Where's the "How can we be part of the solution?" Megathread?

[Kevin_NH]

Make NICS available to everybody, without limits.

I'd love to be able to do a "civilian NICS check" with just a name and address!

I'd have an instant way to thin out the ranks of applicants when I need to hire an employee or somebody to work in my home (Plumber, etc).

 

[Hiltonizer]

I think encouraging (Not legislating or forcing) firearm safety education in public schools would be a good thing.

I know I would've given anything to have been doing that in PE instead of any one of the mindless games we did.

The scant few times we got to do archery were like a gift from the gods.

Now THAT is something I could get behind. Public school is a joke anyway and should be abolished, but since that isn't going to happen shooting safety and instruction should be part of the curriculum. They'd never be able to claim budget woes either, pro2a orgs will fill that gap in a heartbeat.

 

[ChikkenNoodul]

A big push recently it seems, is to bring volunteer CPR instructors into the schools and get select classes CPR certified, you know that will save lives, I could see the same thing for firearms education.

 

[Cardinal Ximinez]

This debate isn't about "solutions". It's about the left exploiting the situation so they can weaken 2A rights.

 

[ChikkenNoodul]

This debate isn't about "solutions". It's about the left exploiting the situation so they can weaken 2A rights.

Of course it is, but one of the common complaints I heard about "conservatives" during the lead up to Obamacare was that they didn't offer any alternatives.

Ludicrous, I know, but coming up with ideas that do NOT further restrict rights, is probably not a bad thing.

Just talking to some fence sitters in the last couple of days, stressing education over more reactionary laws, without jumping in to the larger gun rights issue, seemed to take hold without raising their defenses.

 

[calsdad]

Did I do that? I don't want any of us to give up anything. Of bigger concern is having them taken or infringed upon without our consent.

Something's gonna happen. It won't be nothing this time. Please help us all attain something bearable

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

"Please help us all attain something bearable"

You see - that's where the fail is - right there.

You are starting from the point of already accepting that something bad is going to happen and gun rights will be further taken away.

Instead of putting up with BS like this - what you ought to be doing is concentrating on figuring out what REALLY caused this problem - and telling YOURSELF - and other people - that you will not TOLERATE ANY MORE INFRINGEMENT ON YOUR NATURAL RIGHT TO DEFEND YOURSELF.

Ask yourself why you should suffer - for the actions of another?

Ask yourself why we should tolerate any more anti-gun laws when the guns are not the problem.

Ask yourself why the government is so dysfunctional that it constantly tries to restrict access to things - like guns and drugs - when there is copious evidence that it's efforts consistently fail - over and over and over and over again.

And last but not in the least:

If people are TRULY concerned that this not happen again - then what they ought to be concentrating on is SOLVING THE REAL ****ING PROBLEM - whatever that is.

Is it because we have a piss poor mental health system?

Is it because we force by law - people to send their children into government run facilities that concentrate victims in one place so they can get taken out easily?

Is it because the drugs that these kids are on somehow screw with their minds and make them into killers?



Or is it the guns?

If you REALLY believe it's the guns - then IMHO - you've got a lot of educatin' you need to do to yourself.

If you DON'T believe its the guns - then stop acting like you do.

 

[calsdad]

Now THAT is something I could get behind. Public school is a joke anyway and should be abolished, but since that isn't going to happen shooting safety and instruction should be part of the curriculum. They'd never be able to claim budget woes either, pro2a orgs will fill that gap in a heartbeat.

Actually.......

If people stop and think a little - this incident is a really damning indictment of public schooling. I honestly think we're missing the opportunity here to drive a stake into public schooling.

It's plainly obvious that the institution of public schooling has created an attractive nuisance for killers - and public schooling is getting children killed. People ought to start really pushing that. Turn the tables on those people and make them answer for something for a change.

WTF am I FORCED as a parent to send my child to a place where the people who are running it have seemingly done everything they can to expose my child to all sorts of bad things - up to and including getting him killed? I mean seriously - what do kids get exposed to at school? They get exposed to drugs, they get exposed to bad behavior, they get exposed to fighting, - and the get exposed to getting themselves killed.

If you knew the that type of place you worked had been targeted by mass murderers again and again and again - wouldn't you think twice about finding a new line of work?

I think you are right about the education thing to a certain extent though. One of the best things I ever did was take my wife shooting. Now whenever one of these incidents occurs - she falls back on how hard it was to hit a target. Without that experience she likely would have fallen prey to that BS about how somebody with a "high capacity pistol" could just "spray bullets" and kill dozens of people. Now she knows that's just BS - and she also knows that if she was ever confronted with a gunman (gunperson?) - she should get her ass up off the floor and RUN - not just cower in a corner and wait to die.

 

[ChikkenNoodul]

Why do we always call a shooter at odds with the law a gunman anyway?

Do we call an assailant with a knife a knifeman?

And if so, should we call the same with a bat..........a batman?

 

[Cardinal Ximinez]

Of course it is, but one of the common complaints I heard about "conservatives" during the lead up to Obamacare was that they didn't offer any alternatives.

Ludicrous, I know, but coming up with ideas that do NOT further restrict rights, is probably not a bad thing.

