventions’.
Put together, these define what the major institutions of government are, what powers they have and how they can use them.

New Zealand is a parliamentary democracy
Many countries these days have a President. That can be a powerful role, as it is in the USA or South Africa, or it can be a more ceremonial role, as it is in Germany or Israel.

Other countries, like the UK and Malaysia, have a King or Queen whose role is also mainly ceremonial.

New Zealand’s constitutional setup is more like that of the UK and similar to what you will find in Australia and Canada.
 
10thSFFD said:
Why Can’t We Pass Gun Laws Like New Zealand?
The difference in comparing the U.S. and New Zealand rests on some of the countries’ other characteristics. New Zealand does not have the right of gun ownership written into its constitution, which, no matter how you interpret the Second Amendment, certainly is an advantage in broad gun reform. The gun culture of New Zealand is not as steeped in its foundational myths as the gun culture of the U.S. is. Lobbying is not a constitutional right in New Zealand—it’s treated as somewhere between curiosity and a potentially pernicious phenomenon. Political campaign funding has lately become an issue, but it is not the case that donors have great sway over elected officials. There’s no powerful gun lobby to influence elections because even the political party contesting the most seats in the general election spends less than NZ$3 million (a little more than $2 million).

But with all those differences noted, a major factor in American democratic dysfunction is the sheer size of its demographics. It is hard to be a government for the people and by the people when the number of people approaches a third of a billion.
---------------
On the plus side, our enormity and our strength do mean that when we get something right, even a little right, the benefits to us and to the world can be enormous. We’re like a huge conglomerate that might have a profit margin of only 1 percent, but we make up for it in volume. Then again, when we get it wrong, even when we get it a little wrong, even when the question is tough, it reverberates far and wide. Think of the Arab Spring. It was a legitimately tough call to decide which rulers to back, which insurgencies to oppose, whom to topple, whom to grudgingly support in the name of stability, and whom to attempt to weaken in the name of freedom. The U.S. certainly misstepped along the way, all hard-to-avoid errors that have far greater consequence than anything Sweden, Norway, Iceland, or New Zealand ever has the opportunity to accomplish.
------------------------------------------
The New Zealand Constitution | New Zealand Now
We do not have a grand, overarching constitutional document like the Constitution of the USA. But we do have a constitution - it is just made up of different tools of power.

As in many countries with a heritage of British-style government, our constitution is spread across a range of formal documents, decisions and conventions. These include:

  • Acts of Parliament
  • legal documents (‘Letters Patent’)
  • decisions of the Courts
  • generally accepted practices or ‘conventions’.
Put together, these define what the major institutions of government are, what powers they have and how they can use them.

New Zealand is a parliamentary democracy
Many countries these days have a President. That can be a powerful role, as it is in the USA or South Africa, or it can be a more ceremonial role, as it is in Germany or Israel.

Other countries, like the UK and Malaysia, have a King or Queen whose role is also mainly ceremonial.

New Zealand’s constitutional setup is more like that of the UK and similar to what you will find in Australia and Canada.
Click to expand...

Good overview on the differences....thanks!
 
7jae.jpg
 
10thSFFD said:
Yes. It worked, unfortunately.
Iran
View attachment 275448

Opinion: Jacinda Ardern is getting things right in New Zealand | DW | 21.03.2019
View attachment 275449

When defenseless people are killed by terrorists, the general sense of consternation and shock can often be paralyzing. Politicians take refuge in platitudes. Others demand that laws be dramatically tightened, or hold entire societal groups collectively liable for the actions of individuals.

New Zealand — and above all its prime minister, Jacinda Ardern — is an example of how such a terrible, murderous act can be dealt with differently. After the Christchurch attacks, Ardern did a lot of things right. She wore a headscarf when visiting the local Muslim community. She opened the next parliamentary session with the Arabic message of peace, "As-Salaam Alaikum." And she refused to speak the attacker's name. Her message: I am on the side of the Muslim victims. And: Muslims belong to us.

