Why get a Maine Non-Res LTC?

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Maine prohibits the possession of any firearm in the "Capitol Area," which includes any state-controlled locations (whether owned, leased, or used by the state) within the city limits of Augusta, Maine. 16-219-041 Me. Code R. § 2(F).
 

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Maine prohibits the possession of any firearm in the "Capitol Area," which includes any state-controlled locations (whether owned, leased, or used by the state) within the city limits of Augusta, Maine. 16-219-041 Me. Code R. § 2(F).
Thanks.

Here's a link to 16-219-041 Me. Code R. § 2(F). Unfortunately it's an FTP link that I cannot get to from work.

Any reference yet for "the University"?
 
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Maine prohibits the possession of any firearm in the "Capitol Area," which includes any state-controlled locations (whether owned, leased, or used by the state) within the city limits of Augusta, Maine. 16-219-041 Me. Code R. § 2(F).


Thank you for the citation. I wil stand corrected on the issue of Capitol Grounds. After researching the citation you provided this is my understanding.

1. There is no "law" against CCW on capitol grounds.
2. There is a statute that gives the Commisioner of Public Safety the Authority to create "rules" regarding security in the Capitol Area.

"Title 25 §2904. Security at capitol area and other state-controlled locations
1. Commissioner of Public Safety. Except as provided in subsection 2, the Commissioner of Public Safety(CPS) is authorized and empowered to adopt rules, including a schedule of parking violation fees, subject to the approval of the Governor, governing the security regarding use and occupancy of all parks, grounds, buildings and appurtenances maintained by the State at the capitol area or other state-controlled locations in Augusta. "

http://www.mainelegislature.org/legis/statutes/25/title25sec2904.html

3. Under the authority of that statute, the CPS has set forth a rule [16-219-041 Me. Code R. § 2(F)] that states:

2F No person, except a police officer on duty, shall carry firearms, dangerous weapons, explosives, incendiary devices, or implements which by their nature are capable of being used to destroy or injure a person or property in the Capitol Area.
http://www.maine.gov/sos/cec/rules/16/219/219c041.doc

4. Under that rule, a person convicted of its violation is subject to a $50 fine.

"3.Penalties
Any person found guilty of violating any of these regulations shall, upon conviction, be punished as provided in Revised Statutes, Title 25, Section 2910."

http://www.maine.gov/sos/cec/rules/16/219/219c041.doc

Title 25 Section 2910 states: §2910. Fine
"Any person found guilty of violating any rule made pursuant to sections 2904 to 2907 shall, upon conviction, pay a fine of not less than $50 for each offense. "
http://www.mainelegislature.org/legis/statutes/25/title25sec2910.html

5. Since your original post stated that CCW in the Capitol Area was prohibited, you were indeed correct.

6. However, to further parse the line of law and for the sake of clarity, it is not a criminal offense to CCW in the Capitol Area. The violation and conviction of the rule cited above is a civil offense and not a criminal offense.

"Section 4. Civil violations
The language used in drafting a civil violation provision depends on the sanction that is to be imposed. The Office of the Revisor of Statutes uses the following convention: Fines of $1,000 or less are "forfeitures"; fines exceeding $1,000 are "penalties." In addition, "penalties" may be used when an entity other than the State is to collect the fine."

http://janus.state.me.us/legis/ros/manual/Webdman-21.htm


Now, if you could please provided a citation of the statute that prohibits CCW on and U Maine system property I would appreciate it.

PS.. this is not a legal opinion, but just the thoughts of a bored middle aged Maine gun owner.
 
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Show me where I am wrong please.

You were right about the Capitol Area, you are wrong about Maine U's and State Parks.

Refer to the Student Handbook Policy already mentioned above by JohnM for the proof that it is not against the law to CCW on U Maine property, it is only a violation of school policy. Also please refer to my previous post in which I cite the 2007 LD that would have given the U's the authority to outlaw CCW but failed.

