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Which defense ammo for .22 resolver?
- Thread starter 2garfields
- Start date
marvelshooter
Banned
I was tempted to be a smart a** and say anything that fires but since you are probably serious I will say CCI Stingers.
SJan
NES Member
A baseball bat
Retired-LEO
NES Member
.22LR stingers I once tested them against 3/4" pine boards lined up;
went through 5 boards & got stuck in the 6th board! If it can do that it could stop somebody, provided your placement of the round(s) hits in the right spot!
went through 5 boards & got stuck in the 6th board! If it can do that it could stop somebody, provided your placement of the round(s) hits in the right spot!
beaker
NES Member
I guess you could say the 22 is WAY better than a board with a nail in it, but is isn't close to the best choice for self defense when compared to 9mm, or even .380.
There are 2,030,000 hits for "22 for self defense" if you google it. Here are some linkys...
http://www.shootingillustrated.com/index.php/1354/22-lr-for-self-defense/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2PSddmxGtI
There are 2,030,000 hits for "22 for self defense" if you google it. Here are some linkys...
http://www.shootingillustrated.com/index.php/1354/22-lr-for-self-defense/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2PSddmxGtI
If you have no other option, the deal is this: with such a light weight bullet, and a light weight load, you need every bit of advantage you can squeak out of that caliber for penetration.
How do you do this?
- Never use hollow points, solid bullets will penetrate better closer to FBI stopping standards than a hollow point which would mushroom and stop shallow and likely only anger your target. A solid point is going to go deeper and perhaps tumble causing more damage to tissue.
- use the heaviest bullet you can find (40 grains are typical)
- get the hottest load you can find (with the most FPS rating you can)
There are Aguilar .22lr rounds which can be heavy and have hotter loads, but they're often very dirty, and not as reliable as other makes of the caliber.
For better quality and reliability, you may want to go with CCI stinger solid points in 40 grain. There is also the Winchester X Super in .22lr (40 grain/1,300 fps):
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/49686
In the end, I would only prepare to use the .22 caliber for self defense in a back-up, no other option role. And then with a rifle, which will give it better FPS due to the length of barrel.
How do you do this?
- Never use hollow points, solid bullets will penetrate better closer to FBI stopping standards than a hollow point which would mushroom and stop shallow and likely only anger your target. A solid point is going to go deeper and perhaps tumble causing more damage to tissue.
- use the heaviest bullet you can find (40 grains are typical)
- get the hottest load you can find (with the most FPS rating you can)
There are Aguilar .22lr rounds which can be heavy and have hotter loads, but they're often very dirty, and not as reliable as other makes of the caliber.
For better quality and reliability, you may want to go with CCI stinger solid points in 40 grain. There is also the Winchester X Super in .22lr (40 grain/1,300 fps):
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/49686
In the end, I would only prepare to use the .22 caliber for self defense in a back-up, no other option role. And then with a rifle, which will give it better FPS due to the length of barrel.
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Retired-LEO
NES Member
Not saying I would recommend using a .22LR!!!
Just saying it CAN do more damage than most people think it can.
Ok, I'm going to throw this out there because I just found it searching the web. It implies the hollowpoints rated better at stopping than solid nose bullets. I don't know if I buy it, but felt I should share it. I think physics says that a solid bullet will simply go deeper, and that would be more likely to reach a vital organ. Your mileage may vary, as they say out there on the interwebz...
Here is what I found someone saying on the interwebs:
"'Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness'
'Forensic Pathology of Firearm Wounds'
FBI website
Evan Marshall
and a host of others.
Here is just one set of data points derived from actual REAL WORLD shootings with upper torso hits:
22Lr ranged 30-35% in one shot stops with HPs, Stingers, HV rounds with round nose rating lowest."
Here is what I found someone saying on the interwebs:
"'Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness'
'Forensic Pathology of Firearm Wounds'
FBI website
Evan Marshall
and a host of others.
Here is just one set of data points derived from actual REAL WORLD shootings with upper torso hits:
22Lr ranged 30-35% in one shot stops with HPs, Stingers, HV rounds with round nose rating lowest."