Swift and unbureaucratic

Shortly after the attack by the right-wing extremist, Islamophobic perpetrator, Ardern also announced that gun laws would be tightened, and her government has implemented this change swiftly and unbureaucratically. The new legislation bans the sale and possession of semi-automatic weapons and assault rifles. The government will also buy back such weapons from people who bought them legally. In order to do this, the New Zealand government is preparing to spend the equivalent of €120 million ($140 million).

Sometimes politics can be this simple, this insightful, and this sensible. Ostracize the perpetrator. Name the victims, and give their suffering a voice. And promise them that you will do everything you can to ensure that nothing like this ever happens again — by restricting access to automatic weapons. Because people almost everywhere in the world know that fewer weapons means greater security. (And in places where they don't know it, things seem to go badly wrong nonetheless.)

A quotation from the German poet Friedrich Hölderlin provides a succinct description of what is currently happening in New Zealand: "Where danger is, the rescue grows as well." It's time to thank Prime Minister Ardern for her conduct following the terrorist attack in Christchurch.
Click to expand...


I like this part.
Because people almost everywhere in the world know that fewer weapons means greater security. (And in places where they don't know it, things seem to go badly wrong nonetheless.)

Millions of victims throughout history disagree you moron.

Of course, the obligatory PC crap. Pandering without addressing the real problem and punishing law abiding unPC citizens.
After the Christchurch attacks, Ardern did a lot of things right. She wore a headscarf when visiting the local Muslim community. She opened the next parliamentary session with the Arabic message of peace, "As-Salaam Alaikum." And she refused to speak the attacker's name. Her message: I am on the side of the Muslim victims. And: Muslims belong to us.
 
MaverickNH said:
There’s a bit of a gap between What’s Banned: AR-15s/30rd Mags and What’s Not: 22lrs/10rd Tubular attached Mags - what do I think the bright line will be anything >22lr, >10rd tubular mags with any “feature” (Pistol grip, muzzle device, etc.).

Every year they *don’t* have a mass killing will prove the ban works. Any mass killing at all proves they have to “crack down” harder on guns.
Click to expand...

Yes, the ban will be proven to work based on the "shark repellent" philosophy.... [rofl]
 
falcon123 said:
After the Christchurch attacks, Ardern did a lot of things right. She wore a headscarf when visiting the local Muslim community. She opened the next parliamentary session with the Arabic message of peace, "As-Salaam Alaikum." And she refused to speak the attacker's name. Her message: I am on the side of the Muslim victims. And: Muslims belong to us.
Click to expand...

Women's instinctive behavior in the face of hostility is to placate and then submit. This strategy conferred a reproductive advantage relative to women who fought, which is why women do it.

Men who attempt to placate and then submit to the mercy of other men are generally not so successful, which is why men's instinctive behavior in the face of hostility is to attempt to establish dominance by force. Someone is going to end up face down in the ditch with their throat cut, better them than you.
 
mibro said:
Women's instinctive behavior in the face of hostility is to placate and then submit. This strategy conferred a reproductive advantage relative to women who fought, which is why women do it.

Men who attempt to placate and then submit to the mercy of other men are generally not so successful, which is why men's instinctive behavior in the face of hostility is to attempt to establish dominance by force. Someone is going to end up face down in the ditch with their throat cut, better them than you.
Click to expand...

It makes people uncomfortable to think of humans as instinctive animals. People don’t think it be like it is, but it do.
 
mibro said:
Women's instinctive behavior in the face of hostility is to placate and then submit. This strategy conferred a reproductive advantage relative to women who fought, which is why women do it.