For State Parks, please read and verify the following:

State Rules: 04 059 Chapter 51 Sections Summary, 1.1 and 1.12
http://www.maine.gov/sos/cec/rules/04/059/059c051.doc

"SUMMARY: These rules give the definition of "Public Lands" and explain the Bureau's policy governing public use on camping, fires, litter, disturbances, altering of property, abandoned property, storage of property, closed areas, vehicular use, firearms, preserves, and enforcement and penalty."

"1.1 Definitions
"Public Lands" shall include the Public Reserved Lands of the State and all other lands under the jurisdiction, and control of the former Bureau of Public Lands. "Bureau" shall mean the Bureau of Parks and Lands within the Department of Conservation."


State Parks fall under the "all other lands" part of the rule.

"1.12 Firearms
Except for persons holding a valid Maine concealed weapons permit, loaded firearms are not permitted in campsites, on marked hiking trails, or at boat launches and picnic sites, and should not be discharged within 300 feet of such areas."


Section 20b of section 04 059 Chapter 1 states:

"The possession and/or use of firearms or weapons is prohibited in all areas between May 1 and September 30, except where hunting is allowed during this period. Firearms or weapons may be transported across the Restricted Zone of the Allagash Wilderness Waterway, between May 1 and September 30, provided they are securely and completely enclosed in a cover, fastened in a case, or dismantled in at least two pieces in such a manner that they cannot be fired unless the separate pieces are joined together."

Chapter 1 Section 20 is under the heading of Hunting and Trapping. When these two rules are examined it is clear the Section 20 is refering to hunting firearms. That makes sense, if you cannot hunt in a specific area, then you should not have a loaded hunting firearm in that area.

Chapter 51 clearly states that CCW on all public lands is legal.

I think you need to amend and correct what you teach at your CCW class.
 
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"Macaluso, Melissa" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>


Dear Paul

Even with a concealed weapons permit, possession of a firearm or weapon
in parks from May 1 until September 30 is prohibited.


The discharge sections of the rule; 20. Hunting and trapping e. & f.;
apply continuously year round.

Please see below.

Rules for State Parks and Historic Sites
The following rules and regulations are established by the Bureau
pursuant to the provisions of the "Maine Revised Statutes Annotated,"
Title 12, Section 1803, subsection 6, and Section 1883.


1. The use of these areas shall be limited to the purposes for which
they are being preserved and to activities determined by the Bureau to
be compatible with the intended use of the facility. Activities which
endanger persons or property are prohibited. The removal, molesting,
injury or damage of anything natural, physical, prehistorical, or
historical within these areas is strictly prohibited except as outlined
in section 20 regarding hunting and trapping.

2. Feeding or touching wild animals found in the park is prohibited. For
health and safety reasons, visitors are required to put away food
securely and leave picnic areas and campsites clean.

3. Day-use areas will be open from 9:00 a.m. to sunset daily, unless
posted otherwise due to operational constraints.

4. Use of metal detectors at historic sites is prohibited. Metal
detectors are allowed in other areas only by written permit obtained at
the park.

5. Intoxicating beverages are not permitted. Disorderly conduct is
prohibited. This includes, but is not limited to, indecent acts,
intoxication or coarse language.

6. Open fires are allowed only in grills or fireplaces provided by the
Bureau. No fires are allowed on beaches. No fires shall be left
unattended.

7. No pets are allowed on beaches or in the Sebago Lake State Park
campground. Pets must be on a leash not exceeding four feet in length
and must not be left unattended. Pet owners must immediately clean up
any fecal deposits left by their pets. Pet owners may be assigned picnic
or campsites in a less congested area of the park.

8. Wheeled vehicles including bicycles shall be parked only in places
designated for that purpose, conform to posted traffic regulations, be
confined to roads and trails specifically designated for their use and
otherwise comply with all applicable State laws. Vehicles parked in
unauthorized areas may be towed at the owners expense.

9. The discharging of wastes, including soaps and detergents, shall be
prohibited except in a receptacle specifically designated for that
purpose.

10. All rubbish shall be placed in containers provided by the Bureau. No
rubbish shall be deposited in any type of toilet facility. At those
areas where the Bureau has a carry in/carry out policy, users shall be
responsible for carrying out all their refuse.

