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Why Are Berry's Bullets So Available?

SR1911, Berry's 230gr. RN, Hodgdon CFE Pistol at 5.8gr., 15 yards, both eyes open at a fairly rapid pace not really trying that hard. I have to fix the problem of shooting right of the bullseye but I know that's the shooter not the bullets or powder. I see some double and triple strikes but no keyholes and I can't remember ever seeing anything but clean holes. At some point I'll get my hands on some FMJ to compare.
 
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6Gears1Speed said:
Most other brands in popular calibers are out of stock but I can get pretty much any caliber Berry's any time at a good price.
Do people not like these bullets? I use them with no issues but I've only been reloading for a few months so I really wouldn't know if there is a performance problem with them. I have no test equipment.

Oops I just realized I should have put this in the Reloading forum...
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Berrys are not the most desriable, they're not terrible (I used thousands and thousands of them in .45 ACP with fine results) but like others have said here, the "compatibility matrix" for these bullets is not the best. You can't push them really hard (except possibly that new extra thick plating line they have out, which I've never seen anywhere). Most of the action shooters I know are either using "real FMJ/CMJs" or are using coated lead bullets of some sort to drive costs down even further.

Berrys are available because the demand on them isn't as stiff.

-Mike
 
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6Gears1Speed said:
SR1911, Berry's 230gr. RN, Hodgdon CFE Pistol at 5.8gr., 15 yards, both eyes open at a fairly rapid pace not really trying that hard. I have to fix the problem of shooting right of the bullseye but I know that's the shooter not the bullets or powder. I see some double and triple strikes but no keyholes and I can't remember ever seeing anything but clean holes. At some point I'll get my hands on some FMJ to compare.
Click to expand...

In .45 ACP I doubt you'll see huge differences at short ranges. On the other hand if we start talking about 9mm projectiles, launched at 9mm Major velocities, different ballgame. I always ended up buying berrys for .45 and real FMJ/CMJ bullets for 9mm whenever I could get my hands on them.

-Mike
 
7" groups at 15 yards is not even close to good. That could be you or given the feedback, the bullet. You asked a question, got your answer and now are defending your use. Try regular jacketed bullets. Hell, try some quality factory ammunition. If you get the same or similar results well keep shooting the plated. But let's also put THAT into perspective. Eddie Coyle, who has the teensiest bit more experience than you in reloading, will not buy plated bullets. He has experienced FAIL, notice the capital letters, and refuses to buy more.
 
I think my use is very relevant. At 15 yds. in a combat stance with two eyes open and a shot every one to two seconds I'm not ready to curse the ammo yet. If that were an attacker he wouldn't be complaining to me about the size of the group. I'm reading that they are inaccurate and keyhole etc... but haven't experienced that which is why I posted the target. Maybe because I don't run hot loads. I don't know. I'm not saying Eddie is wrong but either due to the way we shoot or how we load the ammo I'm not seeing what he is seeing. I'll definitely try some good factory ammo under the same conditions and see if there is a difference in the group and hole shapes/sizes.
 
6Gears1Speed said:
I think my use is very relevant. At 15 yds. in a combat stance with two eyes open and a shot every one to two seconds I'm not ready to curse the ammo yet. If that were an attacker he wouldn't be complaining to me about the size of the group. I'm reading that they are inaccurate and keyhole etc... but haven't experienced that which is why I posted the target. Maybe because I don't run hot loads. I don't know. I'm not saying Eddie is wrong but either due to the way we shoot or how we load the ammo I'm not seeing what he is seeing. I'll definitely try some good factory ammo under the same conditions and see if there is a difference in the group and hole shapes/sizes.
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In some guns, you seem to be missing that point. Plus a shot every 1 or 2 seconds is slow fire, not exactly defensive fire
 
I'm practicing it will get better and faster over time. I'm just pointing out that I'm not closing an eye and making sure everything is just right before I fire. I'll do that A/B too when I get some factory ammo.

Off subject a bit, when I'm shooting in this setting I fire a shot then lower the muzzle just a bit (like to the bottom of the target) then raise it up until I see the picture then fire. No waiting. No thinking. My goal is to continue to do this faster and faster. Obviously I need lots more practice. Or better bullets [laugh]. I haven't had any instruction which I hope to do at some point.
 
Because it feels more natural to me to start low and raise it up to the picture than to start high (after a shot) and lower it to the picture. I stare at the bullseye as I raise the muzzle and when I see the front sight lined up I fire with no hesitation. If I do that starting from a raised muzzle position I'm blocking the bullseye and it doesn't feel right. Again, I only lower the muzzle enough to be below the bullseye which in the case of a 7" target is somewhere around the bottom of the target or maybe a little higher. I need instruction but for now I'm just doing what feels natural.
 
