Why is the IRS arming agents?

[StevensMarksman]

Sorry if a dupe.

This article made my hair stand up a bit...

http://www.examiner.com/article/irs-to-hire-and-arm-agents-to-enforce-compliance-with-obamacare

Get ready for forced home inspections!

StevensMarksman

 

[Artifact]

Sorry if a dupe.

This article made my hair stand up a bit...

http://www.examiner.com/article/irs-to-hire-and-arm-agents-to-enforce-compliance-with-obamacare

Get ready for forced home inspections!

StevensMarksman

They have been armed for a long time, this is nothing new.

 

[GhostArcher]

This could get interesting.

 

[taz-2005]

They have been armed for a long time, this is nothing new.

Yep

 

[StevensMarksman]

They have been armed for a long time, this is nothing new.

With ARs? Didn't know tax evasion investigating was so dangerousness. /shrug

StevensMarksman

 

[Twigg]

But now it's not just an agent with a revolver, its entire SWAT teams.

 

[NewGunGuy]

They will be just doing their jobs and have no remorse over doing it and anyone else thinks otherwise is just ignorant!


Charles.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I know someone who was an IRS Investigator who helped put away some of the mob bosses, do you really think these people went unarmed? And this was 30-40 years ago.

Now the IRS auditor I met with a few years ago for a tax audit I'm sure that she wasn't armed. Different job, different tools.

 

[taz-2005]

With ARs? Didn't know tax evasion investigating was so dangerousness. /shrug

StevensMarksman

This is the training course.

Internal Revenue Manual - 9.2.1 Training

Exhibit 9.2.1-4
Criminal Investigation Rifle Qualification Course

Rifle: Smith & Wesson M&P15
PREPARE 2 MAGAZINES, 28 ROUNDS EACH (M&P15), DUTY CARRY
PREPARE 1 MAGAZINE, 4 ROUNDS (GLOCK HANDGUN), DUTY CARRY
THIS COURSE OF FIRE IS HOT FROM START TO FINISH
Distance Description
Stage I
25 Yard Line -While standing, with rifle slung, duty load with one 28 round magazine. When the targets face, you will charge your weapon and fire 5 rounds from the kneeling position and 5 rounds from the prone position in 30 seconds. Targets edge, make the line secure.
Stage II
25 Yard Line –From the low ready. When the targets face, you will fire 5 rounds from the standing position and fire 5 rounds from the kneeling position in 20 seconds. Targets edge, make the line secure.
Move to the 15 yard line
Stage III
15 Yard Line –From the low ready. When the targets face you will fire 3 rounds center mass in four seconds. Then repeat:
•3 rounds center mass in 4 seconds. Targets edge.
•3 rounds center mass in 4 seconds. Targets edge.
From the low ready. When the targets face, you will fire 2 rounds center mass, transition to GLOCK handgun and fire 2 rounds center mass in 10 seconds. Targets edge, make the line secure.
Holster GLOCK handgun, make rifle safe, move to 15 yard line (have shooters lay rifle at 15 yard line) score and replace target with new target
Load rifle with 28 round magazine
Stage IV
15 Yard Line –With rifle slung from the low ready. When the targets face you will fire 2 rounds center mass, 1 round to the head in 5 seconds. Targets edge. Then repeat:
•2 rounds center mass, 1 round to the head in 5 seconds. Targets edge.
•2 rounds center mass, 1 round to the head in 5 seconds. Targets edge.
•2 rounds center mass, 1 round to the head in 5 seconds. Targets edge.
Make weapon secure and move to seven yard line
Instructors mark head shots
Stage V - Weapon should not be slung at this time
7 Yard Line -With rifle un-slung from the low ready. When the targets face you will fire 6 rounds center mass in 5 seconds. Then repeat:
•6 rounds center mass in 5 seconds. Targets edge.
•6 rounds center mass in 5 seconds. Targets edge.
•6 rounds center mass in 5 seconds. Targets edge.
From the low ready. When the targets face you will fire 1 round center mass transition to GLOCK handgun fire 2 rounds to the head (strong hand only) 10 seconds.
CLEAR WEAPONS AND MAKE THE LINE SAFE
Scoring -
Trans Star II targets
Normal scoring – 5, 4, 3, and 2 point rings
60 total rounds – 300 maximum score
225 minimum score = 75%

 

[Len-2A Training]

With ARs? Didn't know tax evasion investigating was so dangerousness. /shrug

StevensMarksman

Really????