StevieP
NES Member
A baseball bat requires strength and proximity which cannot be assumed. I don't think my mother (RIP) would have had the ability to hit someone with a bat. But if someone was breaking into her home she surely could handle a .22 pistol. ANY gun -- even a .22 -- is better than no gun or most any other handheld weapon (bat, knife) when there is otherwise a disparity of force (i.e. a stronger, larger person, or multiple assailants)
9mm much? possibly a shotgun in the twenty gauge pump variety?
Dom
Dom
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you guys don't like the 36grain hp's huh?
Haven't shot any into ballistics gel, nor have I seen videos on their effective mushrooming capabilities.
At short range, they'll likely not mushroom at all.
I do agree that you want a combo of HIGH velocity & HIGH weight (kinetic energy).
Only reason I don't shoot the 40-grain bullets is because the ones I see are usually all lead (non-jacketed).
Haven't shot any into ballistics gel, nor have I seen videos on their effective mushrooming capabilities.
At short range, they'll likely not mushroom at all.
I do agree that you want a combo of HIGH velocity & HIGH weight (kinetic energy).
Only reason I don't shoot the 40-grain bullets is because the ones I see are usually all lead (non-jacketed).
from what i have heard a 22lr in the rib cage becomes a ping pong ball. It lacks instant stomping power but it will give someone a bad day and will cause hard to repair internal bleeding and damage. If a 22 is the only option then i would vote for stingers and practice much as possible as others said placement is key. One upside to a 22lr is the low recoil and super fast follow up shots, a few 22lr to the heart would suck for anyone.
dcmdon
NES Member
Boy. Not much love for the .22. TNoutdoor9 tested the stinger .22 into balistic gelatin and was by how well the stinger did.
It penetrated his gelatin block to 8 inches and actually created a nasty temporary cavity a couple o finches in.
[video=youtube_share;u_jEfcszqcQ]http://youtu.be/u_jEfcszqcQ[/video]
He also tested the CCI Velocitor and was BLOWN AWAY by its performance.
It expanded to .351 and penetrated 11 inches!!!!
[video=youtube_share;N7plzIVmLlU]http://youtu.be/N7plzIVmLlU[/video]
I would suspect that a few shots into the right place would do a pretty good job.
Don
It penetrated his gelatin block to 8 inches and actually created a nasty temporary cavity a couple o finches in.
[video=youtube_share;u_jEfcszqcQ]http://youtu.be/u_jEfcszqcQ[/video]
He also tested the CCI Velocitor and was BLOWN AWAY by its performance.
It expanded to .351 and penetrated 11 inches!!!!
[video=youtube_share;N7plzIVmLlU]http://youtu.be/N7plzIVmLlU[/video]
I would suspect that a few shots into the right place would do a pretty good job.
Don
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Quick pont of order on that video...he fired it from a ruger 10/22 RIFLE. Gotta think the muzzle velocity is higher than if it were fired from a pistol. We are discssing self defense pistols I think. Gotta compare apples to apples right? Anyone think that kind of expansion and cavity would be acheived fired from a pistol with a 4 or 5 inch barrel?
dcmdon
NES Member
Absolutely. Thanks for correcting me on that. There could be a 400 fps difference for all we know between handgun and rifle.
I'll change the post to reflect that.
He also has a video shooting from a sr-22 pistol , I believe mini mags.
+1
I did some .22 testing with Federal bulk, Stingers, and Mini-mags. I found that even Federal bulk (my fav. bulk) almost goes entirely through a thick phonebook. It'll blow right through a 1" pine like butter. The Mini-mags are really great too but I forget their result. They're better than a sharp stick but I'd stick to larger calibers. Overkill is underrated.
I treated a middle aged male on dressed in a button down ss shirt. He was shot L side of chest approximately the level of the 6th rib. The bullet hit the rib and traveled over the ribs and ended up at the level of his elbow and was palpable under the skin. The bullet was a copper colored hp. with a slight dent in the hp (No expansion) He walked out of the ER.
