Witnesses say many dead, injured in shooting at New Zealand mosque

This. Only difference between him and a good percentage of the population is the fact that he put his beliefs out there and then acted on them.

I can’t like this post because it would seem supportive of needless violence.... but that said.. your not wrong... and without a doubt this guy acted on his beliefs..... I just don’t understand stand how that helps his theory about the 2nd amendment and deviding America .... other than “hey I’m a nut job, and there must be enough nut jobs in the US to spark a civil war”

We have plenty of nut jobs that aren’t keyboard comandos, but I don’t think it’s as bad as his brand of crazy..... sure we’ll have mass shootings and lone wolf nut jobs.... if Obama and trump prove anything it’ll take a lot to get this party started.
 
Is that supposed to prove anything? He thinks muslims having children is a threat to the environment, and you take that as some form of lefty platform? The guy is literally obsessed with preserving a white homeland for white people, which, to his mind, includes preserving a nice natural environment for white people to enjoy.

How anyone would classify that as anything but far-right is a mystery.
Classify it as the 800 lb gorilla in the room that people dismiss as the ravings of a rascist lunatic. The hard politically incorrect alternative way of thinking that someday may come to fruition.
 
I can’t like this post because it would seem supportive of needless violence.... but that said.. your not wrong... and without a doubt this guy acted on his beliefs..... I just don’t understand stand how that helps his theory about the 2nd amendment and deviding America .... other than “hey I’m a nut job, and there must be enough nut jobs in the US to spark a civil war”

We have plenty of nut jobs that aren’t keyboard comandos, but I don’t think it’s as bad as his brand of crazy..... sure we’ll have mass shootings and lone wolf nut jobs.... if Obama and trump prove anything it’ll take a lot to get this party started.
The way I read it was he was hoping that his actions would lead to some over the top gun laws being passed in the US which would lead to some sort of resistance which would lead to a civil war in the US along racial lines. Tbh, my way of thinking is he's an Aussie in NZ so he can do whatever he wants, but he should mind his own business as far as the US is concerned.

I think he over estimated the effect that something happening on the other side of the world would have on American politics. Sure there will be some opportunistic bs by leftist politicians, but I dont think any laws will be passed here because of this.

From time to time, someone with strong beliefs and the will to act attempts to be the spark that kicks off the firestorm. So far, theyve over estimated their compatriots will to follow in their footsteps. Cable's still on, people have mortgages and full bellies, etc.
 
so what do people expect about the "go time"? How many times this term has been used on NES? What people expect when "go time" comes? You got guns, not water soakers, they kill. If it's really "go time" someone is going to die, you may need to pull the trigger.

You are not going to see anything different than what you saw in that video clip. Just because people are bad or because they wear uniform, it doesn't mean that they won't bleed or die in some cartoonish way. When people say "stack like firewood" ... this is what that stacking looks like (otherwise you are the one being stacked) Is that suddenly disturbing to people?

I get it that's it's f***ed up, it's not normal, but this is what violence looks like. Outside of sleepy burbs this shit goes on pretty much everywhere on the planet. There should not be surprise.

Target selection is the differentiator between madman and freedom fighter. As far as I can tell this guy walked into a couple of mosques and killed everyone in sight - presumably women and children included. I get that there's probably no Muslim army in AU/NZ for him to go after, and it does sound like he was more concerned with inciting outrage and pushing things over the edge than he was with solving a problem directly, but if he had a problem with unchecked immigration into his country maybe he would have gone after those responsible for allowing it to happen. Treat the disease, not the symptoms. But again, he was apparently looking to light a fuse, not kill a problem.
 
Target selection is the differentiator between madman and freedom fighter. As far as I can tell this guy walked into a couple of mosques and killed everyone in sight - presumably women and children included. I get that there's probably no Muslim army in AU/NZ for him to go after, and it does sound like he was more concerned with inciting outrage and pushing things over the edge than he was with solving a problem directly, but if he had a problem with unchecked immigration into his country maybe he would have gone after those responsible for allowing it to happen. Treat the disease, not the symptoms. But again, he was apparently looking to light a fuse, not kill a problem.

lol. Rape of Berlin. This is to the point of target selection. I'm sure that 10THSFD can chime in on freedom fighting from first hand experience. Mine is second hand.
 
lol. Rape of Berlin. This is to the point of target selection. I'm sure that 10THSFD can chime in on freedom fighting from first hand experience. Mine is second hand.

Sure, but late/post-WWII Berlin under Soviet occupation isn't quite 2019 anywhere. The point's taken though, and 10th's insights are always educational.
 
Target selection is the differentiator between madman and freedom fighter. As far as I can tell this guy walked into a couple of mosques and killed everyone in sight - presumably women and children included. I get that there's probably no Muslim army in AU/NZ for him to go after, and it does sound like he was more concerned with inciting outrage and pushing things over the edge than he was with solving a problem directly, but if he had a problem with unchecked immigration into his country maybe he would have gone after those responsible for allowing it to happen. Treat the disease, not the symptoms. But again, he was apparently looking to light a fuse, not kill a problem.