See my comment above.

 

[NewGunGuy]

Really????

See my comment above.

Yeah but Len, remember the average citizen that is tired of the crap this govt is pulling would get the same treatment for refusing to pay for this osamacare crap! I for one am one of them, so I guess they need to come to me with military tactics also huh? The story wasn't about crime organizations, it was about the common citizen that knows this is unconstitutional and refuses to conform to these NAZI'S!

Charles.

 

[GunGrey]

Cause pay me my mother****in money

Or get got

 

[Rob Boudrie]

The arming of a federal agent serves two purposes:

- It gives the ability to use force (self defense, offensive action to effect arrest, etc.)

- It is a symbol of power over the ordinary citizen who, in general, is unarmed. This is why some obscure agencies such as poultry inspectors are armed.

 

[josh2600]

I know someone who was an IRS Investigator who helped put away some of the mob bosses, do you really think these people went unarmed? And this was 30-40 years ago.

Now the IRS auditor I met with a few years ago for a tax audit I'm sure that she wasn't armed. Different job, different tools.

Difference between armed agents and raid teams.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Yeah but Len, remember the average citizen that is tired of the crap this govt is pulling would get the same treatment for refusing to pay for this osamacare crap! I for one am one of them, so I guess they need to come to me with military tactics also huh? The story wasn't about crime organizations, it was about the common citizen that knows this is unconstitutional and refuses to conform to these NAZI'S!

Charles.

Charles, I'll grant you that this quote from the link above does not compute with the rest of the story.

["The law, however, severely limits the ability of the IRS to collect the penalties. There are no civil or criminal penalties for refusing to pay it and the IRS cannot seize bank accounts or dock wages to collect it. No interest accumulates for unpaid penalties."/QUOTE]

In most cases the IRS seizes bank accounts/income/other assets "from the back room" when people refuse to pay whatever they think they are owed. No armed intervention required. If it is seizing a home/car or other tangible asset, yes they have always used armed agents.

Investigators have always been armed as well.

If they truly have no power to assess criminal penalties, their actions sound like opportunism to get new toys and get out there hoping that a new law will give them enforcement powers.

 

[StevensMarksman]

Really????

See my comment above.

Sorry bud. My post was before yours.

I still think it is over kill if the intentions of the IRS are solely to enforcing currant tax code. We have task force agencies that would be better suited for smashing down the door of some crime syndicate that didn't file last year. FBI, Marshall service, LEO swat, just to name a few.

The whole idea of a military style IRS is just plain wrong.

StevensMarksman

 

[Len-2A Training]

The arming of a federal agent serves two purposes:

- It is a symbol of power over the ordinary citizen who, in general, is unarmed. This is why some obscure agencies such as poultry inspectors are armed.

Chickens can get downright nasty, so they need guns for self-defense in case the chicken doesn't want to get "inspected"!

 

[knoxy]

I know someone who was an IRS Investigator who helped put away some of the mob bosses,

Explain the difference between the gov't and the mob please.

 

[ColdDayInHell]

Cause pay me my mother****in money

Or get got

Basically yep.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Explain the difference between the gov't and the mob please.

One operates "under color of law"!

 

[MagGus1820]

Explain the difference between the gov't and the mob please.

The mob admits they're criminals?

 

[NewGunGuy]

One operates "under color of law"!

