Winchester Service Grade M1 - First Shots

[Mountain]

So here's the Winchester I picked up at the CMP New England Games:

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Fired a couple enblocs of HXP to get on paper and sight in. Was actually pretty easy to get in the black after a couple shots at the 50 yd berm then only one shot at 100 before staying in the black.

[/IMG]

Shots at 12:00 and 1:00 high plus the shot closest to center orange dot were single load 155 SMK's, 46.5 gr Varget. All else were HXP in original HXP enblocs. Either the enblocs are crap or I have another clip latch problem. About halfway through the clip the Garand started barfing up unfired rounds.

So not terrible groups but I'm getting a couple low flyers even from single loading. So far all I have done is tighten up the loose front sight, peen the gas cylinder splines, and peen the rear sight track so that the aperture stopped wobbling. Guess I'll strip it back down and try to figure out what's causing the low flyers.

Any thoughts on low flyers? Op rod piston to gas cylinder fit? Haven't measured them yet. Any other usual suspects?

 

[majspud]

ME/TE? Going to clean the stock?

t

 

[mac1911]

So here's the Winchester I picked up at the CMP New England Games:

[/IMG]

Fired a couple enblocs of HXP to get on paper and sight in. Was actually pretty easy to get in the black after a couple shots at the 50 yd berm then only one shot at 100 before staying in the black.

[/IMG]

Shots at 12:00 and 1:00 high plus the shot closest to center orange dot were single load 155 SMK's, 46.5 gr Varget. All else were HXP in original HXP enblocs. Either the enblocs are crap or I have another clip latch problem. About halfway through the clip the Garand started barfing up unfired rounds.

So not terrible groups but I'm getting a couple low flyers even from single loading. So far all I have done is tighten up the loose front sight, peen the gas cylinder splines, and peen the rear sight track so that the aperture stopped wobbling. Guess I'll strip it back down and try to figure out what's causing the low flyers.

Any thoughts on low flyers? Op rod piston to gas cylinder fit? Haven't measured them yet. Any other usual suspects?

Just some random stuff
How's the lower band fit and pin ?
Did you snug up all 3 splines?
Always how is stock fit and lock up? Hand guard fit?
HXP has always had a flyer to ruin groups for me vs reloads or something like Fed GMM.
How's the trigger?
I know you "tightened" the rear sight spring but is the aperture dropping a click or 3 during recoil.
Looks like your rifle passes the Arsenal test so it's doing well in that regard.
Take a good look at the crown and how's the MW gauge?

Wondering or drifting shot placement has to be the PITA with most garands and I think stock fit is to blame for most of it.
Take your action and place it in the stock with out the trigger group. Can you move the action around in the stock. If so it moves under recoil settling in a random spot each time.

 

[Mountain]

ME/TE? Going to clean the stock?

t

ME 1, TE 2+

I'll eventually clean up the stock. Looks like it might be pretty nice wood under all the crud and dings. I think the stock appearance-wise is more like a field grade, but there are no cracks or serious flaws and no issues with dimensions.

This was rebuilt 2/65 at Springfield Armory, and has the date etched on a receiver leg. Re-park finish is that very subtle green-ish tint with the black lead-dipped heel.

Just some random stuff
How's the lower band fit and pin ?
Did you snug up all 3 splines?
Always how is stock fit and lock up? Hand guard fit?
HXP has always had a flyer to ruin groups for me vs reloads or something like Fed GMM.
How's the trigger?
I know you "tightened" the rear sight spring but is the aperture dropping a click or 3 during recoil.
Looks like your rifle passes the Arsenal test so it's doing well in that regard.
Take a good look at the crown and how's the MW gauge?

Wondering or drifting shot placement has to be the PITA with most garands and I think stock fit is to blame for most of it.
Take your action and place it in the stock with out the trigger group. Can you move the action around in the stock. If so it moves under recoil settling in a random spot each time.

Lower band fit was solid.
Yep, all 3 splines snugged up as equally as I could manage. GC fit like it was going on a new barrel after peening.
Stock lock up could be better. Not loose, as the trigger guard stops ~3/8" out. It is easy to close by hand, however.
My reloads were dropping a low flyer as well.
Trigger pull is a little heavy but has a smooth and predictable break. I'll work on the trigger and get it down to slightly below 5 lbs.
The aperture would need to be dropping on its own then popping back up. I'm not making adjustments after the low flyers and next shots back up high.
Crown looks great. MW is a 1.

