Win M1 Donor for Match Rifle? Sacrilege?

[Mountain]

Ok, thinking about having our favorite armorer accurize one more M1 match gun for me. Thinking about the Winchester as a donor. It's a '65 Springfield Armory rebuild with the classic lead-dipped heel and date etched on the receiver lug. Barrel has ME = 1, TE = 2. Stock looks kinda cool since cleaning it up.

Can't decide if I should keep as is or rebarrel and restock for a JCG match project. Worth something to keep it together with its SA rebuild barrel as a typical example of the '65 SA rebuilds? The usual CMP mixmaster otherwise. Not that big of a deal and proceed with accurizing? Will get a Krieger barrel and a new awesome looking tiger stripe walnut stock I have been sitting on if it becomes a donor.

Other option is to pick up another CMP rifle, though I'd rather not spend the money on another donor. As usual, disclaimer that I may be dumb enough to ignore good advice...

 

[mac1911]

you can always put the old parts back on and restore it back to 65 rebuild status.

I thought about buying a cmp special and putting a better barrel on it then use the take off on one of my other rifles.?

 

[Mountain]

you can always put the old parts back on and restore it back to 65 rebuild status.

I thought about buying a cmp special and putting a better barrel on it then use the take off on one of my other rifles.?

True...

Also could pick up a Winchester part here and there to make it more correct for those who are into that. Gracias.

 

[Soxfan9]

I’d say keep it as is. The 60s SA rebuilds are nice. You could always trade that for a regular mixmaster and keep that together. That stock looks great!

 

[enbloc]

Other option is to pick up another CMP rifle,

1 Vote for another CMP rifle, because you won't be able to get any more eventually...

 

[Mountain]

I’d say keep it as is. The 60s SA rebuilds are nice. You could always trade that for a regular mixmaster and keep that together. That stock looks great!

Thanks- here's a before pic:

Was pretty ugly as purchased. Lots of elbow grease and steaming to get it decent looking.

 

[76Too]

I got an Anniston Winchester rebuild last year, but she's staying 'as is' and will be my CMP Garand match back up rifle. The muzzle reads around .5 and all the parts are 'like new' SA...I don't even know how much it's been shot since the rebuild.

I vote leave it as is...the rebuilds were an era for the Garand and might be worth keeping in the condition received (but cleaned up like you already did).

I highly advise against buying Winchester parts to make it right...lol. I'm going to go friggen broke trying to piece this damn Win13 back together, but I'm buying parts only when they come up for good prices. Yes, I already bought the straight cut op rod...yes, I could have bought an entire rifle with what I paid for it...but at the end of it all, I'll have a correct version of somewhat rare variant of Garand with a really neat repeating serial number (1,628,628 I think) that I hand picked at the CMP south store last year.

 

[Soxfan9]

Love opening a box from CMP and seeing GI wood like that. I recently received a service grade IHC with CMP wood. It’s nice, and locks up great, just not the same. Great work on that one!

 

[dw617]

I will echo what the others have said about keeping the 60's rebuild together.

Lastly, a 60's rebuild is correct as a 60's rebuild..... That etch mark will always be there. It would be "less correct" to attempt to "correct" it into an as it left the factory Winchester.

 

[Mountain]

I will echo what the others have said about keeping the 60's rebuild together.

Lastly, a 60's rebuild is correct as a 60's rebuild..... That etch mark will always be there. It would be "less correct" to attempt to "correct" it into an as it left the factory Winchester.

Gotcha.
May just go the route of a HRA Field Grade. With some luck, I won't have to replace much other than the barrel and stock, which I already have.

 

[enbloc]

Lol. I like the "Before" photo better...

 

[mac1911]

Thanks- here's a before pic:

Was pretty ugly as purchased. Lots of elbow grease and steaming to get it decent looking.

that looks like a match rifle that went up at RIA last auction. I forget the important part about it?

 

[Mountain]

Even though I really don't understand what drives the collector value for M1's, guess I should at least recognize it's there. Rare doesn't always indicate valuable, but in the case of M1's that seems to hold true.

 

[mac1911]

Even though I really don't understand what drives the collector value for M1's, guess I should at least recognize it's there. Rare doesn't always indicate valuable, but in the case of M1's that seems to hold true.

People with to much extra money

 

[Mountain]

People with to much extra money

Well, I know where to find them- bidding on CMP auctions! Postage stamp IHC only a few dollars away from $4K, and 2 and a half days of that madness to go. $2K for a HRA M1, with almost 10 days left for the auction. There's a 1903 MK I that seems reasonable, but it's only getting started.

 

[Mountain]

OK, the general consensus was that pulling the Winchester apart would indeed be sacrilege. I put a close to this today- dropped off my CMP order at the post office. Field Grade, and applied a 'sticky' for HRA first choice, high # SA second choice per our favorite armorer's instructions. I think most people ask for WWII era receivers, so hopefully I'll get what I want as a donor rifle. Nice piece of advice was to have Krieger cut the chamber, so that if anything is off too much to fix, it's their dime.