Yeah that the corrupt politicians just make new ones to comply with what they want to do anyway. So I don't want to start anything here with you Len, since we have met before and seem like a nice guy, but I believe the govt and the people working for them will have no problems with taking out the little guy just because they were "Doing their jobs". We shall see though what happens in the coming years as they try to enforce this osamacare!


Charles.

 

[TOM1960]

But now it's not just an agent with a revolver, its entire SWAT teams.

They always had more than revolvers. As far back at the late 1970s, they also had 12 gauge Remington 870s. They were Treasury Department agents, just like the Secret Service, and were often detailed to the USSS for VIP protection. Those protection-detail IRS agents carried UZIs as well as revolvers and 870s.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Yeah that the corrupt politicians just make new ones to comply with what they want to do anyway. So I don't want to start anything here with you Len, since we have met before and seem like a nice guy, but I believe the govt and the people working for them will have no problems with taking out the little guy just because they were "Doing their jobs". We shall see though what happens in the coming years as they try to enforce this osamacare!


Charles.

Charles,

Just reporting the facts. I'm not going to stand up for them and I agree with you that they will have no ethical problem taking from anyone because they are told to do so. I'm certain that many in my PD will do the same if told to do so. I've seen that marked shift in attitudes over the years and I'm glad not to work there anymore.

They always had more than revolvers. As far back at the late 1970s, they also had 12 gauge Remington 870s. They were Treasury Department agents, just like the Secret Service, and were often detailed to the USSS for VIP protection. Those protection-detail IRS agents carried UZIs as well as revolvers and 870s.

When I met with my friend at his office in Boston he was carrying a semi-auto as I recall and that was in the 1980s.

 

[TOM1960]

Charles,

Just reporting the facts. I'm not going to stand up for them and I agree with you that they will have no ethical problem taking from anyone because they are told to do so. I'm certain that many in my PD will do the same if told to do so. I've seen that marked shift in attitudes over the years and I'm glad not to work there anymore.




When I met with my friend at his office in Boston he was carrying a semi-auto as I recall and that was in the 1980s.

I spent some time working at the IRS as part of my accounting career when I was a young man. The armed agents are CID (Criminal Investigation Division) and Internal Inspection Bureau. They had some nice toys! First time I ever saw a folding-stock 14" barrel Remington 870 with ghost-ring sights. Really cool guys, too. One of them had been on Secret Service details to guard Betty Ford when she was in Boston.

 

[Johnnycakes]

Gimme a break with this crap, and try to use a little common sense and not sound like some kook claiming sovereign citizenship in the woods of Idaho, ok?

This is the IRS' CID - criminal investigations division. When a big drug bust is going down, IRS's CID people are often there right along side FBI and BATF, and just as well armed. They aren't sending SWAT after you because you overstated your charitable deductions by $1,000 on your last tax return, guys. But if you're laundering big money, distributing a large quantity of illegal drugs, or otherwise may be owing some serious, serious money in back taxes because of illegally earned and unreported income.... IRS's CID will be there along with the other agencies.

 

[StevensMarksman]

Gimme a break with this crap, and try to use a little common sense and not sound like some kook claiming sovereign citizenship in the woods of Idaho, ok?

This is the IRS' CID - criminal investigations division. When a big drug bust is going down, IRS's CID people are often there right along side FBI and BATF, and just as well armed. They aren't sending SWAT after you because you overstated your charitable deductions by $1,000 on your last tax return, guys. But if you're laundering big money, distributing a large quantity of illegal drugs, or otherwise may be owing some serious, serious money in back taxes because of illegally earned and unreported income.... IRS's CID will be there along with the other agencies.

I really hope, and want to believe ^^this. But, I'm not too sure.

StevensMarksman

 

[mikeyp]

Explain the difference between the gov't and the mob please.

The mob runs efficiently?

 

[WatchCityCPA]

Explain the difference between the gov't and the mob please.

The mob did not succeed in eliminating all competition and becoming a complete monopoly.

 

[60 mike mike.]

The mob actually turns a profit, not a deficit.