11. Soliciting is prohibited.

12. Campsite vacancies will be filled either by the State Park Campsite
Reservation System or on a first come, first served basis. All campers
must register in person when arriving at a State park campground.

13. The camping day is from 1:00 p.m. until 11:00 a.m. Camping shall be
limited to a cumulative total of fourteen (14) nights from the last
Saturday in June through the last Saturday in August.

14. Campsite occupancy will be limited to one camping party that shall
be defined as: a) a family consisting of father, mother and any number
of their unmarried children; b) a maximum of six (6) individuals,
including children; c) one (1) R.V., trailer, camper van, or slide-in
camper allowed per campsite; d) not more than two motor vehicles,
including the visitor's vehicle.

15. Campsite visitors will be allowed as follows: a) After 9:00 a.m. by
paying the day use fee and leaving before 8:00 p.m. Limit one visiting
park campsite; the total number of people will not exceed ten, and the
limit at Sebago Lake State Park be eight.

16. Quiet in camping areas is required between the hours of 10:00 p.m.
and 7:00 a.m.

17. Trails will be opened and closed by the Bureau as warranted by
environmental and safety conditions.

18. The use of chain saws and power equipment is prohibited. Generators
may be used between the hours of 9:00 a.m. and 7 p.m. as long as they do
not bother other visitors.

19. The use of floating devices, face masks or snorkels is prohibited at
surf beaches. Scuba diving may be allowed by permit obtained at the
park.

20. Hunting and trapping:

a. All hunting and trapping shall take place in accordance with the laws
of the State of Maine, the laws and rules of the Maine Department of
Inland Fisheries and Wildlife, and local ordinances.

b. The possession and/or use of firearms or weapons is prohibited in all
areas between May 1 and September 30, except where hunting is allowed
during this period. Firearms or weapons may be transported across the
Restricted Zone of the Allagash Wilderness Waterway, between May 1 and
September 30, provided they are securely and completely enclosed in a
cover, fastened in a case, or dismantled in at least two pieces in such
a manner that they cannot be fired unless the separate pieces are joined
together.

c. Hunting is not permitted at any time at State Historic Sites or
Memorials, or at any of the properties listed below: Andrews Beach State
Park; that portion of Bradbury Mountain State Park west of State Route
9; Cobscook Bay State Park: Crescent Beach and Kettle Cove State Parks;
Damariscotta Lake State Park; Ferry Beach State Park; Holbrook Island
Sanctuary State Park; Nickerson Lake State Park; Owls Head Light State
Park; that portion of Quoddy Head State Park within 1,000 feet of the
lighthouse; Reid State Park; Sebago Lake State Park; Shackford Head
State Park; Two Lights State Park; and Wolfe's Neck Woods State Park.

d. Hunting is not permitted between May 1 and September 30 at any of the
properties listed below: Restricted Zone of the Allagash Wilderness
Waterway; Aroostook State Park; Birch Point Beach State Park; Bradbury
Mountain State Park east of Route 9; Camden Hills State Park; Grafton
Notch State Park; Mt. Kineo State Park; Lake St. George State Park;
Lamoine State Park; Lily Bay State Park; Moose Point State Park; Mount
Blue State Park; Moxie Falls State Park; Peacock Beach State Park;
Peaks-Kenny State Park; Popham Beach State Park; Quoddy Head State Park,
except as provided in paragraph C. immediately above; Range Pond State
Park; Rangeley Lake State Park, except that portion posted as part of
the Rangeley Lake Game Sanctuary; Roque Bluffs State Park; Swan Lake
State Park; Warren Island State Park.

e. The discharging of any weapon is prohibited from or within 300 feet
of any picnic area, camping area or campsite, parking area, building,
shelter, boat launch site, posted trail or other developed area.

f. Trails which are closed to hunting will be posted to that effect at
access points. On trails posted as closed to hunting, loaded weapons are
not permitted on the tread way and weapons may not be discharged within
300 feet of the trail.

g. Work areas and areas with significant public use may be temporarily
posted as closed to hunting by park management in the interest of public
safety.

h. Baiting of wildlife for the purpose of hunting is prohibited

i. Trapping may take place only in accordance with the laws of the
State of Maine, the laws and rules of the Maine Department of Inland
Fisheries and Wildlife and local ordinances. Trapping in state parks or
historic sites in organized townships requires the written permission of
the Bureau.

j. Bureau employees or their representatives in the official conduct
of their duties and in accordance with bureau policy with prior approval
from the bureau are exempt from the above rules.