I had some $ saved up for a precision bolt rifle but changed plans and figured I'd want another match M1 eventually anyway. I just decided to put a better barrel and brake on my AR-10 and stick with that for long range stuff.

 

[mac1911]

What do you mean by cut the chamber? It will still need to be finished reamed once assembled?

 

[Mountain]

What do you mean by cut the chamber? It will still need to be finished reamed once assembled?

I'm assuming yes, might still need to be finish reamed. Not exactly sure how Krieger typically supplies the barrel. Regardless, Franco is ordering it the way he wants it and can take care of whatever finishing is necessary. Leaving that to experienced eyes and hands. I cheated a bit and sourced barreled receivers for my Bula and 'unlimited' builds and checked with go, no go, and/or field gauges.

Side note- Jeff at Bula cut the M14 chambers more generously than Franco cares for. Jeff's chamber dimensions per him would be tight enough to promote accuracy with .308 rounds yet not so tight that 7.62 would be unreliable. Seems to work- it's way more accurate than I am.

 

[mac1911]

I'm assuming yes, might still need to be finish reamed. Not exactly sure how Krieger typically supplies the barrel. Regardless, Franco is ordering it the way he wants it and can take care of whatever finishing is necessary. Leaving that to experienced eyes and hands. I cheated a bit and sourced barreled receivers for my Bula and 'unlimited' builds and checked with go, no go, and/or field gauges.

Side note- Jeff at Bula cut the M14 chambers more generously than Franco cares for. Jeff's chamber dimensions per him would be tight enough to promote accuracy with .308 rounds yet not so tight that 7.62 would be unreliable. Seems to work- it's way more accurate than I am.

When I looked into krieger for the 06 build they leave the shoulder a little heavy to leave room for timing and then finish ream.
Franco cut my 308 M1 pretty tight pretty sure it's right at SAMMI min.
Unless your getting into throat and lead custom sizes.
looking forward to the project

 

[Mountain]

So now the CMP waiting game. Paperwork received at CMP this Tuesday, no confirmation email yet...

edit 6/5 - CMP sent me the email confirmation today. Based on what I see on CMP forums, they are shipping fairly quickly.

edit 6/6 - E-Store shows invoice and tracking number. Label created & supposed to ship today. Should be in my hands Friday or Monday at the latest, which is good because I go overseas after that.

The Winchester is officially safe from being molested.

 

[Mountain]

Here's the organ donor that saved the Winchester's life, LOL. SA 6.32M Field Grade:

That hackberry stock looks much better in the pic than in person. Really not bad wood, but it's light in color under the very light spray job staining. Grain pores show as almost white. Ugly now, but won't be bad with a proper stain. Seems to fit OK- receiver is locked in pretty well.

Lower band is junk- barely stays on the barrel with the pin pushed in as far as it will fit. Not sure if that's fair game to complain to CMP for replacement. GC was very loose but might work with the right lock. Finish on the GC almost completely gone. Op rod seems OK with piston at .525 - .526. Barrel will be replaced then sold as will the stock. A little extra bonus was the IHC trigger, which should sell for a decent price. Assuming the bolt is OK, should be a decent deal for what I need especially after selling the extras.

Thinking about slapping it back together and seeing how it shoots before it becomes a match rifle. Op rod spring the most worn I have ever seen, so I'll swap in a new Orion7 but otherwise shoot as it came from CMP excepting tightening up a bit. Head to head w/ HXP vs. the Winchester and my match Special?

Awesome service from the CMP. Order was processed and shipped very quickly. Left Alabama at 1pm yesterday and I came home for lunch today to be here for the Fedex delivery. All should be in Franco's hands this Sunday.

 

[mac1911]

 

[Mountain]

Did a little head to head with some so-so ammo, HXP-77. Here's how Organ Donor did vs. Winchester '65 Rebuild:

Mac1911 told me the Field Grade would hold the 9-ring and sure enough it did. Shot at ~4 o'clock was first shot, all others after a couple clicks to the left. Did pretty good compared to the Winchester- 97-2x Field Grade SA vs. 98-3x Service Grade Winchester. This with a sloppy gas cylinder and a lower band that flops around so much that it barely stays in place. The hackberry stock seems to have very good dimensions and holds the package together well without rubbing the op rod etc. The Winchester has had a few as-issued mods and corrections including a trigger job for ~4.7 lbs pull. The Field Grade SA has a trigger pull about 6.8 lbs but it feels like more.

Barrel was a 2-muzzle wear, 3- throat, with a bore that looks very good. Seems to shoot just fine- actually quite well for what it is. Guess I should be nice to it and give it a make-over rather than considering it an organ donor, LOL.

edit-

That shot at 12:00 high for the Winchester was a total HXP flyer. Was not at all expecting that shot to hit high. Next shot was grouped with others.