The second one that comes to mind was a female in her 20s who shot herself (LRN) in the soft palate with a .22 rifle. The bullet never left the skull and ended up just under the sternal notch.
I've had the opportunity to treat a few GSWs,
Imo bullets over 115gr seem to be most effective.
Woman Uses .22 Pistol to Shoot & Kill Invader http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFJte6Sic44
Many more examples just like this. A 22 will take odd paths through the body, sometimes killing or sometimes not causing serious damage. Just keep shooting till they drop.
Many more examples just like this. A 22 will take odd paths through the body, sometimes killing or sometimes not causing serious damage. Just keep shooting till they drop.
NYC has the .22cal killer
![[shocked]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/007.gif "Shocked [shocked]")
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...lyn-store-owners-murder-linked-shootings.html
When I posted .22 ammo question yesterday, not sure why someone would think is a joke. There are a lot people out there due to limitation, .22 is what they feel the most comfortable.
I have no intention to start any threads such as .22 VS or whatever caliber, or baseball bat VS butter knife. If you want to post any comments other than .22 ammo, please start a thread in the chit chat section.
I have no intention to start any threads such as .22 VS or whatever caliber, or baseball bat VS butter knife. If you want to post any comments other than .22 ammo, please start a thread in the chit chat section.
cockpitbob
NES Member
Velocitor. Hands down.
40gr at over 1,400fts.
It's all about muzzle energy and penetration. For human sized animals you don't want a light, fast expanding hollow point intended for rabbits. You want the full 40gr and all the velocity you can get.
The statistics I've read say that anything that goes bang and hits the bad guy has a good chance of ending the situation in your favor. Bigger is better, but .22 in the pocket beats a .45 in the safe.
40gr at over 1,400fts.
It's all about muzzle energy and penetration. For human sized animals you don't want a light, fast expanding hollow point intended for rabbits. You want the full 40gr and all the velocity you can get.
The statistics I've read say that anything that goes bang and hits the bad guy has a good chance of ending the situation in your favor. Bigger is better, but .22 in the pocket beats a .45 in the safe.
dcmdon
NES Member
I read an interesting article a few months ago. It advocated the use of .22 for defensive guns. The logic went something like this.
For a large minority of shooters, their ability to control recoil and deliver a good aimed 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc shot with most centerfire guns is dubious.
So given some of the following stats, they may be better off with a .22.
1) A certain large percentage of bad guys flee once a firearm is presented. In this case a .22 is as effective as a .44 magnum.
2) Another certain large percentage flee once they see or hear the good guy shooting. Again, size doesn't matter here.
3) Another good percent succumb to the "psychological stop". In other words, they are shot, they know they are shot, but nothing is physiologically preventing their attack. But after being shot, they choose to not continue.
4) Its generally accepted that shot placement is key. You will probably have to hit your assailant with more .22s than larger calibers to physiologically stop him. But with a .22 you are more likely to get hits on your 2nd, 3rd, and 4th shot. further those shots will be better placed.
I'm not sure I buy all of this, but its an interesting perspective. Its also the same argument I make in favor of the 9mm vs .40 in most small, light carry guns.
Don
For a large minority of shooters, their ability to control recoil and deliver a good aimed 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc shot with most centerfire guns is dubious.
So given some of the following stats, they may be better off with a .22.
1) A certain large percentage of bad guys flee once a firearm is presented. In this case a .22 is as effective as a .44 magnum.
2) Another certain large percentage flee once they see or hear the good guy shooting. Again, size doesn't matter here.
3) Another good percent succumb to the "psychological stop". In other words, they are shot, they know they are shot, but nothing is physiologically preventing their attack. But after being shot, they choose to not continue.
4) Its generally accepted that shot placement is key. You will probably have to hit your assailant with more .22s than larger calibers to physiologically stop him. But with a .22 you are more likely to get hits on your 2nd, 3rd, and 4th shot. further those shots will be better placed.
I'm not sure I buy all of this, but its an interesting perspective. Its also the same argument I make in favor of the 9mm vs .40 in most small, light carry guns.
Don