I'll pop it open tomorrow and see if anything is slapping around inside and also check to see if the action can move around in the stock. Might use some temporary shims to help tighten up the lock up.

One last thing- the rear aperture seems huge compared to my other rifles. I'll probably reduce it with the ol' JB Weld & a fine drill bit.

Thanks!

 

[dw617]

Could just be the stock and action settling back in

 

[Mountain]

Could just be the stock and action settling back in

Could be. It's really not that bad and some of the spread is going to be me: bad light ~5pm and me being in a little bit of a rush to meet with my wife. You can see by the pasters that the first few shots were spread a little more. I also shot a SR-1 with HXP and was able to hold the black with that.

Front hand guard fit is pretty good. Not rock solid like the job Franco did on my Special but minimal play. Everything else seems OK but I need to look for any hits / rubbing on the interior of the stock.

I'll give the bore a thorough cleaning and polishing with bore paste. On some of my milsurps that alone has cut group sizes in half.

DW, you better buy it before I clean up the stock and see how nice the wood is.

 

[Mountain]

Update-

Nothing dragging on op rod- tilts easy even when greased up. Bolt (I assume) drags a little on the hammer when trigger group installed, but that's normal. Action is snug in the stock- there's no slop without it locked down. Installed a new Orion7 spring, so it's not an old weak spring causing the low flyers.

So next step to give the barrel a good cleaning & finally a light polish with bore paste. And yeah- might just be settling in.

 

[mac1911]

Update-

Nothing dragging on op rod- tilts easy even when greased up. Bolt (I assume) drags a little on the hammer when trigger group installed, but that's normal. Action is snug in the stock- there's no slop without it locked down. Installed a new Orion7 spring, so it's not an old weak spring causing the low flyers.

So next step to give the barrel a good cleaning & finally a light polish with bore paste. And yeah- might just be settling in.

Remember even the armory would fire 3 warm up shots before the 5 consecutive shots for testing.
Settling, 1st round flyer or what have you.
Maybe shoot your next test with 3 targets and shoot 5 rounds on each round robin style after the 3 shot warm up?

 

[Mountain]

Yeah, the pasters on the above target were from cold, then the group as shown.

I had run a snake through the bore before shooting it but gave it a thorough cleaning last night. Lots of nasty crud but it came out quickly. Not that many passes to get a mirror bore. At least mirror without a decent bore scope, LOL.

Maybe that will do it. It would be pretty good without those low flyers.

 

[mac1911]

Yeah, the pasters on the above target were from cold, then the group as shown.

I had run a snake through the bore before shooting it but gave it a thorough cleaning last night. Lots of nasty crud but it came out quickly. Not that many passes to get a mirror bore. At least mirror without a decent bore scope, LOL.

Maybe that will do it. It would be pretty good without those low flyers.

do npt bore scope a rifle you like

 

[76Too]

i'm interested...did they charge you state sales tax...if so, which state?

i think we have sisters...my Winchester Service Grade is a '65 Anniston Rebuild as well...I can't remember the month though. I got ALL springfield guts on mine.

 

[Mountain]

do npt bore scope a rifle you like

Or might sell.

Actually it looks really good after a little spit and polish- good enough that I can't see why the throat would be a 2. Muzzle a 1 but looks better. Really nice looking bore.

i'm interested...did they charge you state sales tax...if so, which state?

i think we have sisters...my Winchester Service Grade is a '65 Anniston Rebuild as well...I can't remember the month though. I got ALL springfield guts on mine.

No tax. I guess it would have been Vermont. I hear that the CMP store charges state and local sales tax in Alabama. Anniston has a total sales tax of 10%! Where I'm from in Tennessee is 9.25%.

My milled trigger guard is a Win and I think something else in the trigger assembly is Win. Otherwise all the guts are SA.

