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Wifi network design for a new house

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by rep308, Oct 15, 2018.

  1. Mawagian

    Mawagian

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    I’m a huge fan of Ubiquiti stuff. People that dog it usually don’t know how to set it up. For that size house I would put one AP like the uap AC on each floor. Mount them to the ceilings in the center of the structure . Also you don’t really need to get a POE switch unless you have a need for other POE ports for other POE devices like cameras etc. because each Ubiquiti AP comes with its own POE injector. The Ubiquiti Edge router X is also a nice little router with plenty of throughput capability for home use. So from your provider just get a modem (wired) for a route to the internet.
     

  2. 42!

    42! NES Life Member NES Member

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    My comments to never use Ubiquiti are specific to the UniFi line, I routinely use their Edge Switch, just be sure to upgrade the firmware out of the box. They are still shipping with the 1.0.1 version and the management (GUI and SSH) become unresponsive after a little time of moderate traffic.
     
  3. Kevin_NH

    Kevin_NH

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    I'm strongly in the "Conduit" camp -- I'd still run two pair of Cat6 strategically where you know you definitely need reliable network connectivity (for wireless APs, TV, gaming PC, cameras). If conduit everywhere is cost-prohibitive, at least add a large diameter run from whereever the modem would be to each floor and also a run to the attic. Cap off the conduit at both ends -- keeps it from getting gunked up during drywalling, and keeps the fire inspector happy.
     
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  4. rep308

    rep308 NES Member

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    Current plan it to run this stuff: Sewell SolidRun RG6 + Cat6 Siamese 1000ft - SewellDirect.com

    2 cat 6 and 1 RG 6 cable to each bedroom and the family room media area and two cat 6 and maybe power to the central first floor and second floor ceiling for Unifi units. Trying to run a two inch conduit from the basement utility side to attic above the 2nd floor to future proof things
     
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  5. n1bsbri

    n1bsbri NES Member

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    You don't need to run power to the Unifi APs, they are POE, the injector can be near the router / switch where you plug it into the network. Just CAT5 / CAT6 to the AP.
     
  6. Rob Boudrie

    Rob Boudrie NES Member

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    Screw the injector, just use a router that supplies POE. I like the Netgear GS100TP. Just be sure you get POE+ if your equipment requires it, though the cameras and WAPs I've seen don't need the extra wattage of +.
     
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  7. n1bsbri

    n1bsbri NES Member

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    Yes, definitely a cleaner solution if planning to replace the switch / router, or supply a new one. However, I'm cheap and I used the injectors that came with the Unifi APs, and kept my old switch. :emoji_wink:
     
  8. rep308

    rep308 NES Member

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    I'm new to this and on the hook for the design. They probably will get FIOS as the source, here is the plan

    Ubiquiti Networks Unifi 802.11ac Dual-Radio PRO Access Point (UAP-AC-PRO-US)

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B015PRO51...olid=2FZHKAB4F68P2&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

    Ubiquiti Networks 8-Port UniFi Switch, Managed PoE+ Gigabit Switch with SFP, 150W

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DKXT4C...olid=2FZHKAB4F68P2&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

    Keep in mind that this is for a two story 2400 sq ft colonial residence so I don't want to go too overboard
     
  9. JackOfAllTrades

    JackOfAllTrades

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    You might want to rethink that cable.

    The CAT6 is copper clad aluminum and the RG6 is copper clad steel.

    You will eventually have issues with the aluminum creeping in the crimp connectors resulting in bad connections. The steel core will eventually have rust issues (remember, the end is exposed where cut).

    If this cable is stapled to the studs it isn't going to be replaceable. You might want to go with cable that has actual copper conductors.
     
  10. Rob Boudrie

    Rob Boudrie NES Member

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    Regular network cable sold as Cat 6 or 6a is often copper clad AL, especially if you see an incredible price. Be sure to check this at both purchase time and when you get your cable.
     
  11. drgrant

    drgrant Moderator NES Member

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    That stuff is so cheap/skinflint that I would be deeply suspicious of it because of the price alone, unless the price of copper has plummeted which is pretty
    doubtful.

    I don't even think you can get a 1000 foot reel of real CAT-6 plenum for $159 these days. Hell I think in the distant past that is about what I paid for 1000 feet
    of PVC riser CAT-5.

