Who's that guy on your squad?

nstassel

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Just keep assessing PEs and FTDRs. He'll quit IDPA and go back to Durkastan.

Me: Looking through scores to see if I can figure out who it is.
 

BrianWilson

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I enjoy shooting IDPA and a little USPSA, but here's the thing I don't understand... conceal carry 24/7 anywhere and everywhere... except on the gun range!
Keeping gun sports safe by unloading everyone!
While I agree with the sentiment, I do have to admit I've seen some pretty experienced shooters do some pretty stupid things in the heat of the moment.
 

BrianWilson

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The other question I want to know.... did the guy have a fishing vest on? and if so, how many washers were in the pockets?
Washers? Puhleeeeez. One runs a straightened wire coat-hanger up the zipper hem strong side. Dropping the "barney" mag in the strong side pocket adds the tactical weight necessary to keep from "getting killed on the street."
 
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You trust the national terror list?

Randy Weaver - who got paid $3M was a terrorist

David Koresh - suspected of making full auto AR's...he invited the ATF to come out for a visit, they did and you know how that turned out

Ross Ulbricht - will die in prison for running a website. The .gov had (now convicted) agents with admin access to servers who were stealing bitcoin....info not allowed at his trial. The seizure of his server was an illegal search and the FBI lied about how they found it...should have been thrown out.

Ted Kaczynski - The warrant for his cabin was very sketchy at best. No motion to suppress hearing was allowed. Sure they got the guy but at what cost?

Hillary's server, Russia investigation, MLK, JFK, the list of abuse is endless.

I hear if you throw a person in a lake and they swim it means they are into witchcraft and should be executed....
wasnt Richard Jewell from down that way? They treated him fairly tho right?
 

headednorth

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I enjoy shooting IDPA and a little USPSA, but here's the thing I don't understand... conceal carry 24/7 anywhere and everywhere... except on the gun range!
Keeping gun sports safe by unloading everyone!
Anyone pocket carry while competing?
 

fencer

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I have a hard time believing the FBI would give up that kind of info to a person they were interviewing. They might ask a lot of questions about someone, but I can’t see them telling you why they were asking.
I can. If the person was current or former LEO. Or just to start shit. Guy goes on line talking about shooting cops, leo's etc. Go to his gun club, rile up a bunch of guys. He muzzle sweeps someone and three range officers light him up. 40 witnesses say he was acting strange.

If he’s on a ’natioal terror list’, he has his Ltc? How is that suitable?
Most places, suitable is not a thing.
 

mlaboss

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Anyone pocket carry while competing?
While I'm sure someone at some point has done this and gotten away with it, it should be pointed out that this is definitely against the rules in USPSA and Steel Challenge, and I'm 99% sure it's against the rules in IDPA.

If you wanna carry a loaded gun while competing, go find (or found) a sport that allows it.
 

tuna

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While I'm sure someone at some point has done this and gotten away with it, it should be pointed out that this is definitely against the rules in USPSA and Steel Challenge, and I'm 99% sure it's against the rules in IDPA.

If you wanna carry a loaded gun while competing, go find (or found) a sport that allows it.
But will you face jail time? Concealed is concealed. I carry when doing any sport, I’ll be darned if I’m going to disarm at a range.
 

fencer

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But will you face jail time? Concealed is concealed. I carry when doing any sport, I’ll be darned if I’m going to disarm at a range.
And this is why my PM9 will never be sold. It may only get shot once a year to make sure it works like it is supposed to, but will be clean, lubed and in working order. Best back up ever.
 
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I enjoy shooting IDPA and a little USPSA, but here's the thing I don't understand... conceal carry 24/7 anywhere and everywhere... except on the gun range!
Keeping gun sports safe by unloading everyone!
I've been thinking about this since yesterday and no one's mentioned two big elephants in the room that both fall under the category of "risk aversion."

First one is insurance and liability. A range has to have regular insurance to operate. Ranges also have insurance for events, like say big action shooting matches, separate from their regular insurance. I know Karl from InRange mentioned this when he had to set up the first Desert Brutality. Dealing with the insurance companies is a PITA to begin with. Are the insurance companies going to be excited to learn that every competitor can reserve the right to concealed carry during the match? Probably no. And from a planning perspective, shit happens. Its not unfeasible to think that someone could have a ND while pocket or ankle carrying during a match. There's some stupid people out there that pocket carry sans pocket holster.

Second thing is that matches have to usually get approved by a club board of directors, at least that's how things work here in New England. The board can sometimes be a bunch of Fudds who either don't like or understand action shooting. What's an easier sell to a bunch of Fudds without carry permits (in states other than Mass where carrying isn't associated with ownership) or who have carry permits (Mass) but don't carry every day - a match where everyone has the right to carry or one where everyone isn't carrying? Even assuming the board isn't Fuddy, the board is going to be rather cautious as to what can happen on club facilities because their job is to make sure everything happens safely and in the best interest of the club.