 

[76Too]

yeah, you did better than me...the Win13 got an extra 10% whacked onto it. i was actually surprised that they sold it to me due to the fact that I already took delivery of a WRA service grade (my anniston rebuild) about a month prior to visiting the store. Win13 was a total mixmaster...i actually don't think they could have mixed up the parts any more than they did! i've been slow but sure making it correct-ish as i buy small parts for it. starting inside and working my way out to the more expensive parts.

your stock looks like hammered shit! i like it! need to find a nice beat to hell hand guard to match it!

 

[Mountain]

I'm picking up a challenge here. Make that stock purty. Either that or drag the hand guard behind the truck for a couple days.

Betcha it'll buff right out...

 

[76Too]

Any cartouches on that war dog?

 

[Mountain]

Any cartouches on that war dog?

[/IMG]

Also has the typical circle-P.

You can really see the 'hurry up there's a war' machining and the lead dip effect on the heel. Dimensions are good on this stock and I don't see any cracks nor repairs, but appearance-wise it's a Field or maybe Rack grade. If my kids were young, I'd tell them Davey Crockett ran out of bullets and used the stock to fight off a dozen bears.

 

[dw617]

.

 

[Mountain]

What says the group: Dishwasher to clean crud and raise the dings / gouges? Yea or nay?

I can do it on a weekend when Mrs. Mountain is sleeping in. She never has to know...

Other option is a couple scrubs with Simple Green full strength. May have to spend more time steaming dings, however.

 

[majspud]

Gently hand wipe with Dawn DWL in the bath tub, with water as hot as you can stand it. Worked great for me over the years. I've also used a ScotchBrite sponge pad, also gently.

t

 

[Mountain]

Thanks T.

How do you handle the dings? This one has a plethora of dings.

 

[majspud]

I've let most dings be, but have had success with an iron and wet wash cloth.

t

 

[Mountain]

I've let most dings be, but have had success with an iron and wet wash cloth.

t

Thanks! Much appreciated because it should be much easier to stay away from a cartouche than via the steam method.

 

[majspud]

I should say, "success with smaller dents and dings," not big time stuff.

t

 

[76Too]

I never heard of the dishwasher method, but that seems like a pretty sound way to get it clean alright! That's a big IF you don't get caught!

 

[76Too]

And I've seen the iron/wash cloth method in action. It works! That being said, I hope you'd be planning on refinishing afterward because it'll leave iron shaped marks on the surface. I bet Franco would have a field day with you on that one!

 

[majspud]

It will really bleach out the stock. Did it with a Mauser stock once.

t

- - - Updated - - -

And I've seen the iron/wash cloth method in action. It works! That being said, I hope you'd be planning on refinishing afterward because it'll leave iron shaped marks on the surface. I bet Franco would have a field day with you on that one!

That's what the wet wash cloth is for. Instant wet heat, not a dry/burning heat.

t

 

[Mountain]

And I've seen the iron/wash cloth method in action. It works! That being said, I hope you'd be planning on refinishing afterward because it'll leave iron shaped marks on the surface. I bet Franco would have a field day with you on that one!

I bet if I keep the iron moving and the washcloth wet that there won't be too many marks. I'll bring a rifle from the mens' department for the November MM match, so I'll have to catch hell for something other than the poo-say gun.

If the dings steam out decently, rather than sanding I'll often go to steel wool. It smooths the finish, blends scratches, yet keeps a nice open grained finish. Sandpaper will flatten things out- might need a little of that, but once it's gone you can't put it back on.

 

[dw617]

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[mac1911]

One thing to consider is if you dish washer it it will remove most of the gunk and patina. It will also saturate the stock and the wood could crack as it dries.
Steam works well for dings, helps some for dents but if the wood fibers are "cut" it won't do much.
The problem with cleaning the wood completely is any deeper dents and dings will stand out more.
I like warm soapy water to start. Cheese cloth works well as do the super fine 3m pads (think they are gray) a soft brush helps get in the dings and dents. More extreme would be simple green or purple power with warm water.
You can heat your stock up a bit with a hair dryer or heat gun.

The dishwasher......she will know.

 

[Mountain]

I have some 'points' in the bank for leaving Vermont early to help out while she recovered from some minor oral surgery and a bad sinus/tooth/ear infection. I think I won't use up all those points over a stock in the dishwasher and any nasty residue. She's pretty supportive of all the matches, builds, and/or restorations I do.