Why is the .40 caliber losing popularity?

[GlockJock]

I have a G23 and a 33 with a 40 barrel.
Snappy caliber, easy to reload. Never understood the hate. One of the big things was the government ordering them in mass, over the 9mm. But since then, the 9mm has developed ballastically and with between 2 and 4 more rounds per mag.

This.
I'll take 18 rounds in my G17 over similar size guns with less capacity... Last sound you ever wanna hear in a gunfight is "click" from YOUR OWN gun.

 

[TrashcanDan]

The only thing deadlier than .40, is .40 MAGNUM, or what you ladies call "10 MM" in all your metric silliness.

 

[drgrant]

The point is valid - in a ban state, if the choices are a 10 round 9mm or 10 round .40, myself I will take the .40...

I won't. Shit value retention (long term), then, in smaller handguns, unless you have gorilla hands, your splits are likely slower, all kinds of downsides.

I used to be one of those retards that would make the capacity/vs juice argument etcetera but as time went on I realize how stupid that was and it's not even the fundamental high order thing in choosing a defensive handgun past a certain point....

Honestly, though? IMO don't make up convoluted justifications to buy a handgun, just buy the f***ing thing if you want it. If you want a 40 buy it. if you want a 9 buy a 9... I don't try to justify it using dumbo logic because it usually doesn't really pan out when exposed to real scrutiny. Like for example I have a bunch of friends that carry revolvers but most of them just carry it because they like the gun, not because they have made some kind of a stupid justification for it , like the old Boomer horse shit about "revolvers jamming less" or some bullshit like that.... confidence in ones ability with the platform is a big intangible that's underrated.

ETA: Right now new shooters don't have too many choices. There is serious FOMO going on. If they hem and haw too long, someone else will buy their shit. That is a FACT.... but that could go away in a month, or be around for a year... nobody knows.

 

[drgrant]

I had a USP 40 so long ago I have forgotten the comparative recoil vs. the G23 I have now. Actually it's a G23C (factory compensated) which tames the muzzle flip. Based on foggy memory, seems that the USP was no worse than the G23 with like for like ammo.

How would you compare the two? My recollection may be totally off...

The USP was great because it was FIRST designed around the .40. For a polymer framed handgun, even with hot 165gr stuff, it was very soft recoiling, shot like a laser, and actually
pointed relatively well for me unlike the newer HKs. Same thing with the Sig P229. Soft, lumpy recoil, easily controlled.

A G22, 23? Sharper, more obnoxious recoil, although the Gen4s are somewhat improved. If someone has good fundamentals not a problem to control those guns, assuming their
hands fit the guns. If their hands don't fit the guns, a .40 Glock is a nightmare which is where some of the whining comes from. I bet the C version guns are a lot calmer overall in terms of
snap, etc.

Let me put it this way, I have a couple Glock 32s. In terms of energy they are not that far off from a .40.... and I find the G32 to be less snappy than a G22/23 is, although I will say this... the
felt recoil, vs time, is actually worse. Like even though the gun is more controllable, you will feel it in your hands after awhile shooting the hotter 357 sig, it will creep up on you. Goddam
that caliber is fun, though!

A simple hack I tried that I would recommend to others who want a G34: The G35 is basically the same thing as the G34 but for .40. It's much less popular and typically cheaper used whether you want the whole gun or simply to source a slide for an existing frame. I had a G34 but ended up selling it to fund other projects and later came across a cheap G35. Pick your poison for conversion barrels (I like Storm Lake or KKM) and now you have a 'bull barrel' G34. The quality barrel and extra heft help with smoother shooting and improved accuracy. Added bonus would be no worries for shooting cast with the standard barrel rifling and you get better case support as well.