 

[dw617]

Nice !!!

 

[mac1911]

Did a little head to head with some so-so ammo, HXP-77. Here's how Organ Donor did vs. Winchester '65 Rebuild:

Mac1911 told me the Field Grade would hold the 9-ring and sure enough it did. Shot at ~4 o'clock was first shot, all others after a couple clicks to the left. Did pretty good compared to the Winchester- 97-2x Field Grade SA vs. 98-3x Service Grade Winchester. This with a sloppy gas cylinder and a lower band that flops around so much that it barely stays in place. The hackberry stock seems to have very good dimensions and holds the package together well without rubbing the op rod etc. The Winchester has had a few as-issued mods and corrections including a trigger job for ~4.7 lbs pull. The Field Grade SA has a trigger pull about 6.8 lbs but it feels like more.

Barrel was a 2-muzzle wear, 3- throat, with a bore that looks very good. Seems to shoot just fine- actually quite well for what it is. Guess I should be nice to it and give it a make-over rather than considering it an organ donor, LOL.

edit-

That shot at 12:00 high for the Winchester was a total HXP flyer. Was not at all expecting that shot to hit high. Next shot was grouped with others.

Most M1s field and service grades should hold the black. (Note that the ",accuracy standard" for the M1 was only marginally tighter than the 9 ring)_Only field grades pushing the MW/TE limits will by a little less likely to hold decent.
I find in my short limited experience with the M1 most people getting really poor accuracy either can't shoot well as it is or the bench it and put the front handgard on the bag/rest.
Some M1 s will have issues no dount. I have one SA service grade that will shoot a nice tight sub 3" group for about 8 -12 rounds then something happens and the impacts start to shift. The shift is pretty dependable/predictable as the gun gets hot.

Some say 40% of the M1 accuracy relies on a decent fitting stock. Add some good quality bullets ( PPU M2 new production is much better than HXP surplus, I don't bother with the federal/AE M2 stuff because of the price) to some reloads and they can shoot well. I have another M1 I plan on giving a little time up to. This one might get a glass bed?

 

[Mountain]

Big oops on my part- didn't look super close at the serial number and assumed it was a 6M number. It's actually a 600K number! Should be April of 1942. I am told there is almost complete certainty it would have been originally sent to the Pacific.

Receiver checks out OK, so onward with disregard for history. Just kidding- total mixmaster so no harm done.

M1's were returned from Turkey slightly before the M1's from the Philippines arrived. CMP kept that one relatively quiet and was already working on getting the Turk M1's ready for shipment. I'm curious if this came from one of those shipments. The bore was very bright and smooth, so wherever the source it did not see any rust. Turkey? While driving to the match yesterday I did see a car on I-495 nail a turkey and send it flying about 50 feet into the air, so I'm going with Turkey.

 

[Mountain]

Picked up 'organ donor' from Franco this evening:

Op rod and rear sight were toast, so had those replaced. Hardware on the stock was Bubba'd, thus replaced as well. Based on the brown rust colored receiver and Bubba jobs, Franco had guessed Greek return. Close- it's probably one of the Turk returns that recently arrived at CMP. Very nice and even park job helps to hide the pits that were showing on the receiver.

Franco suggested this was a nice looking stock and that the wood would look nicer with a natural finish. Glad I went with that- nice color despite being unstained wood. Mac gave me the head's up regarding the DuPage sale on the tiger stripe stocks and I'm a sucker for nice figure- so here it is after banking it for months.

Hope to have some time Saturday AM to take it to the range in order to give the Krieger barrel a proper break-in.

 

[76Too]

take my money...how much for the turkey tiger!

dude, that's one of the most beautiful garand stocks i've ever seen.

i don't even care how the rifle shoots anymore

 

[Mountain]

take my money...how much for the turkey tiger!

dude, that's one of the most beautiful garand stocks i've ever seen.

i don't even care how the rifle shoots anymore

Thanks- helps to turn it over to someone who really knows how to finish a stock. When on sale, the stock was a decent deal too, ~$150 or $155 if I recall correctly. They are $175 now but out of stock. DuPage isn't making a ton of money on these things.

I skipped a planned PRS build to do this. Figured I can always do that someday and should get moving on a nice match Garand while I have the contacts, resources, and parts to do it.

 

[mac1911]

Thanks- helps to turn it over to someone who really knows how to finish a stock. When on sale, the stock was a decent deal too, ~$150 or $155 if I recall correctly. They are $175 now but out of stock. DuPage isn't making a ton of money on these things.

I skipped a planned PRS build to do this. Figured I can always do that someday and should get moving on a nice match Garand while I have the contacts, resources, and parts to do it.

Glad you got one of those stocks and it was good enough to use. I was to busy getting other things done and never grabbed one of those stocks for myself.
I need to call franco and see if he will do my 308 stock.
i have 2 stocks to choose from if they are worthy of fiting to the 308. They have ZERO looks just plain jane grain.