Definitely developing bad habits. Take a good training course. You should crush grip the gun with your support hand and see the sights settle back on the target after every shot.
 
inerlogic said:
and they'll sell to you in MA, but won't ship to you in MA...... jackoffs.......
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Better than some of the others. (that go MA COOTIES NO YOU CANNOT BUY NOTHING!!!) Berrys also has various distribution channels, so there's more than one way to get their bullets.

-Mike
 
Steve Marshall said:
7" groups at 15 yards is not even close to good.
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Good as defined by what? Everything is relative. I've taken people shooting for the first time and they couldn't hit the paper at 15 feet. My first day I was hitting paper consistently at 50 feet. I've been shooting for a little over a year, reloading for a few months and have owned a 1911 for a few months (I have less than 1000 rounds through my 1911). Given those parameters and the fact that I really haven't been practicing to be a precision shooter I think the group on the target I posted is pretty damned good for 15 yards at 1-2 second intervals. I won't win any competitions but I have a good base to improve on. Now, if I post the same group in two or three years showing no improvement then I'd say it sucks. I personally gauge how good I am at something by determining if I have improved or not over some period of time. If I don't get better then I usually quit and move on to something else.

With regard to Berry's bullets, I have another 1000 9mm Berry's coming and will be paying attention to some of the things that have been mentioned. I'll try bench resting a few mags full to get a better idea of what the bullets are really doing. I did a little of that when I was comparing loads for Hodgdon CFE powder and higher velocities were definitely more accurate. How much of that was the bullet and how much was the powder I don't know. Maybe in two or three years I will know.
 
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I use the Thick Plated 9mm bullets from Berry's, have gone through about 6k of them. They don't seem to have any issues out of the Glocks, M&Ps, and XDM I've used. I don't load them super hot or anything. The accuracy seems pretty good, but I don't usually go past 50 feet and I shoot at plates. When I did check for accuracy, I could do touching holes at about 7 yards while resting off bench, or maybe closer than that (no idea how far stands are from me at that range).

I have never used non-thick plated ones, so not sure if they are different.
 
I was gonna add 100 Hornandy 115 gr. 9mm FMJ-RN to my order so I could compare but it's too late. Next time. Or maybe I can find a few locally.
 
TBalls said:
Sorry to go off topic, but does anyone have any experience with Xtreme Bullets?
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I have a friend that is a commercial loader, he said he ran into a lot of problems with Xtreme bullets and will not use them again. I have read that people had similar luck/problems with them as they do with Berrys.
 
TBalls said:
Sorry to go off topic, but does anyone have any experience with Xtreme Bullets?
Click to expand...

I've got about 7k of them waiting to be reloaded at home. We did a big group buy at my club last year or the year before and everyone at my club has had zero complaints about them. Their plating seems to be thicker than Berry's and their load data on their website says you can run them up to 1500 fps which is pretty good. I'll be reloading some this weekend for 9mm and maybe 38 spl if I have some time. So hopefully they'll work okay for me too.
 
I've used Xtreme and been happy with them. They seemed very consistent when I bought them about a year ago. Still going thru the box.
 
Other than slow shipping, Xtremes are the way to go for plated. They are cheaper than Berrry's but as good or better quality. I like the 100 & 185 GR HBRNs from Berrys, but that's all I get from them anymore.

As far as the complaints about accuracy, most of them seem to come from folks who over crimp. I've shot plated bullets out of a lot of different handguns and never had an issue. I push the above 100 GR HBRNs to 1300 FPS out of a ported compensated gun routinely with no tumbling or separation.

All of that aside, plated are a compromise between jacketed and cast lead. Nowadays the HiTek coated bullets offer what I believe is a superior compromise in every way.
 
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http://humanevents.com/2010/06/08/barrels-and-bullets-conventional-versus-polygonal-rifling/

just left Riley's...read this thread this morning and wanted to find out about Berry's / accuracy. Guy at the reloading counter was awesome, showed me a FMJ bullet and a Berry plated bullet, both fired from a G23. the FMJ bullet had visible indentations where the rifling caught the copper jacket. The plated bullet had more of a 'spin' affect on it, it performed similar to a lead bullet fired from Polygonal barrel. He then showed me targets with the same bullets, fired from the same G23 at 7 yds. the difference was remarkable; 3" spread vs 6"
His suggestion, long and short of it, if you're going to be buying Berry's bullets for the cheaper price, get a Lone Wolf barrel with conventional rifling as a drop in to your Glock/HK, etc. The accuracy will improve dramatically over the OEM barrel and the reload cost will be lower.
 