(ETA: This is potentially good advice if someone is flinting, though... maybe. ? )

I would only ever buy a G35 if I was getting into USP Limited and wanted a cheap gun or something like that to do it with. Otherwise most people will be far better served by just getting a
G34. I don't run conversion barrels, never have, never will. I f***ing hate that stuff. Perhaps irrationally but I have enough video evidence/PTSD in my brain of "converted" handguns
f***ing up, that it makes me not want to touch that shit. Not now, not ever. Usually those were the people I saw at pin and plate shoots getting their own ass kicked by their "conversion"
gun. Do some people run conversions that work fine? Sure, but they're not likely the majority. And even for most of those people, when you talk to them for more than 5 minutes... they run the 9mm barrel in the gun 95% of the time anyways. So why not just skip all the faggotry and buy the 9 to begin with? And if they can't justify spending the extra $ for the gun in the other caliber, chances are they didn't need it or want it badly enough to begin with.

I'm the type of person rather than convert a gun I will buy another one. In relative terms, things like Glocks are cheap, so there's no point to me in "converting" one, when I can get two wins at once by just buying another one. You win an extra gun and an extra caliber. Maybe convert to run something the factory doesn't sell, like .400 Corbon, .460 Rowland or whatever, yeah, I
get that... but otherwise? Meh.

 

[Mountain]

At the time, I had no regrets selling that first gen USP40. I kinda hated the trigger. Now that I have Glocks? I regret the sale and miss that trigger. LOL

 

[glostamon]

Just picked up a .357 sig barrel for a Sig P229 .40 I scored on classifieds here (pre-pants shitting pandemic) . The 229 shoots .40 great and the .357 sig does not feel significantly less felt recoil in comparison.
I would also endorse the full size Walther P99 as an an extremely comfortable handgun chambered in .40 to shoot.

 

[Road_Clam]

My first of many handguns purchased back in 2013 was a used G35 in absolutely mint condition . Gun store owner: "I took this in trade from a new woman shooter" Only gun I could find on the shelves at the time, and I was a noob to the "gun panic" scene. Now I know why the woman traded it in , probably put 20 rounds through and said "not for me" . My G35 is my least liked gun to shoot. Typical Glock dead balls reliability and simplicity but very fierce snappy recoil and I get a very odd trigger slap which irritates my finger after say 30 rounds. But not to worry, I have about 4000 .401 180gr projectiles that will eventually get loaded up and run through my Kimber Target II Long Slide 10mm. Now were talking a NICE controllable shooter that packs some serious downrange energy.

 

[oldguy68]

Drgrant, 9mm make plenty of sense in everything it does.
I just get a kick out of the whole Oh, to the NOS, not a fourtay thing.
9mm is cheaper to shoot, has a higher mag capacity and less recoil for follow up shots.

The 40 was created for the FBI, who in their infinite wisdom figured out if your going to miss at least miss with a bigger round.
Everything has come full circle since the 1990's and we are back to the 1980's wondernine years!

Self defense ammo has gotten better in every caliber used for personal defense and the Glock pistols still rule the day!
Sure ergonomics has gotten better, but what has really changed since the first Glock 17 and 19 pistols hit the market?

Other than we have smaller and lighter pistols now with a larger mag capacity.
But they are also harder to grip and control.

 

[Realtor MA]

I've been told that an extensive survey was done to determine whether 9mm is more popular than .40. The results favored the 9mm. They used both electronic machinery and mail in surveys. Ironically the .40 was well ahead until the mail in ballots were counted.

 

[enbloc]

Rudy's on it...



Or... gassy.

 

[Broc]

Might look close in the picture but in reality hard to mistake, not to mention .40 isn't fitting into a 9mm. The other way around you may be distracted enough to pull it off but I don't think it's like the 300 blk in 5.56 kaboom trick, I think you would just potentially eject a gnarly 9mm case, make a bad shot, possibly not quite get the power to fully cycle etc. I bet someone here has done it and can speak from experience.

A .380 shot in a 9mm wouldn't be a big deal. I dont recommend people try it, but the gun should be fine.

A .40, as mentioned above, you can tell the difference. The pic can be misleading.

 

[MAGA99]

A .380 shot in a 9mm wouldn't be a big deal. I dont recommend people try it, but the gun should be fine.

A .40, as mentioned above, you can tell the difference. The pic can be misleading.

I have heard third person of someone that accidentally shot 380 through a 9mm, it was loud and the bullet left the barrel but didn’t fully cycle the gun. They said it was scary don’t try it. Seems like a legit story, but now it’s like 4th person with me retelling it here.