    -Mike
     
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  12. rep308

    rep308 NES Member

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    Thanks I'll review the cable selection and maybe just run individual cables. I'm not trying to cheap out, I'm just new to this as I've never purchased or run my own stuff.
     
  13. Rob Boudrie

    Rob Boudrie NES Member

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    You would be right - check the product listing.

    The way they write the spec is designed to have amateurs miss the fact that the RG6 is copper clad AL is by listing it as "
    High Copper Content CCA". It's no accident that Copper is spelled out and Aluminum is only listed via the abbreviation "CCA".

    High Copper Content CCA is an oxymoron.

    I recently bought a 1000ft spool of outdoor rated Cat6 for the gun club and there was lots of copper clad on Amazon, but some vendors had solid copper. I got the later.

    My only use for copper clad is the bottom of cooking pots and jacketed bullets.

    Oh, and those 1/2" long grounding rods that used to be copper? They are now copper clad something.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
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  14. Rob Boudrie

    Rob Boudrie NES Member

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    Be sure to get a nice crimping tool for the RJ45 connectors. I suggest using the T568B wiring standard as that is the most common in use. After doing a few, you won't even have to look up the color sequence.

    [​IMG]
     
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  15. drgrant

    drgrant Moderator NES Member

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    I'll add that if he does things the "correct way" he will never have to crimp a single connector in the entire system. If it's not installed with punch down tools, you're probably doing something wrong. I think they even sell cheap PDTs at Home Deepco and other places now for under 50 bucks now. I still have a couple Harris/Dracon tools, though. Yes, doing things the right way incurs cost (patch panels, boxes, or what have you) but it's short money to not have the grief of hand crimped connectors. One of my customers has a skinflint hand crimped system in his store and I periodically have to repair connections for him as a result. Solid core premise wiring is meant to be fixed in place and never flexed or moved much after it's installed.

    Of course some will argue "well I did it this way and it works" and yeah it does work, but it's just setting yourself up to drive you crazy down the road.

    Knowing what I know now I'd buy a punch down tool long before a crimper. I still have a crimper around somewhere, but I'm more apt to use that for ham radio crap than data stuff... (some ham rigs use RJ-45 jacks for microphone connectors).

    -Mike
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  16. Rob Boudrie

    Rob Boudrie NES Member

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    Plastic wire ties are fine as long as you don't cinch them down tightly enough to pinch the cable. There should be no more than about 1/2" of straight wire after the twist.

    Watch for deceptive terms in cable advertising like one I saw an Amazon recently - "High copper content CCA". They were bragging that their copper plate was thick, and using an acronym to hide the Aluminum core. You should go for solid copper even if it co$ts a bit more (we're talking on the order of 20% or so, not a multiple of the price)

    For small scale fiber installs, it makes more sense to buy pre-terminated and tested cable rather than invest $8K or so in a splicer, plus the job looks neater. I've had great luck with www.lanshack.com for this.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2019
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  17. Rob Boudrie

    Rob Boudrie NES Member

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    I think I got my Fluke 66/110 punchdown tool from Lowes. I used it for RJ11 phone cables; the punchdown block for my landlines; and for installing female RJ45 sockets in single gang outlet boxes.

    That being said...

    How do you connect your cables to POE routers or to cameras that use a female RJ45 connector? I've never seen either device that uses a punchdown connection.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2019
  18. rep308

    rep308 NES Member

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    update:

    Met with the electrician at my daughter's house being built. We are running cat 6 and RG6 into every bedroom and a central closet on the first and second floor. I've decided on Netgear Orbi units as they are easy to manage and have good review. Each floor is 1200 sq feet and with the central location of the wifi units should give great coverage with a unit in the central closet on the first and second floor.

    The electrician said that there may be problems with the inspector running a power outlet in an enclosed closet. If there is we will run a switched light and use that if the inspector doesn't allow for a plug in the closets.
     
  19. crazymjb

    crazymjb

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    I could foresee some potential needs for ultra-high bandwith, though I've never done the math. I'm just thinking VR stuff that demands incredibly high resolution over a large display area. Maybe I'm still way off, but I figure that would demand multiple times what is required for 4K.

    To the OP, the conduit tubing is a great idea. Whenever we build we will be doing that.
     
