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Why all the hate for .40s&w?

9mm 147 gr CorBons make about 1160 fps out of my S&W 5906. Thit is getting very close to .357 magnum ballistics and most likely the equal of anything that the .40 can do.
 
Gammon said:
9mm 147 gr CorBons make about 1160 fps out of my S&W 5906. Thit is getting very close to .357 magnum ballistics and most likely the equal of anything that the .40 can do.
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Still got ways to go to equal the mighty .357 Magnum. Remington's 158 grain SJHP gets up to 1220 - 1240 out of my Model 65.

It's amazing that in 74 years no one has come yet close to equaling, let alone surpassing that incredible cartridge. D.B Wesson and Phil Sharpe definitely had their shit together.
 
Jose said:
Still got ways to go to equal the mighty .357 Magnum. Remington's 158 grain SJHP gets up to 1220 - 1240 out of my Model 65.

It's amazing that in 74 years no one has come yet close to equaling, let alone surpassing that incredible cartridge. D.B Wesson and Phil Sharpe definitely had their shit together.
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+2 on all counts.

Like you said, the Sig round can be boosted just like the 9x19. And there ARE some hot .357Sig rounds out there. Doubletap has some pretty impressive numbers for their .357Sig rounds:

125gr at 1450fps from 4"bbl
147gr at 1250fps from 4"bbl

'Course a Winchester 140gr Silvertip does about 1900fps out of my Marlin. [smile]
 
Gammon said:
9mm 147 gr CorBons make about 1160 fps out of my S&W 5906. Thit is getting very close to .357 magnum ballistics and most likely the equal of anything that the .40 can do.
Click to expand...

It's too bad you can't hotrod a .357 Magnum to make it more powerful than a 9mm.
 
Jose said:
Still got ways to go to equal the mighty .357 Magnum. Remington's 158 grain SJHP gets up to 1220 - 1240 out of my Model 65.

It's amazing that in 74 years no one has come yet close to equaling, let alone surpassing that incredible cartridge. D.B Wesson and Phil Sharpe definitely had their shit together.
Click to expand...

They may be closer than you think. I chrono'd some 155 gr Federals out of a four inch S&W 686 and got 1200 fps. The CorBons compare favorably when you realize that the semi auto actually has a three inch barrel. I know that the 9mm is no 357, but it does compare favorably to the .40.
 
I ride with a fotay:
A fotay of Colt that is
240px-Colt45.JPG

[wink][smile]

But really, do you want to be shot with any of these rounds?
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Me neither.
 

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ochmude said:
According to some of the residents at the section 8 housing complex I work security for, the "foh-tay" and the "nine" are the same thing, and are almost exclusively fired from a "glock, all chromed out". They're interesting people to chat with, lol.
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Just so you know.... a "fo fif" is not a round, but a pistol..they are referring to a 1911... Don't believe me? Show one of em a picture of a 1911 and ask "What kinda gat dis be?" and you'll see "Dat's a fo fif"
 
EddieCoyle said:
This is a repost, but here goes:

I dislike the .40 on principle, and also because of personal experience not related to the performance of the cartridge.

On Principle
The .40 is symbolic of the pussification of America. You see... in the past, someone at a firearms company took a look at a cartridge like the .38 S&W and said, "Hey... If we made this thing longer, we could get more powder into it and make it more powerful." Everybody within earshot said, "Let's do it!", and the .38 Special was born.

Will perhaps date myself as an "old fogey", or a student of the "old school", but I just personally believe in the .45 ACP. In whatever firearm, it will do the job...bullseye target, steel plate, bowling pins...or self defense. Of course the round depends on the venue.

Yup, guess I'm prejudiced. [wink]
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The .40 is about the best self defense cartridge available....considerably better performance that the 9mm, and quicker follow-up shots than a .45 with almost the same performance.
The 10mm needs a much bigger/heavier pistol to handle it, as vintage designs chambered for it start breaking apart.
You may have needed a .45 w/ lead bullets, but w/ modern JHP's it's unneeded.

BTW, Elmer Keith did not (I repeat not) want a full magnum .44, he was looking for more of a +P .44 but S&W made a full magnum instead....therefore the downloaded .44 magnums for defense.
 
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BillB said:
The .40 is about the best self defense cartridge available....considerably better performance that the 9mm.
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According to modern wound ballistics research (Dr. Gary K Roberts et. al.) that is simply not so.

There is hardly a measurable difference in actual fight stopping performance between non-magnum handgun calibers.