Yeah... this guy is just using politics as a veil for being a homicidal douche who wants his 15 minutes like all these other scumbags. Maybe he has loosely held beliefs as he professes, but his choice of target and actions were more in line with what we see in all the other mass shootings.

If he actually believed the shit he spewed I don't see how he would have done something like this which will only further galvanize support for the people he hates.
 
Target selection is the differentiator between madman and freedom fighter. As far as I can tell this guy walked into a couple of mosques and killed everyone in sight - presumably women and children included. I get that there's probably no Muslim army in AU/NZ for him to go after, and it does sound like he was more concerned with inciting outrage and pushing things over the edge than he was with solving a problem directly, but if he had a problem with unchecked immigration into his country maybe he would have gone after those responsible for allowing it to happen. Treat the disease, not the symptoms. But again, he was apparently looking to light a fuse, not kill a problem.
Fwiw, one of the points he made was if people are coming to your country with the expressed purpose of replacing you and your culture, whats the difference if they arent armed or wearing a uniform? Given a long enough span of time, the result is the same.
 
Fwiw, one of the points he made was if people are coming to your country with the expressed purpose of replacing you and your culture, whats the difference if they arent armed or wearing a uniform? Given a long enough span of time, the result is the same.

The difference is the instant reaction from the rest of society. He may not have appreciated that, or he may have understood it perfectly well and chose his targets for that purpose.
 
Sure, but post-WWII Berlin under Soviet occupation isn't quite 2019 anywhere. The point's taken though, and 10th's insights are always educational.

I don't think that times have changed at all from the beginning of times. Again, second hand information, but Chechen war wasn't much different, Donbass wasn't much different. I don't know of any "clean" wars without a**h***s and sadistic maniacs who take advantage of the situation.
 
"Beyond his white nationalistic views, he claimed to be an environmentalist and said he is a fascist who believes China is the nation that most aligns with his political and social values."

When you see these things together you know the dude was quite wrong in the head, somewhat hysterical type, possibly.

Well, no: that was the part he got 100% correct.

His stated political positions are entirely internally consistent and coherent with the modern: the thing that was wrong was that all of these ideologies - fascism, liberalism, racism, eco-centrism, libertarianism, the 'third way', even most practical forms that people think is 'conservativism' (for instance, utilitarianism) - all share the same fundamental set of errors of philosophy that makes the left-right split ultimately meaningless to talk about. Admittedly, the groups aren't aligned on the periphery (so they can distinguish themselves amongst themselves), but in the central, functional themes, they are, as nihilism and the dialectic of power is the logical conclusion of the soi-disant Enlightenment. He has more in common with the invaders he despises than he could possibly come to see.

There is an alternative.
 
The difference is the instant reaction from the rest of society. He may not have appreciated that, or he may have understood it perfectly well and chose his targets for that purpose.

If you read his manifesto it’s rather clear. Not only was the reaction expected, but intended, and he stated as much.
 
Oh, the modern Christian's are good? Well then I guess that absolves them of the centuries of horrific acts they've committed!

Thank you for making my point!

All religious motives! Keep the evidence coming. Religion is crazy.

To lump Christianity in with Islam is ridiculous on its face. With all due respect, you obviously know very, very little about Christianity.

I can tell this simply by your statement "Oh, the modern Christians are good?" All true Christians understand that NO HUMAN BEING IS GOOD. ALL human beings, whether they've received Jesus Christ or not may occasionally do good things but all of them, ALL of them are sinners by nature and as such NONE of them can escape hell without true faith that Jesus died for ALL of our sins. So your argument that simply "being good" does not absolve Christians of wrongdoing misses the point entirely. It's not about "being good", it's about receiving Jesus Christ as your savior and attempting to live a moral life according to God's word as much as possible, all the while understanding that you cannot ever actually be completely free from sin. Only Jesus was able to do that.

Islam is completely different. There is no savior in Islam. The Quran compels Muslims to either convert, enslave or kill all non-Muslims. Pursuit of this goal by all individual Muslims is the only way to salvation. By contrast, there is no mandate that Christians forcibly convert non-Christians in the Bible. Where that happens or has happened in the past it is and has been, misguided.

You don't have to agree with me, but to have an honest debate you have to understand the fundamental differences between Islam and Christianity. MORE importantly, you need to understand that Christians have only committed horrific acts only when:

A) They were only POSING as Christians, but in their hearts were actually pagans;

or

B) Were ignoring the word and will of God.
 
It was an absolutely sadistic action and appalling to say the least. I watched it and shuddered. As a Christian who believes in peace and non-violence I ache for those deaths. I also would have defended their right to live as of any other whether they hated me or not.

One thing that this type of social media aimed content will do is desensitize the masses who view it and engage with it. The love of the many grows cold. How do the the masses that have experienced such bloodshed also react in past times?

