Why buy a youth rifle over an AR?

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Deleted member 67409

I was in Bass Pro in Hooksett today. A dad and his two sons are standing right in front of the red dots, which I wanted to look at. The dad's going through every possible potential youth hunting rifle under $750 and rejecting them all. The kids are like 11, 12 and one of them is getting into hunting and shoots a .410.

Why would someone buy a youth rifle these days instead of an AR with a collapsible stock and a 5-round mag? A kid is going to grow from 5', 100lbs at 12, 13 to perhaps over 6' tall and 180+ pounds. Even a small kid can grow into being like 5'7, 5'8, 150+. Why buy a youth rifle instead of a rifle where, when the kid grows, you can just pull the stock out more?

Even caliber doesn't matter. Deer can be harvested ethically with .223, but if someone isn't comfortable with .223, there's the 6.8s, .260 Remington, .300 Blackout, 7.62x39, etc. A kid could manage the recoil of .223 or x39 much easier than .270 or .30-06.

Edit: I can get being on a budget and the only rifle dad can afford is a NEF Handi-Rifle. But when you're getting into guns in the $350-750 range...

Thoughts?
 
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I would not want just any kid in the woods hunting with an AR. Using a bolt gun encourages better hunting practices and establishes a good shooting technique. If the kids are just getting into hunting it may be wise to limit their firepower until they prove themselves.
Just my opinion from a blued and oiled walnut kind of a guy. I never liked the AR and I had one on loan to me for a couple of years. As I say this, I am gearing up for my first AR build. Got an 80%lower, jig, upper. Just a few more parts and a free weekend.
 
I would not want just any kid in the woods hunting with an AR. Using a bolt gun encourages better hunting practices and establishes a good shooting technique. If the kids are just getting into hunting it may be wise to limit their firepower until they prove themselves.
Just my opinion from a blued and oiled walnut kind of a guy. I never liked the AR and I had one on loan to me for a couple of years. As I say this, I am gearing up for my first AR build. Got an 80%lower, jig, upper. Just a few more parts and a free weekend.

I was thinking about the marksmanship idea but a kid usually learns on a semi-auto .22 like a 10/22 or a Model 60. And again, if you're trying to control the kid's available firepower, there's the Handi-Rifle. Or say a slug gun.
 
I’m not a hunter, but when I start teaching my kids to shoot I’ll probably bypass the .22 LR stage, certainly for pistols.

No real reason, except that I’ve never really used the caliber myself other than an introductory pistol course in college. I didn’t feel I gained much from it.
 
I’m not a hunter, but when I start teaching my kids to shoot I’ll probably bypass the .22 LR stage, certainly for pistols.

No real reason, except that I’ve never really used the caliber myself other than an introductory pistol course in college. I didn’t feel I gained much from it.

.22 is most effective for kids rather than adults. Its basically what a kid between ages 6-12 should be using until they're ready for centerfire. Far less recoil + noise.
 
My son's first rifle was a CZ .22lr bolt action youth rifle. He loves that gun and if he had to choose between that and the AR22... he'd pick that bolt action just about every time.
 
Length of pull may be an issue too. Even though the kids are likely to grow taller as they age, there may not be anything that fits them now, but I didn’t see them and am only speculating on kids that age.
 
Depends on the kid.

Both of mine did the Club Junior Rifle for a couple of years, but never really got into it.

My younger wanted to shoot Trap, so, when he was 8 or so, he had a 20 ga. semi auto, with a cut down stock. Before he turned 10, he had glommed onto a full-size 12, and got his first 25/25. But, he was a big, strong kid for his age. I've had 13-14 year olds at the Trap field that could not handle a youth 20.

The older one shot more casually, but joined the Club's Gallery Pistol team at 15, and was out-shooting adults before the first year was out (myself included, but I'm not a great pistol shot).

It depends on the kid: not just their size and strength, but also their maturity. At 13 he was an NRA instructor.
Different kids have different abilities. It's not right to say, "I don't think that your kid should [insert activity here]," unless they know both the kid, and you, very well.
 
get a 20 ga youth sized gun & you can hunt a lot more than with an AR (or a 12 ga for a bigger kid) you can get light loads for practice
20 ga ammo costs half of 410 & he'll get more hits because he's sending more lead after the target.

Usually 410 is used by old guys who want more challenge & less shoulder pain ;)
 
Bolt action with iron sights. Teach the kids proper technique and to make shots count.

After they learn that, they can dump a bunch of $ into airsoft parts and look like internet warriors.

Or skip the AR and go straight to the AK. It is kid friendly.
 
Whatever man, let people buy what they want/think they need. It’s a free country.

I care not what others opinions on what I should or shouldn’t hunt with. My kids can both handle an AR safely. Letting them plink with a 22 saves daddy money!
my buddy’s 10 year old kid will be afield on Wednesday with a suppressed 300blackout SBR. They’re gonna have fun, AND piss off liberals!!
 
Started my 6 uear old daughter on a single shot 22lr Crickett. Bought from a fellow NESer who's child out grew it. Had her try the 10/22 several times and she was too small for it and didn't enjoy it. This year, at 11 years old now, she shot my BIL's M&P15-22, and she loved it. Did ok too. Haven't had a chance to see how she does with an AR.
 
I would not want just any kid in the woods hunting with an AR. Using a bolt gun encourages better hunting practices and establishes a good shooting technique. If the kids are just getting into hunting it may be wise to limit their firepower until they prove themselves.
Just my opinion from a blued and oiled walnut kind of a guy. I never liked the AR and I had one on loan to me for a couple of years. As I say this, I am gearing up for my first AR build. Got an 80%lower, jig, upper. Just a few more parts and a free weekend.

