Why is Russian steel cased 7.62x39 cheaper than 5.56?

[hminsky]

I see prices on Wolf or Tula ammo and the 7.62x39 is around $0.25/rd while 5.56 is more like $0.30/rd.

The 7.62 bullets are 123 grain vs 55 grain for the 5.56. So why are the 5.56 rounds 20% more expensive, if they use less raw materials?

 

[Dirtypacman]

Supply and demand is what I expect… possibly type of powder and or tolerances levels may be some other factors.

 

[tk421991]

I see prices on Wolf or Tula ammo and the 7.62x39 is around $0.25/rd while 5.56 is more like $0.30/rd.

The 7.62 bullets are 123 grain vs 55 grain for the 5.56. So why are the 5.56 rounds 20% more expensive, if they use less raw materials?

Powder, maybe they use Berdan primers for 7.62x39 and it's cheaper for them, and they've been making 7.62x39 since 1943, so cost cutting on 7.62x39 would be easier.

They've been making .223 for what, 10, 15 years now?

 

[Wrench75]

Because the 7.62x39 is made for an inferior rifle.


































I would bet it is a combination of S&D and the fact that the brass cases cost more than the steel ones.

They've been making .223 for what, 10, 15 years now?

.223 was designed in 1964 so just a tad over 15 yrs. Also the OP asked about 5.56 not .223. 5.56 has been in service since 1962.

 

[dnepro-mike]

Powder, maybe they use Berdan primers for 7.62x39 and it's cheaper for them, and they've been making 7.62x39 since 1943, so cost cutting on 7.62x39 would be easier.

They've been making .223 for what, 10, 15 years now?

it makes no difference, boxer or berdan 223 or 5.45 or 5.56
actually 7.62x39 especially lead bullets cost them more to make more material goes into making of the case and bullet/core than 5.56 and 5.45
spoken from a mouth of a guy who works at LPZ (Lugansk Cartridge Works) one of the plants that make ammo sold under WOLF brand and some other imported brands.
according to him they sell 100k lots of 223 for less than 100k lots of 7.62x39.
this is strictly demand and price difference that's manufactured this side of Atlantic.
he says that plant added a third shift and production lines are on 24/7. they have not seen this kind of demand since 90s

he also said that 100klots of 9mm are on order of 30-40% cheaper than any rifle ammo they make depending on the bullet core they use. for as long as i remember 9mm was priced at about same 20c/r same as 223 and 5.45 and 7.62.

 

[dnepro-mike]

Because the 7.62x39 is made for an inferior rifle.


I would bet it is a combination of S&D and the fact that the brass cases cost more than the steel ones.


.223 was designed in 1964 so just a tad over 15 yrs. Also the OP asked about 5.56 not .223. 5.56 has been in service since 1962.

sounds like you know what you are talking about pal

 

[pdm]

he also said that 100klots of 9mm are on order of 30-40% cheaper than any rifle ammo they make depending on the bullet core they use. for as long as i remember 9mm was priced at about same 20c/r same as 223 and 5.45 and 7.62.

Will buy.

 

[PaulR]

Newb here. 7.62 is what the Mosins use right?

I just bought my first Mosin in that group buy.

You wait, my luck: 7.62 ammo will triple in price in the next 3 months.

 

[DW357]

Newb here. 7.62 is what the Mosins use right?

I just bought my first Mosin in that group buy.

You wait, my luck: 7.62 ammo will triple in price in the next 3 months.

Mosins use 7.62x54r. Aks, sks' etc. use 7.62x39

 

[peteyb]

Newb here. 7.62 is what the Mosins use right?

I just bought my first Mosin in that group buy.

You wait, my luck: 7.62 ammo will triple in price in the next 3 months.

There are several different 7.62 rounds

7.62x39 is what AK's and SKS's shoot
7.62x54r for Mosins
7.62x25 for Tokarevs
+a few others

Obviously other firearms shoot these rounds too but these are the most well known.

ETA got beat to it

 

[Ski]

7.62 x39 Available qty world wide...no other reason

 

[Boris]

556 is much more costlier to make since workers need to be cleansed from capitalism and also watch their homo exposure.

 

[warwickben]

There are several different 7.62 rounds

7.62x39 is what AK's and SKS's shoot
7.62x54r for Mosins
7.62x25 for Tokarevs
7.62x51 is also known as .308

Obviously other firearms shoot these rounds too but these are the most well known.

ETA got beat to it

This isn't a complete list lol.
7.62x54r

Rifles
The various Mosin-Nagant bolt-action rifles including the sawn-off "Obrez" pistol.
The American Winchester Model 1895. Approximately 300,000 made for the Russian army in 1915-16.
AVB-7.62
AVS-36
Dragunov sniper rifle (including Chinese NDM-86 variant)
JS 7.62
SVT-38 and SVT-40
PSL sniper rifle
M91
Berkut-2M1
IZH-18MH
SV-98 (Snaiperskaya Vintovka Model 1998)
Alejandro Sniper Rifle
Dragunov SVU (1991 redesign of the Dragunov sniper rifle)
Russian Vepr (2006+? Single Stack 16inch-27inch, Sportsman Rifle)


Machine guns.
2B-P-10
Degtyaryov machine gun (DP28) / (RP-46)
DS-39
GShG-7.62 machine gun
Hua Qing Minigun
Madsen machine gun
PK machine gun (also known as PKM).
PKP "Pecheneg" machine gun
PM M1910
PV-1 machine gun
RP-46 machine gun
Slostin machine gun
Savin-Narov machine gun
SG-43 Goryunov
ShKAS machine gun
Type 53/57 machine gun
Type 67 machine gun and Type 80 machine gun.
Type 73 light machine gun
Uk vz. 59
Zastava M84

 

[Boris]

Newb here. 7.62 is what the Mosins use right?

