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who to use for reference

C

CTR4011

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So the app asks for 2 references.
I am wondering who to ask and or does it make any difference!?
Do they have to be local to the town I am applying in, or just in MA. Some of the people I have in mind that I know would give me a reference, I am not sure if they are or not gun owners.
I also have mixed feelings about telling people about a personal choice like that.
 
OP - More details in a question will yield better answers.

If it's a Mass LTC, and there is no stated requirements by the City/Town (e.g. non-family), put whomever you like, that likes you. I've done a few, and have never been contacted, though others have.

I think that the requirement is there, because if you can't find two people that can say, "He's not a complete f-up," you may have issues.
 
I have renewed my LTC 6 times in 3 towns my machine gun license twice including Springfield and in all those years none of my references have ever been contacted, even the machine gun license I got in Springfield.
 
SFC13557 said:
I thought we were done with references?
Click to expand...

OP could always challenge them in court. But a guy who joins NES especially to ask a question because he's worried about following the rules correctly, I think, is not likely to be the guy who files the challenge.

We're not done with references. We're done with the CoP using those references to determine anything important. They remain a nuisance, but it really doesn't matter who OP uses.
 
Picton said:
OP could always challenge them in court. But a guy who joins NES especially to ask a question because he's worried about following the rules correctly, I think, is not likely to be the guy who files the challenge.

We're not done with references. We're done with the CoP using those references to determine anything important. They remain a nuisance, but it really doesn't matter who OP uses.
Click to expand...
So Ma. is ignoring Bruen?
 
SFC13557 said:
So Ma. is ignoring Bruen?
Click to expand...
No. We talked about this at length in the aftermath of the decision, on those other threads.

Requiring a license is fine with SCOTUS, so in theory whatever process local jurisdictions go through is also fine with SCOTUS. If that process includes references, then SCOTUS is presumably fine with those references too (until that issue challenged successfully at some time in the future).

What SCOTUS is NOT fine with is using those references to arbitrarily deny RKBA. From what we've seen, MA is no longer doing that anywhere in the state. So, on that level, MA is not ignoring Bruen. We won't be able to say MA is ignoring Bruen until someone gets turned down for an LTC and then files a suit that goes anywhere. OP can still be required to submit letters, but the CoP is no longer allowed to deny based on those letters.
 
There is nothing in MA law that requires references.
The application used to say optional but I don't know if it still does. Back then I left them blank and just shrugged my shoulders when the intake person said something. But now that people have complied for years to this unlawful requirement, all the towns treat it as a legal requirement. If it even gets challenged in court I'd bet it gets shut down. You may not want to be that one.
So put in anybody from anywhere, remember there is nothing in the law limiting who or where that person is. As long as they won't say bad things about you. Remember, the only risk here is suitability.
 
I included two out-of-state references (I moved here from out of state) and they did not contact either. Both were friends, one a police detective, the other a psychiatrist. I was kind of disappointed they didn't call them, lol.
 
CTR4011 said:
So the app asks for 2 references.
I am wondering who to ask and or does it make any difference!?
Do they have to be local to the town I am applying in, or just in MA. Some of the people I have in mind that I know would give me a reference, I am not sure if they are or not gun owners.
I also have mixed feelings about telling people about a personal choice like that.
Click to expand...
You are lucky the application doesn't ask for proof of creating a proper thread.

Is it that hard to provide proper details?
 
On a serious note, references should be someone who has known you at least a couple years and can confirm you are a solid citizen and mentally stable. I think it is helpful if they are in your local area, but I have never seen any mandatory criteria for references. Not comfortable sharing your 'personal choices' with 2 other people? Move to another state without such requirements or get into black powder and/or archery.
 
I put someone who is a LEO in my town and a neighbor on my original application. The licensing officer asked who the stranger was and he seemed upset that I chose a random person.

My last several renewals had the LEO and a friend who is FBI.
 
Mountain said:
On a serious note, references should be someone who has known you at least a couple years and can confirm you are a solid citizen and mentally stable. I think it is helpful if they are in your local area, but I have never seen any mandatory criteria for references. Not comfortable sharing your 'personal choices' with 2 other people? Move to another state without such requirements or get into black powder and/or archery.
Click to expand...
Or don't put any down and prepare for a possible fight. Remember this.
There is no references requirement in the law. So all they could do is deny on suitability (for refusing to provide references), not likely to survive the risk to public safety that is in the law, but if it does, it's not going to survive in in a higher court especially with Bruen.

The reality is it won't go to the circuit court, it will get corrected before that so they don't set a precedent on these extra requirements that will carry throughout the state and then some.

Of course you'll be on the hook for the cost of doing this.

Remember IANAL so if I;m wrong all you'll get from me is an apology.

I will say this. If the OP did this, and got denied for it (no other surprises), and it can be brought to a court that can set some kind of precedent that will put an end to the local add on requirements, I will donate to that legal action. And I'm not even a MA resident any longer.
 
Maybe the Franklin twins will work as a reference...?

1669441849405.png
 
CTR4011 said:
So the app asks for 2 references.
I am wondering who to ask and or does it make any difference!?
Do they have to be local to the town I am applying in, or just in MA. Some of the people I have in mind that I know would give me a reference, I am not sure if they are or not gun owners.
I also have mixed feelings about telling people about a personal choice like that.
Click to expand...
Best bet would be to put a cop if you know one. Aside from that, anyone without a serious criminal history that is a veteran, professional, whatever.
 

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