Palladin said:
http://humanevents.com/2010/06/08/barrels-and-bullets-conventional-versus-polygonal-rifling/

just left Riley's...read this thread this morning and wanted to find out about Berry's / accuracy. Guy at the reloading counter was awesome, showed me a FMJ bullet and a Berry plated bullet, both fired from a G23. the FMJ bullet had visible indentations where the rifling caught the copper jacket. The plated bullet had more of a 'spin' affect on it, it performed similar to a lead bullet fired from Polygonal barrel. He then showed me targets with the same bullets, fired from the same G23 at 7 yds. the difference was remarkable; 3" spread vs 6"
His suggestion, long and short of it, if you're going to be buying Berry's bullets for the cheaper price, get a Lone Wolf barrel with conventional rifling as a drop in to your Glock/HK, etc. The accuracy will improve dramatically over the OEM barrel and the reload cost will be lower.
Click to expand...

Interesting. Did you happen to hit up SO? I saw on Facebook they got a powder shipment in. Curious if they got some pistol powders.
 
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I sort of have to call BS on this. I shoot Berry's TP 124gr out of my G17, thousands and thousands of rounds. I recently took part in a large USPSA shoot with 75+ people, most of them running high end 1911s in 9mm with optics and compensators, full on speed-rigs. I ran my G17 with an RMR, stock barrel and my own rounds. I came in 3rd place. My speed was not the best, but I picked up a ton of bonuses based on accuracy (hitting A in target almost all the time). I hit small plates no problem.

I have about 7k rounds of the Berrys through this barrel, and I can say there is NO accuracy issue. None. Zero. Now, I am not "pro Berrys", in that I think the bullets have a lot of variation in terms of sizing, which is annoying and messes up my reloading due to OAL, but that aside, the bullets perform accurately.

As an engineer, I also would have to say that if you get TP (thick plate) there really isn't much difference between that at actual jacketed, and the idea that this will somehow be inaccurate out of a polygonal barrel is somewhat hilarious. Why would it be? Polygonal barrels can shoot lead without a problem, I have friends who do it all the time. You just have more lead build up and have to clean more carefully. Accuracy is not affected.

Once again, you saw *secondhand* targets showing you A vs B. I'm saying I shoot these bullets all the time by the boatload and they are totally accurate. I also shoot them out of an M&P CORE and XDM. They get excellent groups there (I shoot off a rest to make sure, when checking my new loads). And when I'm shooting them in local competitions they perform and hit what I expect, even when you factor in the error that my eyes, hands, fingers are adding.

Palladin said:
http://humanevents.com/2010/06/08/barrels-and-bullets-conventional-versus-polygonal-rifling/

just left Riley's...read this thread this morning and wanted to find out about Berry's / accuracy. Guy at the reloading counter was awesome, showed me a FMJ bullet and a Berry plated bullet, both fired from a G23. the FMJ bullet had visible indentations where the rifling caught the copper jacket. The plated bullet had more of a 'spin' affect on it, it performed similar to a lead bullet fired from Polygonal barrel. He then showed me targets with the same bullets, fired from the same G23 at 7 yds. the difference was remarkable; 3" spread vs 6"
His suggestion, long and short of it, if you're going to be buying Berry's bullets for the cheaper price, get a Lone Wolf barrel with conventional rifling as a drop in to your Glock/HK, etc. The accuracy will improve dramatically over the OEM barrel and the reload cost will be lower.
Click to expand...
 
Have to call abit of BS on that article as well. Some of the first reloads I made for my G34 were Berry's 124g thick plate. They grouped very nice when I was testing them at 20 yards. Additionally, cast bullets can be shot through polygonal rifled barrels without having to clean them often if they are cast to the appropriate hardness.
 
Palladin said:
just left Riley's...read this thread this morning and wanted to find out about Berry's / accuracy. Guy at the reloading counter was awesome, showed me a FMJ bullet and a Berry plated bullet, both fired from a G23. the FMJ bullet had visible indentations where the rifling caught the copper jacket. The plated bullet had more of a 'spin' affect on it, it performed similar to a lead bullet fired from Polygonal barrel. He then showed me targets with the same bullets, fired from the same G23 at 7 yds. the difference was remarkable; 3" spread vs 6"
Click to expand...

I wonder if the shooter loaded the plated bullet with the same charge as the FMJ or with a charge appropriate for a plated bullet. They aren't interchangeable.
 
dvajda said:
I sort of have to call BS on this. I shoot Berry's TP 124gr out of my G17, thousands and thousands of rounds. I recently took part in a large USPSA shoot with 75+ people, most of them running high end 1911s in 9mm with optics and compensators, full on speed-rigs. I ran my G17 with an RMR, stock barrel and my own rounds. I came in 3rd place. .
Click to expand...

What match was that?
 

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