I just bought my first Mosin in that group buy.

You wait, my luck: 7.62 ammo will triple in price in the next 3 months.

There are so many PKMs that eat that round by cratefull, there is no way that this round will go extinct in our lifetime, it will be plentyfull for a long while

 

[drgrant]

I see prices on Wolf or Tula ammo and the 7.62x39 is around $0.25/rd while 5.56 is more like $0.30/rd.

The 7.62 bullets are 123 grain vs 55 grain for the 5.56. So why are the 5.56 rounds 20% more expensive, if they use less raw materials?

Demand curve and sticky price. 5.56/.223 always gets more "because they can".

ETA: Another reason Wolf .223 isn't as cheap as it should be is because american skinflints still salivate over minor savings, even if the savings is not that dramatic. People would still buy shit wolf .223 ammo if the case price difference was only $50.

-Mike

 

[tk421991]

.223 was designed in 1964 so just a tad over 15 yrs. Also the OP asked about 5.56 not .223. 5.56 has been in service since 1962.

I meant they as in, the Russians. The Russians haven't been making either .223 or 5.56x45 since the 60s commercially.

 

[tk421991]

Newb here. 7.62 is what the Mosins use right?

7.62 is simply a metric bullet diameter measurement. It would be like saying ".30 caliber" if you meant a .30-06, .308, or .30-30. When you write or say a metric caliber's name, it's best to give the bullet diameter and the case length.

Take 7.62x54r, the cartridge for the Mosins, the SVD, the PKM, and some Vepr rifles. 7.62 = bullet diameter (which in this case = .311"), 54 = the case is 54mm long, and r indicates rimmed. Other rimmed cartridges include .303 British, .30-30, and .22lr, in addition to most cartridges designed for revolvers.

There are many 7.62-diameter calibers. Generally speaking, 7.62 just means that the bullet is a .30 caliber. There's also 7.65 and 7.7 which are normally .303 caliber. If you ever plan on reloading, make sure to slug your Mosin's bore. 7.62x54r, 7.62x39, and I believe 7.62x38r are supposed to be .311" bullets, but the barrels can vary from .308" to around .318" (read that on 7.62x54r.net).

 

[Livefreeormass]

There are several different 7.62 rounds

7.62x39 is what AK's and SKS's shoot
7.62x54r for Mosins
7.62x25 for Tokarevs
+a few others

Obviously other firearms shoot these rounds too but these are the most well known.

ETA got beat to it

Gotta include that .308 (x51) for the good ol American rifle! Russian make the ammo, too.

 

[Jim85IROC]

I always assumed it was because all of the 7.62 manufacturers have to compete with massive quantities of inexpensive old Russian Surplus.

 

[Srboostjunkie]

My guess would be because everything about the ak platform is better including ammo prices

 

[ColdDayInHell]

There are so many PKMs that eat that round by cratefull, there is no way that this round will go extinct in our lifetime, it will be plentyfull for a long while

Things like this keep me warm inside.


PKM drool.

 

[Marston]

I always assumed it was because all of the 7.62 manufacturers have to compete with massive quantities of inexpensive old Russian Surplus.

Are the 7.62x39s in question newly manufactured or surp rounds? Could easily affect the price.

AKs - many in existence. 2nd/3rd world automatic rifle.
ARs - recent 'rich' world rifle. Why not charge more?

 

[Sig Sauer Shooter]

Because the 7.62x39 is made for an inferior rifle.

 

[Golddiggie]

Look at it like this... Brass is NOT cheap, compared with steel. Even at scrap prices, steel is ~$0.25 per pound where brass ranges from $2-$3 per pound. Projectile weight differences don't offset that large a gap in raw material cost. Just like steel case .223 ammo is FAR cheaper than brass case .223 ammo.

It shouldn't be that difficult to understand here.

 

[Jim85IROC]

Are the 7.62x39s in question newly manufactured or surp rounds? Could easily affect the price.

AKs - many in existence. 2nd/3rd world automatic rifle.
ARs - recent 'rich' world rifle. Why not charge more?

I assumed that we were discussing new steel case stuff, but when talking about 7.62, there is a tremendous volume of surplus out there that the new stuff has to compete with, whereas 223 doesn't.

 

[W.E.C]

This is why,

Алты́нного во́ра ве́шают, а полти́нного че́ствуют.

 

[BeastlyAdams]

i hear those AK47s had a lot of issues jamming, especially in sandy environments........................................

 

[Terminator03]

Look at it like this... Brass is NOT cheap, compared with steel. Even at scrap prices, steel is ~$0.25 per pound where brass ranges from $2-$3 per pound. Projectile weight differences don't offset that large a gap in raw material cost. Just like steel case .223 ammo is FAR cheaper than brass case .223 ammo.

It shouldn't be that difficult to understand here.

Ding ding ding, we have a winner here! I can't believe it got this far into the thread without this point being made. Try pricing 7.62x39 ammo in brass case, then get back to me on how much cheaper it is...

 

[Livefreeormass]

This is why,

Алты́нного во́ра ве́шают, а полти́нного че́ствуют.

“Little thieves are hanged, but great ones escape.
Literal: The thief who stole an altyn (3 kopecks) is hung, and the one who stole a poltinnik (50 kopecks) is praised.” ？？

 

[peteyb]

Ding ding ding, we have a winner here! I can't believe it got this far into the thread without this point being made. Try pricing 7.62x39 ammo in brass case, then get back to me on how much cheaper it is...

Pretty sure the OP is comparing the price of Wolf/Tula 7.62x39 and 5.56, ie both being steel case by the same manufacturer. At least that's how I read it