 

[drgrant]

I have heard third person of someone that accidentally shot 380 through a 9mm, it was loud and the bullet left the barrel but didn’t fully cycle the gun. They said it was scary don’t try it. Seems like a legit story, but now it’s like 4th person with me retelling it here.

I've done it with a Beretta 92 before a hundred years ago by accident we had 9 mm in 380 on the same dish. The 380s would not cycle the gun at all but they still fired....

 

[MAGA99]

I've done it with a Beretta 92 before a hundred years ago by accident we had 9 mm in 380 on the same dish. The 380s would not cycle the gun at all but they still fired....

I have a 9mm on me and a box of 380 on top of the kitchen fridge....should I try it out?

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I have a 9mm on me and a box of 380 on top of the kitchen fridge....should I try it out?

No.

 

[Realtor MA]

Ive heard that 9mm in a .40 may not cycle the gun, will probably make its way through the barrel and will likely split the case.

 

[Dennis in MA]

I’ve made a 9mm/40 in my time. Makes seating the next 9 easier but crimping is a bitch.

 

[mrmike7189]

I got a lot of 40 cal ammo for super cheap a few years back,so I'm stuck with it.
It's all I shoot now. ...since I cant find any 9mm anymore.
I actually like the 40 . makes bigger holes in the paper that i can see without a spotters scope
It

 

[Mountain]

The USP was great because it was FIRST designed around the .40. For a polymer framed handgun, even with hot 165gr stuff, it was very soft recoiling, shot like a laser, and actually
pointed relatively well for me unlike the newer HKs. Same thing with the Sig P229. Soft, lumpy recoil, easily controlled.

A G22, 23? Sharper, more obnoxious recoil, although the Gen4s are somewhat improved. If someone has good fundamentals not a problem to control those guns, assuming their
hands fit the guns. If their hands don't fit the guns, a .40 Glock is a nightmare which is where some of the whining comes from. I bet the C version guns are a lot calmer overall in terms of
snap, etc.

I would only ever buy a G35 if I was getting into USP Limited and wanted a cheap gun or something like that to do it with. Otherwise most people will be far better served by just getting a
G34. I don't run conversion barrels, never have, never will. I f***ing hate that stuff. Perhaps irrationally but I have enough video evidence/PTSD in my brain of "converted" handguns

I've done enough .40 shitposting on other threads that I should revive this one, in all fairness LOL.

I really do regret letting go of that early USP 40, and I'm not joking that at that time I was not thrilled with the trigger but now that I have a pile of Glocks I would prefer the HK out of the box. However, Glocks are easy to clean up and get a nice trigger as far as striker fired goes.

The 23C I have is fun AF to shoot. Still pretty snappy but the ports mellow out the muzzle flip which IMHO is the biggest downside of the .40. Plus they do this:

That's a 22C, the 23C has just a bit more unburned powder so the flash is 'worse'. Glock killed the 'C'' models by 2014? Mall ninjas will argue that the flash is a bad idea in a gunfight but in reality that's just more poseur posturing. The 23C will be my truck gun once I leave the PRM, mainly because it's a beater. If I had a 17 or 19 that was well worn, maybe one of those would get permanent residency in the truck instead.

I'm a big fan of Storm Lake in general and have a couple of their conversion barrels. One for the 23C and one for a G35 slide I picked up on the 'flint. Never had a hiccup with either one, ever. Maybe the spring weight would be too high for lower velocity 9mm? Otherwise I would never worry about reliability with typical 9mm loads. The G35 conversion with the extra weight of the barrel + higher quality barrel makes it a better shooter than the G34 I had, which was pretty good. I think I have ~$440 in this gun including the conversion barrel? Makes a great flint-O-matic.

Years ago I was doing some business just down the road from Storm Lake's old location. I made a cold call just to see if there was something I could do with them but when I walked in, there was a target with bullet holes in the pattern of a sad face. Across the top of the target was written with a fat Sharpie, "Salesman Without An Appointment." I laughed, told them that was awesome, and after a nice conversation picked up some new business. Great folks there.