Men who attempt to placate and then submit to the mercy of other men are generally not so successful, which is why men's instinctive behavior in the face of hostility is to attempt to establish dominance by force. Someone is going to end up face down in the ditch with their throat cut, better them than you.
Click to expand...
Are you implying that, mayhaps, women wouldn't make the best candidates for leadership positions such as Prime Minister? [devil]
 
10thSFFD said:
Why Can’t We Pass Gun Laws Like New Zealand?
The difference in comparing the U.S. and New Zealand rests on some of the countries’ other characteristics. New Zealand does not have the right of gun ownership written into its constitution, which, no matter how you interpret the Second Amendment, certainly is an advantage in broad gun reform. The gun culture of New Zealand is not as steeped in its foundational myths as the gun culture of the U.S. is. Lobbying is not a constitutional right in New Zealand—it’s treated as somewhere between curiosity and a potentially pernicious phenomenon. Political campaign funding has lately become an issue, but it is not the case that donors have great sway over elected officials. There’s no powerful gun lobby to influence elections because even the political party contesting the most seats in the general election spends less than NZ$3 million (a little more than $2 million).

But with all those differences noted, a major factor in American democratic dysfunction is the sheer size of its demographics. It is hard to be a government for the people and by the people when the number of people approaches a third of a billion.
---------------
On the plus side, our enormity and our strength do mean that when we get something right, even a little right, the benefits to us and to the world can be enormous. We’re like a huge conglomerate that might have a profit margin of only 1 percent, but we make up for it in volume. Then again, when we get it wrong, even when we get it a little wrong, even when the question is tough, it reverberates far and wide. Think of the Arab Spring. It was a legitimately tough call to decide which rulers to back, which insurgencies to oppose, whom to topple, whom to grudgingly support in the name of stability, and whom to attempt to weaken in the name of freedom. The U.S. certainly misstepped along the way, all hard-to-avoid errors that have far greater consequence than anything Sweden, Norway, Iceland, or New Zealand ever has the opportunity to accomplish.
------------------------------------------
The New Zealand Constitution | New Zealand Now
We do not have a grand, overarching constitutional document like the Constitution of the USA. But we do have a constitution - it is just made up of different tools of power.

As in many countries with a heritage of British-style government, our constitution is spread across a range of formal documents, decisions and conventions. These include:

  • Acts of Parliament
  • legal documents (‘Letters Patent’)
  • decisions of the Courts
  • generally accepted practices or ‘conventions’.
Put together, these define what the major institutions of government are, what powers they have and how they can use them.

New Zealand is a parliamentary democracy
Many countries these days have a President. That can be a powerful role, as it is in the USA or South Africa, or it can be a more ceremonial role, as it is in Germany or Israel.

Other countries, like the UK and Malaysia, have a King or Queen whose role is also mainly ceremonial.

New Zealand’s constitutional setup is more like that of the UK and similar to what you will find in Australia and Canada.
Click to expand...

I meet a lot of good immigrants who have taken the legal road to US Citizenship and work in industry - they often extol the virtues of the US and our way of government but express some quibbles with our specific Constitutional text or interpretation. I usually give them a US Constitution/Declaration of Independence pocket copy (I bought a case for $1 each way back) and tell them to draw a pencil line through the parts we didin’t need to be the country they wanted to emigrate to rather than Canada, England, etc.

They usually get it quickly. But I add that just because we don’t change the text doesn’t mean we all agree on what is means. As Alexis de Tocqueville said in observation of Americans in his 1835 Democracy in America, every American from all walks of life talks about government and politics as a daily point of conversation rather than restricting such discourse to the elite ruling class. I don’t wear a MAGA hat - I need a AISG hate “America Is Still Great.”
 
10thSFFD said:
Why Can’t We Pass Gun Laws Like New Zealand?
The difference in comparing the U.S. and New Zealand rests on some of the countries’ other characteristics. New Zealand does not have the right of gun ownership written into its constitution, which, no matter how you interpret the Second Amendment, certainly is an advantage in broad gun reform. The gun culture of New Zealand is not as steeped in its foundational myths as the gun culture of the U.S. is. Lobbying is not a constitutional right in New Zealand—it’s treated as somewhere between curiosity and a potentially pernicious phenomenon. Political campaign funding has lately become an issue, but it is not the case that donors have great sway over elected officials. There’s no powerful gun lobby to influence elections because even the political party contesting the most seats in the general election spends less than NZ$3 million (a little more than $2 million).