Fudd [rofl]
 
I started in my 30's with a Ruger 10/22 and Apple Seed training.
Glad I did take those baby steps.

I know we all have the right to any gun you want but you don't jump on a Ducati without training wheels or a kick bike as a child.
I think it's totally wrong and foolish to let a kid learn marksmanship basics on an AR.
Liberty is dangerous though but it beats the alternative.

Idea: get an 22 bolt carrier group for an AR. That would be acceptable.
 
I would not want just any kid in the woods hunting with an AR. Using a bolt gun encourages better hunting practices and establishes a good shooting technique. If the kids are just getting into hunting it may be wise to limit their firepower until they prove themselves.
Just my opinion from a blued and oiled walnut kind of a guy. I never liked the AR and I had one on loan to me for a couple of years. As I say this, I am gearing up for my first AR build. Got an 80%lower, jig, upper. Just a few more parts and a free weekend.

I would agree 100% with this above
 
Several thoughts. There are lots of ways to go. None right or wrong

Youth guns often have both a shorter stock and shorter barrel to balance. If you have multiple kids to hand them down through not a bad option.

You can put an adjustable stock on a bolt gun. Remington 700 with Boyds At1 stock a nice combo. Grows with the kid You can put combo together under $600

You can also easily turn an adjustable stock AR into a single shot. Just use a Bob block instead of a magazine. You can also turn it into a manually cycled rifle with an adjustable gas block that you turn down or off.

Assuming they have a .22 bolt rifle, I would do following for a young person

A Remington 700 hunting rifle in Boyd’s At1 stock with PTG bottom metal to use AICS mags in a light deer caliber. 243 or 6.5 Timney trigger

This gets them a light recoiling rifle for deer hunting and it can reach out for longer range work. With that stock set up you can swop out barreled action for any other short action caliber.
 
get a 20 ga youth sized gun & you can hunt a lot more than with an AR (or a 12 ga for a bigger kid) you can get light loads for practice
20 ga ammo costs half of 410 & he'll get more hits because he's sending more lead after the target.

Usually 410 is used by old guys who want more challenge & less shoulder pain ;)
Actually, if you hunt bunnies, a .410 makes more sense than bigger shotguns regardless of age. I used a 16 once and nearly cut the bunny in half. Not to mention that it blew the intestines all through the meat and the bunny couldn't be used for eating.
 
He's not a Fudd he's right. You don't need semi auto anything for hunting. You need practice and patience to take shots that count. Most of the game populations in America were decimated by single shot black powder firearms. Hunting is not target shooting hunting is not war. Kids don't have the discipline to use a semi until they have had a few seasons under their belt. When I went from a single shot to an 1187 duck hunting I fired all three rounds has fast as I could pull the trigger. However I agree that kids who are recoil sensitive would benefit greatly from an AR. I just don't see it being a great hunting firearm for youth unless to loaded one round at a time. On the target range yes shoot the AR all day kids.

When you start saying "you don't need," and "hunting is not war," you venture into Jim Zumbo Fudd'ery.

Jim Zumbo - Wikipedia

The point I'm trying to make here is that buying or building an AR, for a kid who's otherwise competent at using guns and doesn't just waste ammo because he's got X number of rounds, so damnit, he's going to shoot X number of rounds, gets rid of having to buy a youth rifle and then an adult rifle in, what, two years? If a kid is going to waste ammo because he can, I don't want him in the woods. Period. If the kid is going to burn through all five shots in a five round mag, he'll do it with an AR or a bolt action or a pump.
 
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Maybe they just don’t like ARs?
I never liked the M16s I was issued and have no desire to use an AR. I think I’ve passed this prejudice onto my daughter who wants a lever gun.

I don’t like bolt guns, either. For me, the gun should carry well in one hand and a slim lever, pump or single shot is my preference.
Kids imitate what they see.
 
A bolt gun seems to make the most sense, maybe a lever, however I agree that's high price for a kids hunting rifle but whatever. The one thing I cant imagine doing hunting with an ar15 is clambering a round. Its kind of loud isnt it? I dont even like the click of safeties on some rifles never mind letting go of the charging handle
 
Maybe they just don’t like ARs?
I never liked the M16s I was issued and have no desire to use an AR. I think I’ve passed this prejudice onto my daughter who wants a lever gun.

I don’t like bolt guns, either. For me, the gun should carry well in one hand and a slim lever, pump or single shot is my preference.
Kids imitate what they see.

Exactly. I’ll never again willingly fire or maintain an AR, for the same reason. Though I AM a fan of bolt guns.

Well, milsurp bolt guns anyway. I am slowly gravitating toward a .22 lever gun for fun and the kiddos, though. I dunno.
 
A bolt gun seems to make the most sense, maybe a lever, however I agree that's high price for a kids hunting rifle but whatever. The one thing I cant imagine doing hunting with an ar15 is clambering a round. Its kind of loud isnt it? I dont even like the click of safeties on some rifles never mind letting go of the charging handle

To quietly chamber a round into an AR, you ride the bolt down and then use the forward assist.
 
I like hunting with classic hunting rifles, and I bought my kids classic hunting rifles as well. We have plenty of AR's and the likes, but just prefer to hunt a little more "traditional" for lack of a better term. Nothing wrong with hunting with an AR at all, whatever you choose, practice and make an ethical shot.
 
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