Both situations involve mitigation of risk and risk averse third parties. If someone's trying to sell matches to a risk averse party, its easy to point to the rulesbook and say "nope, USPSA doesn't allow concealed carry during matches." And don't think that USPSA/IDPA doesn't want to cover their own asses from potential liability and insurance issues.

I guess the lesson of the day is that "concealed means concealed."

This all sounds like a great new IDPA stage.

'You are standing behind competitor A standing at P1. He goes apeshit. Neutralize him using all available cover. Limited Vickers scoring.
"Anyone have any questions?"
"Yeah, do nutshots count as neutralizing?"
"Its not an A-zone hit, so just put in one shot to each nut."
 

allen-1

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IDPA rule says:
The question of Hot and Cold ranges at the local club level is subject to individual club policy. This issue is the sole
responsibility of local clubs and is beyond IDPA’s control. Matches sanctioned by IDPA are required to operate under the
Cold range rule, but may use Hot Bays if desired.


So - tier one matches can be run with a hot range. Every IDPA match I've ever shot at has been run on a cold range.

USPSA:
5.2.1 Carry and Storage – Except when within the boundaries of a safety area, or when under the supervision and direct command of a Range Officer, competitors must carry their handguns unloaded in a gun case, gun bag or in a holster securely attached to a belt on their person (see Rule 10.5.1

Every USPSA match I've ever shot at has been run on a cold range.


When I go to the range to practice or compete, I always have a loaded firearm, my carry pistol. When I go to matches, I remove it before I enter the range. While I'm shooting a match, I don't need another pistol - I have one on my belt that I can load very quickly with the loaded magazines I have on my belt. I think that's probably faster than retrieving a concealed second pistol - although that's certainly up for debate.
 

Asaltweapon

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When I go to the range to practice or compete, I always have a loaded firearm, my carry pistol. When I go to matches, I remove it before I enter the range. While I'm shooting a match, I don't need another pistol - I have one on my belt that I can load very quickly with the loaded magazines I have on my belt. I think that's probably faster than retrieving a concealed second pistol - although that's certainly up for debate.
The end of this brings up a very good point.

The first is SOP.
 

mlaboss

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It may be against the rules but I would be perfectly fine with someone I know and trust carrying a hot backup in an ankle holster or something, during a match.
That's all well and good, but at that point it's not a USPSA match anymore (assuming you're the match director and setting the rules by which the game is played). USPSA matches have to be run following all of the USPSA rules, not just the ones any given match director likes.

But will you face jail time? Concealed is concealed. I carry when doing any sport, I’ll be darned if I’m going to disarm at a range.
Of course you won't face jail time. The penalty for violating the safety rules is being disqualified from the match. Like I said, I'm sure people do it and get away with it all the time. But, if you get caught you'll be DQed, and if you make a scene about it you'll be barred from attending future matches. Don't like the rules? Make your own game, with blackjack, hookers, and hot guns.
 

45collector

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- I have one on my belt that I can load very quickly with the loaded magazines I have on my belt. I think that's probably faster than retrieving a concealed second pistol - although that's certainly up for debate.
I do the same, and I am fairly certain I would be much faster getting my cold gun into action in such a situation, than trying to retrieve a gun from an ankle holster. I don't pocket carry, ever.
 
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I have a hard time believing the FBI would give up that kind of info to a person they were interviewing. They might ask a lot of questions about someone, but I can’t see them telling you why they were asking.
Yeah that turkey don't jive
 

johnnymac101

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Didn't mean to hi-jack OP's thread!

Good points made here about risk, rules and insurance! I guess "rules is rules" and "concealed means concealed" both apply!
I'm just looking at the great contradiction... Pro gun side wants to have the right to carry everywhere- undo gun free zones! BUT, get a group of shooters together and the first thing you hear is "this is a cold range!" and "Unload and show clear!"

I guess the lesson of the day is that "concealed means concealed."
IDPA rule says:
 

drgrant

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While I'm sure someone at some point has done this and gotten away with it, it should be pointed out that this is definitely against the rules in USPSA and Steel Challenge, and I'm 99% sure it's against the rules in IDPA.

If you wanna carry a loaded gun while competing, go find (or found) a sport that allows it.
It's against the rules in 99% of gun games. Only time I ever did was with bowling pins, but that's not a holster sport. The idea of having to have a 2nd hot gun on my person while competing is rubber lipper territory.

-Mike
 
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