In addition to any criminal and civil sanctions imposed by law, the
Bureau may evict any person violating these rules or other State laws or
regulations.

Penalties: Violation of any of these rules is a Class -E crime. October
1999
 
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Dear Paul,

Your post really does not help at all.

#1 You quote someone as a person of authority and yet give no information as to who Ms. Macaluso is and what her position is with the state of Maine. Yes, she has a maine.gov email address, but that does not really offer any support as to her authority to discuss state park rules. Since you did not offer any info as to why we should consider her opinion to be meaningful, I searched the web for her name and found this.

http://www.elrc.org/events/travel0908.pdf

"Melissa Macaluso of the Bureau of Parks and Lands office will be handling conference registrations. You may contact Melissa at 207-287-4960, or by email at [email protected]."

Being someone who takes conference registrations for the Bureua does not sound very impressive for our purposes. I just did a brief search and that is what I found. It is your post so you should really support your argument. If her job with the state is important to your argument please provide the info.

#2 You have not addressed the previous post in which a park rule is cited that specifically states that people with permits can CCW legally on state land, including state parks. Please try and refute that other than just by an email from a reservation clerk (to the best of my knowledge) who cites hunting regulations that have already been mentioned during this discussion.

#3 According to the rules of debate, when a person cannot refute a well supported argument, it is polite and customary to concede the point. I was wrong about the state capitol prohibition (although I had to provide the support for your argument) and I conceded the point. If you cannot refute the well supported arguments against your assertion that CCW in state parks and State U's is illegal, then you should be a gentlemen and concede the point.
 
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Please see below.

Rules for State Parks and Historic Sites
The following rules and regulations are established by the Bureau
pursuant to the provisions of the "Maine Revised Statutes Annotated,"
Title 12, Section 1803, subsection 6, and Section 1883.

I put this in bold for you earlier.
 
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Please see below.

Rules for State Parks and Historic Sites
The following rules and regulations are established by the Bureau
pursuant to the provisions of the "Maine Revised Statutes Annotated,"
Title 12, Section 1803, subsection 6, and Section 1883.

I put this in bold for you earlier.

Your support is meaningless. The statutes you cite above only give authority to the Bureau to set rules. The rules you listed only restrict the carrying of loaded firearms while hunting in certain sections of state parks. It does not in any way restrict permit holders from CCWing in state parks.

I have posted the below once already and have asked you twice to address it. You have ignored these requests. The rules clearly state it is legal for permit holders to CCW in state parks. I cannot make it any clearer. I can only come to the conclusion that you do not know what you are talking about and any further discussion with you would be a waste of my time.

State Rules: 04 059 Chapter 51 Section 1.12
http://www.maine.gov/sos/cec/rules/04/059/059c051.doc

"1.12 Firearms
Except for persons holding a valid Maine concealed weapons permit, loaded firearms are not permitted in campsites, on marked hiking trails, or at boat launches and picnic sites, and should not be discharged within 300 feet of such areas."
 
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b. The possession and/or use of firearms or weapons is prohibited in all
areas between May 1 and September 30, except where hunting is allowed
during this period.
Four attorneys and the Director Bureau of Parks and Lands Tom Morrison concure with my understanding. The possession and/or use of firearms or weapons is prohibited language is clear. Tom's number is 287-4717.

I hope their "meaningless" interpretation satisfies your curiosity. I agree a statute should be enacted howevah the legislature authorized the bureau to make rules. No distinction between hunting and concealed carry exists. I have been working with 2 legislators to submit legislation next session.

Best~
Paul
 
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