Will this event galvanize? Certainly many of us will squirrel away some hot goods and increase our self defense techniques not with offensive measures as much as preservative ones.

I think this event will fan into the flames further the purposes to control society even more, as well as consolidate power.

I doubt race divides will play into his aims as most here want a peaceful life, will protect life, and property above all. Full bellies and all. And pie day.

If the gun laws were not so strict there wouldn’t there be at least one person in that neighborhood who was armed, take up a tactical position, and put one in his center mass? (Provided it was a green tip) I most certainly would have to protect any innocent. The second mosque defense was testament to this. How did he get his arms over to NZ anyways? By boat?
 
To lump Christianity in with Islam is ridiculous on its face. With all due respect, you obviously know very, very little about Christianity.

I can tell this simply by your statement "Oh, the modern Christians are good?" All true Christians understand that NO HUMAN BEING IS GOOD. ALL human beings, whether they've received Jesus Christ or not may occasionally do good things but all of them, ALL of them are sinners by nature and as such NONE of them can escape hell without true faith that Jesus died for ALL of our sins. So your argument that simply "being good" does not absolve Christians of wrongdoing misses the point entirely. It's not about "being good", it's about receiving Jesus Christ as your savior and attempting to live a moral life according to God's word as much as possible, all the while understanding that you cannot ever actually be completely free from sin. Only Jesus was able to do that.

Islam is completely different. There is no savior in Islam. The Quran compels Muslims to either convert, enslave or kill all non-Muslims. Pursuit of this goal by all individual Muslims is the only way to salvation. By contrast, there is no mandate that Christians forcibly convert non-Christians in the Bible. Where that happens or has happened in the past it is and has been, misguided.

You don't have to agree with me, but to have an honest debate you have to understand the fundamental differences between Islam and Christianity. MORE importantly, you need to understand that Christians have only committed horrific acts only when:

A) They were only POSING as Christians, but in their hearts were actually pagans;

or

B) Were ignoring the word and will of God.



Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaaa.

Very condescending of you to state I dont know differences between xtian and Islam. I have come to expect that from the pious.

And that part about Christians have acted heinously because blah blah blah?....that was actually quite funny.

Christians gonna Christian I guess. I dont have any problem with you believing what ever you believe, but your post belies your lack of perspective and your condescension is very typical of true believers. But you miss my original point, which is: religion is major cause of this shooting and many acts of terror and war throughout history. Yup, Christians too (historic or modern, doesnt matter).

If you are a true Christian, show me (and the group) mercy, and dont reply to this. If I want to be condescended to, I can wait until work on Monday.
 
I'm convinced religious debate is worthwhile but equally convinced this 2A forum isn't the place. It's distracting from the intent and frankly not constructive. Any discussion that devolves into trading mockery and defense isn't worth my time, because it's no longer a discussion. Please don't cause a developing topic to get locked with this sidetracking.
 
I'm sure one more law will definitely stop a guy willing to mold years of his life around systematically killing people. What an idiot.

They're lucky he didn't actually use TAPT in large quantity with flour or saw dust like he proposed in his manifesto. He could have blown up several mosques completely before the cops even had a clue.

I'm interested to see what goes on with the other two people in custody. They had arrested 4 total, but one was a citizen attempting to intervene before police arrived. They're mum on the other two.
 
So, Jacinda is New Zealand's equivalent of our Maura? Just great! She will use this tragedy to ram it up the butts of every law-abiding gun owner in her country. Jacinda, Maura....doesn't really matter. These stinking pieces of dog s**t all think alike, regardless of nationality.
Yup. Progs. Our national chapter are the Donks.
 
This Frasier Anning guy is something else:

his Twittor feed: Senator Fraser Anning (@fraser_anning) | Twitter

Guns are already in the hands of the Government and criminals so it is time to let law abiding citizens do the same. Remember, no Police can protect you within minutes from a home invasion, carjacking or an attempt on your life.

Ending all third world immigration Interest free government bank Absolute freedom of speech Banning foreign ownership of our land Firearms for self defence Traditional family values Exit the UN and end foreign aid Dams and infrastructure projects

can we import this guy?
 
New Zealand shows America's mass shootings have global consequences

“It's the viral nature of school shootings, the ubiquity of technology and the spread of ideology ... that have made mass shootings a global problem," said Colin Clarke, an adjunct political scientist at the RAND Corporation and professor at the Soufan Center, which does research on human security.”
 
New Zealand shows America's mass shootings have global consequences

“It's the viral nature of school shootings, the ubiquity of technology and the spread of ideology ... that have made mass shootings a global problem," said Colin Clarke, an adjunct political scientist at the RAND Corporation and professor at the Soufan Center, which does research on human security.”

Because no other nation on earth had experienced a mass shooting until we imported this one to NZ yesterday. /s

Individuals are responsible for crimes, for setting these examples, for following these examples. If anyone deserves blame it's the media for glamorizing them. Hey insecure bullied kid, want to get even and then get on the cover of TIME?

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