  20. Chevy 2 65

    Chevy 2 65 NES Member

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    To add
    Ubiquiti Networks - Democratizing Professional Network Technology
     
  21. RapidTransit

    RapidTransit NES Member

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    There's a new spec in the works for this, Belden has one REVConnect FlexPlug - Belden
    Also Seimon and Panduit have modular plugs, CommScope probably has one too but their website is a nightmare.
     
  22. usp45ct

    usp45ct

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    Actually, relatively speaking, cat 6 and SM fiber is pretty cheap if you know where to look. Cat6 you buy in bulk and connectorize later. SM fiber with UPC or APC connectors with LC or SC connectors with G.657 or bend nsensitive from a reputable supplier is about $20-30 for 20 meter patch cord lengths...and that is duplexed
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2019
  23. 1776

    1776 NES Member

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  24. PaulD

    PaulD

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    Having built a couple of houses, I vote for running 2 drops of the latest ethernet cable standard you can find. At this point, that would be CAT7 (not sure if it's truly accepted yet). I might even do 3 drops if it's an area that will have media equipment or function as an office. In addition to that, I'd run one ethernet drop external to the house where you might want security cameras so you can use PoE. Ubiquiti makes some nice cameras here.

    Additionally, run at least one conduit from the basement to the attic for future proofing. It's not that difficult to run ethernet up from the basement or down from the attic through walls if you have that conduit.

    As for 10G, I've had gig-e capable ethernet in my house for 20 years and I still don't see those network speeds. I use FIOS 100mb service for ethernet and have no TV or phone from them. It's all streaming services and use both an Apple TV and an XBox for those. It's fine. I can't see that 10G will be necessary in my lifetime.

    Finally, the Ubiquiti stuff is nice for Wifi but they also make the Amplifi mesh line. They work great in a home and typical usage patterns mean the only devices that will be hardwired are those that don't move.
     
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  25. Rob Boudrie

    Rob Boudrie NES Member

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    I got SM fiber UPC from www.lanshack.com. Two strand indoor/outdoor cable with pull eye connectors on both ends was $443.58 for 975ft (297 meters) and $483.73 for 1100ft (335 meters), which is in line with your prices. There is a fixed price for a short run and a per-foot price for the extra length, so the added per-foot length is a bit less than a linear pro-ration of these prices. I used indoor/outdoor because this was being run in underground conduit that could get flooded (which always seems to happen no matter how well the joints are clued). Field termination of fiber is a pain, especially SM, so I just buy pre-terminated cables. The interface prices have really come down - I got mini GBICS for the SFP port on Netgear GS100TP routers for under $40 each. These were only rated for 10KM; the 40KM versions were about $240 each.
     
  26. drgrant

    drgrant Moderator NES Member

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    Patch cables to surface mount or in wall boxes or patch panels as appropriate. With CCTV, yes, sometimes it's more elegant just to crimp a connector. CCTV might as well be the sole exception, because the devices stay in one place and don't get moved/touched, they're not as vulnerable as client desktop/tv/etc connections.

    Even an AP mounted on a ceiling should be plugged into a box.... when you throw away the AP makes damage less likely.

    The basic deal is solid conductor cat6 should be installed in such a way that it isnt getting repetitive flexed etc. Plant wiring shouldn't be "floating about"...
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2019
  27. LuvDog

    LuvDog NES Member

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    When you say the “WiFi unit” will be in a central closet, do you actually mean the acces point will be in closed door closet?

    It will work, but there is a signal drop through walls and closed doors. It’s best to have the AP mounted on a ceiling in the open.

    Will you notice the signal drop? Maybe not, but if you’re going to this much trouble then why start off with a bad design?
     
  28. MachineHead

    MachineHead NES Member

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  29. AHM

    AHM NES Member

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  30. Coyote33

    Coyote33

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    I have a colonial, 2 floors, with one lower end Netgear Wi-Fi router at the top of the basement stairs. It services 4 phones, 2 ipads, a laptop, and sometimes friends' phones. Most of these are within 20 feet in any of the surrounding rooms, or directly above on the second floor. There is an Xbox and a PC hard-wired into the same router. I don't care about outside.

    That said, I agree that maybe having a conduit (with extra pull string) would not be a bad idea. Maybe put a Wi-Fi at the top of basement stairs like I have, and another upstairs. Definitely go with the POE (Power Over Ethernet), to avoid extra wiring needs. I can't imagine that won't hold you for 5-10 years, and the conduit will allow future changes.

    Good luck.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2019

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