But with all those differences noted, a major factor in American democratic dysfunction is the sheer size of its demographics. It is hard to be a government for the people and by the people when the number of people approaches a third of a billion.
---------------
On the plus side, our enormity and our strength do mean that when we get something right, even a little right, the benefits to us and to the world can be enormous. We’re like a huge conglomerate that might have a profit margin of only 1 percent, but we make up for it in volume. Then again, when we get it wrong, even when we get it a little wrong, even when the question is tough, it reverberates far and wide. Think of the Arab Spring. It was a legitimately tough call to decide which rulers to back, which insurgencies to oppose, whom to topple, whom to grudgingly support in the name of stability, and whom to attempt to weaken in the name of freedom. The U.S. certainly misstepped along the way, all hard-to-avoid errors that have far greater consequence than anything Sweden, Norway, Iceland, or New Zealand ever has the opportunity to accomplish.
------------------------------------------
The New Zealand Constitution | New Zealand Now
We do not have a grand, overarching constitutional document like the Constitution of the USA. But we do have a constitution - it is just made up of different tools of power.

As in many countries with a heritage of British-style government, our constitution is spread across a range of formal documents, decisions and conventions. These include:

  • Acts of Parliament
  • legal documents (‘Letters Patent’)
  • decisions of the Courts
  • generally accepted practices or ‘conventions’.
Put together, these define what the major institutions of government are, what powers they have and how they can use them.

New Zealand is a parliamentary democracy
Many countries these days have a President. That can be a powerful role, as it is in the USA or South Africa, or it can be a more ceremonial role, as it is in Germany or Israel.

Other countries, like the UK and Malaysia, have a King or Queen whose role is also mainly ceremonial.

New Zealand’s constitutional setup is more like that of the UK and similar to what you will find in Australia and Canada.
Click to expand...

I meet a lot of good immigrants who have taken the legal road to US Citizenship and work in industry - they often extol the virtues of the US and our way of government but express some quibbles with our specific Constitutional text or interpretation. I usually give them a US Constitution/Declaration of Independence pocket copy (I bought a case for $1 each way back) and tell them to draw a pencil line through the parts we didn’t need to be the country they wanted to emigrate to rather than Canada, England, etc.

They usually get it quickly. But I add that just because we don’t change the text doesn’t mean we all agree what it means. As Alexis de Tocqueville said in observation of the Americans in his 1835 Democracy in America, every American from all walks of life speaks of their government and politics rather than such discourse the being the work of an elite ruling class.
 
LINK: Registration Always Leads to Confiscation - A Lesson From New Zealand - The Truth About Guns
...New Zealand doesn’t have direct registration of firearms either. Instead, they have registration of gun owners. Each owner must be permitted to lawfully own a firearm. So the government knows who has what through gun store records and what category of license they posses.

So the government knows that there are 245,000 firearms licenses and of those; 7,500 are E-Category licences and 485 are dealers. From dealer records they know that there are 13,500 firearms which require the owner to have an E Category license. This is effectively the known number of “military-style” semi-automatics (MSSAs) before today’s changes....
Click to expand...

1108.5.jpg
 
MaverickNH said:
I meet a lot of good immigrants who have taken the legal road to US Citizenship and work in industry - they often extol the virtues of the US and our way of government but express some quibbles with our specific Constitutional text or interpretation. I usually give them a US Constitution/Declaration of Independence pocket copy (I bought a case for $1 each way back) and tell them to draw a pencil line through the parts we didin’t need to be the country they wanted to emigrate to rather than Canada, England, etc.

They usually get it quickly. But I add that just because we don’t change the text doesn’t mean we all agree on what is means. As Alexis de Tocqueville said in observation of Americans in his 1835 Democracy in America, every American from all walks of life talks about government and politics as a daily point of conversation rather than restricting such discourse to the elite ruling class. I don’t wear a MAGA hat - I need a AISG hate “America Is Still Great.”
Click to expand...

Thank you for your post!