I will happily take an extra three to five rounds in the magazine with a 9 x 19 over the extra .045" diameter and the extra 56 grains (.128 ounces) of projectile weight that the typical .40 S&W offers.
 
BillB said:
The 10mm needs a much bigger/heavier pistol to handle it, as vintage designs chambered for it start breaking apart.
Click to expand...

I haven't had any problems shooting Doubletapp's stuff with my Glock, and it's very light. Of course, if the gun is designed badly and built badly, it doesn't matter how big or heavy it is.
 
.45 or nothing. I refuse to own anything in 40 because there's no reason to..it's just a compromise between the 9 and 45 and loses with both carry count and stopping power.

BillB said:
The .40 is about the best self defense cartridge available....considerably better performance that the 9mm, and quicker follow-up shots than a .45 with almost the same performance.
The 10mm needs a much bigger/heavier pistol to handle it, as vintage designs chambered for it start breaking apart.
You may have needed a .45 w/ lead bullets, but w/ modern JHP's it's unneeded.

BTW, Elmer Keith did not (I repeat not) want a full magnum .44, he was looking for more of a +P .44 but S&W made a full magnum instead....therefore the downloaded .44 magnums for defense.
Click to expand...
 
I own a .40 for CCW. M&P 40c - It's the only one that doesn't come with a neutered mag. If I can only have 10, I'll take the bigger ones.
 
According to this article(written in 2003) there are very few handgun cartridges suitable for self defense and nothing less than a .40 has the one shot stopping power that they deem necessary.
Take a look.....
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/849728/posts


THE STOPPING POWER OF DIFFERENT HANDGUN CARTRIDGES
2/22/2003

Posted on Saturday, February 22, 2003 11:34:22 PM by 2nd_Amendment_Defender

General Julian Hatcher, a noted forensic pathologist, in the early 1900’s developed a good formula to determine the theoretical stopping power of a firearm cartridge. His formula has withstood the test of time and validation from other studies and data related to stopping power.


You want a handgun cartridge that has a Hatcher value of over 50 for the most effective stopping power. Values over 55 have diminishing returns in that you don’t gain any significant increase in stopping power for the extra recoil and control you must cope with. Handgun cartridges that don’t make a value of at least 50, should not considered for self-defense. If the rating of your handgun cartridge is under 30, it only has about a 30% chance of producing a one shot stop. Hatcher Ratings of 30 to 49 raise a one shot stop to approximately a 50% chance. Ratings of 50 or higher produce a one shot stop about 90% of the time.


Handgun Cartridge Type ..................... Hatcher Rating

.45 ACP full metal jacket 230 grain .......... 49.1

.45 ACP jacketed hollow point 230 grain ...... 60.7

.44 Magnum full metal jacket 240 grain ....... 92.3

*.44 Magnum lead wad cutter 240 grain ......... 136.8

.44 Special full metal jacket 240 grain ...... 51.6

*.44 Special lead wad cutter 240 grain ............. 76.5

.41 Magnum full metal jacket 230 grain ............. 54

*.41 Magnum lead wad cutter 230 grain .............. 80

10 millimeter full metal jacket 180 grain .......... 50.3

10 millimeter jacketed hollow point 180 grain ..62.1

.40 S&W full metal jacket flat nose 180 grain ...... 53.4

.40 S&W jacketed hollow point 180 grain ....... 59.4

.38 Special full metal jacket 158 grain ...... 26.7

*.38 Special lead wad cutter 158 grain ............. 39.7

**.357 Magnum full metal jacket 158 grain ..... 32.7

**.357 Magnum lead wad cutter 158 grain ............ 48.5

.357 SIG full metal jacket 147 grain ................ 36.6

.357 SIG jacketed hollow point 147 grain ..... 45.2

9 millimeter full metal jacket 147 grain ............ 32.3

9 millimeter jacketed hollow point 147 grain ... 39.9

.380 Auto jacketed hollow point 95 grain ..... 18.3

.32 Auto jacketed hollow point 71 grain ...... 11.1

.25 Auto jacketed hollow point 50 grain ...... 3.7

.22 Long Rifle jacketed hollow point 40 grain ... 4.2


* Jacketed hollow points will have the same rating as wad cutter bullets if the bullet hollow tip is greater than 1/2 of the caliber of the bullet.


* .357 Magnum ratings are taken from a firearm with a 3 inch barrel. Longer barrels will raise the rating of the round.
 
Ballistics tech has changed a lot since the early 1900s; but most of all, a "good-seeming rule of thumb" is weak second to lab testing and a poor, distant cousin to results on the street.
 

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