When I was sitting in various refugee camps in 1980's, filled with tens of thousands of refugees from all around the world, NOBODY was talking about illegal immigration. Everyone was waiting for the process to take place. There were families in camps waiting for 5 years, single guys stinking in the camp for 7 years because they did not say right things during the interview. American Embassy, back then!, was asking basic questions; Were you a member of the communist party? Did you ever build any explosive device? Did you ever participate in any terrorist activity? There were dudes who thought that they will "speed up the process" by saying that they hate communism and they would fight it all over the world. That was considered dangerous and as a result they were not accepted. Once this was revealed to refugees all refugees became sheep and all questions were answered with 'No!". Such reality led to funny situations when mujahadeens from Afghanistan who were fighting Soviets for years were answering "No". Back then people were coming to America because they were fed up with communism. There were some small percentages of economic migrants, like always, but most of the people left everything they had at home and went for America!

They are now American citizens and they will never vote for communism in America.
 
My admittedly limited experience with US citizens of former communist nations is they hate communism, love America but espouse communist thinking. Almost like they're all for communism as long as it's a western government that's running the show.
 
SpaceCritter said:
Are you implying that, mayhaps, women wouldn't make the best candidates for leadership positions such as Prime Minister? [devil]
Click to expand...

Let's make sure we understand the lesson learned here! Madeleine Albright, slave of Hillary, who is now traveling all around the world promoting liberal hate behind our backs decided 20 years ago to bomb 14 targets in Serbia. This non-sense decision costed American taxpayers few billions $ and it led to artificial creation of " an independent" entity called Kosovo. This Kosovo is now controlled by you know who. How did we react to that fact? We have dragged to international courts many Serbs and some Croats and only very few Albanians in order to accuse them from war crimes. We have broken all international treaties and we have broken our own NATO rules. We came to that "bombing decision" in few days. We were never called to any court and nobody here remembers what we have done 20 years ago anymore.

Yet, we are all alarmed when we see one lady taking guns from all men in few days.

Constitution becomes a paper when nobody is defending it. We can say "AISG" but what was so great we have done lately? Anybody?
 
I had an older physics teacher in HS that hated Stalin with a vengence I'd never seen before. Most of her extended family was killed in WWII and by the government right after it ended. A group of us actually traveled to Russia with her in 1999 to see St Petersburgh and Moscow.
 
headednorth said:
My admittedly limited experience with US citizens of former communist nations is they hate communism, love America but espouse communist thinking. Almost like they're all for communism as long as it's a western government that's running the show.
Click to expand...

Wait for Boris! [slap]

You think like this because you did not pay attention. Yes, they are some who would fit the profile you have outlined here, but the great majority can teach you about communism if you will only STFU, put down your phone and pay attention.

Since you represent a different opinion, please, give me few examples which would support your statement. Maybe we will correct your opinion together. [cheers]
 
xtry51 said:
I had an older physics teacher in HS that hated Stalin with a vengence I'd never seen before. Most of her extended family was killed in WWII and by the government right after it ended. A group of us actually traveled to Russia with her in 1999 to see St Petersburgh and Moscow.
Click to expand...

Communism has nothing to do with the country, as you can clearly see now. Communism is a religion. Once it is accepted, countries and people in them die.
Communism did not die, it only metastasized in America and Europe after it tricked us. Communism is actually growing and the country we owe $, China, is a communist country with "human face". This human face is what Bernie and his bunch of idiots call Green New Deal. Green New Deal is nothing else but death to our lifestyle and out believes. Bernie and AOC will be all eaten by their own communist believers just like Stalin was.....
 
Last edited:
U.N. rights forum condemns Israel over deadly Gaza protests | Reuters

The vote was 23 states in favor, 8 against, with 15 abstentions and one delegation absent.

vote.jpg

Voting against the move were Australia, Austria, Brazil, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Fiji, Hungary, and Ukraine. Sixteen countries abstained, including India, Iceland, Italy, Denmark, and the United Kingdom.

human.jpg

 
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