Just talking to some fence sitters in the last couple of days, stressing education over more reactionary laws, without jumping in to the larger gun rights issue, seemed to take hold without raising their defenses.

You know, when you start off admitting that the other side won't listen and discuss in good faith, by definition, you do not have a conversation.

 

[fubar]

Carlsdad got it right.

Mandatory participation/attendance at a government facility full of our children deserves armed guards. And if you think about it , dangerous inner city schools do not have mass murders , do they ? because they have ****ing police in them already.

 

[Hiltonizer]

Carlsdad got it right.

Mandatory participation/attendance at a government facility full of our children deserves armed guards. And if you think about it , dangerous inner city schools do not have mass murders , do they ? because they have ****ing police in them already.

My high school had a security gate, armed security, cameras everywhere... but it was still possible to get a hummer under the stairwell.

 

[StevieP]

His shrink failed to report some nuttery that would have caused him to fail.

Failing a check to prevent licensure is one thing. Does/Could/should "emergency" reporting of psychosis result in other action to check what he already had, and to notify his circle of influence to be on-guard to keep him from accessing theirs?

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

 

[HTRN]

This debate isn't about "solutions". It's about the left exploiting the situation so they can weaken 2A rights.

Don't fool yourself. Its not just the left that wants you defenseless.

Sent from my mobile device.

 

[ChikkenNoodul]

You know, when you start off admitting that the other side won't listen and discuss in good faith, by definition, you do not have a conversation.

Believe it or not, there ARE people out there that just don't know the truth, aren't exactly sure they should believe the media and just need a little education and some alternative ideas to get behind.

Of course, there are the people that will never change their minds.

 

[Hiltonizer]

Failing a check to prevent licensure is one thing. Does/Could/should "emergency" reporting of psychosis result in other action to check what he already had, and to notify his circle of influence to be on-guard to keep him from accessing theirs?

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

A registration list would be a non-starter to us here in free america, it would depend on severity and require a search warrant on question 1.. very slippery slope. Question 2, if you don't have intimate knowledge of someones mental state who lives with you or otherwise has access to your home, you should be taking those precautions anyway, so no because you can't legislate common sense.

 

[josh2600]

No.

Sent from my mobile device.

x2

 

[josh2600]

I think encouraging (Not legislating or forcing) firearm safety education in public schools would be a good thing.

I think this is a swell idea just because, but let's not kid ourselves and think this is going to do squat to stop crazy, it won't.

 

[StevieP]

This
My guns or a million and or other gun owners didn't kill anyone
We followed the laws no matter how ludicrous they were
We didn't allow a broken and deranged lunitic access to our firearms
We didn't miss diagnose his apptitude for violence
We had nothing to do with what happened here anymore than we did with:
Timothy Mcvey blowing up federal buildings
Terrorist flying planes into building
The Colorado shooting
Or any other F_ing catastrophy human beings have been known to commit in history

By the way, we are not part of the effing problem!

I wholeheartedly agree.

But there *IS* a problem. And even though we didn't create the problem, other people want to create 'solutions' to what THEY perceive IS a GUN problem. Whether we believe it's a gun problem or not is irrelevant.

 

[noddaduma]

The problem is you've been goddamned brainwashed into believing the TOOL is the issue and not the person using it. Anything you do to further restrict a fundamental right is going to reduce the number of times the TOOL is used to PREVENT a crime.

Want to make a difference? Address the people who create the problem. Volunteer to guard your school. Funded care for special needs has been decimated in this country. Push to revitalize the system of state and federal mental institutions we used to have..where people with special needs can be cared for and can avoid mixing dangerously with society (for both themselves and society).

 

[fubar]

I think we need to stress as clearly as we can that

the legal system was too slow admitting a nut case into a mental health facility ,

and he went to a place where the government requires our kids to be but refuses to protect our children ,

and committed murder with stolen property that came from a state with very strict gun control laws.

And it's offensive that the news is manipulating you Worried Parents and Democrats.

 

[Rick Roma]

There've been crapload of other threads lamenting potential AWBs, and generally bitching about new Gun Control mandates. Where's the thread offering alternative solutions to the gun grabbers?

I think our general direction in the upcoming months ought to be something along the lines of "What can we do to set American Gun Law in stone, and leave it alone, in perpetuity, never to be argued again?"

Let's get it RIGHT, in an arrangement that works for everyone.

Limiting the guns themselves is stupid. No ban has ever done anything. It's inarguable. Any "assault weapons ban" should be vigorously argued as a direct infringement of 2A Rights. Period. End of sentence.

Soooo. What else *is* on the table?

What can we do that doesn't restrict in any way the access and availability to whatever firearms we could want or need, but that would show that responsible gun owners want be part of the solution and not continually be seen as purveyors of problems for other people?

In my opinion, about the only thing we can reasonably expect to ask (as in, it's REALLY not too much to ASK) is that, as a responsible gun owner, you *should*:

1) Take a firearms safety class and learn and obey our own responsible gun owners' self-imposed set of rules, i.e.:
All guns are always loaded.
Never point a gun at anything you are unwilling to destroy.
Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire.
Know your target.
Keep your gun at the minimum level of readiness.

Many states that don’t require licenses really do have a lot of unsafe operators out there. This is something we can do to be “self-policing” and show the greater population that we’re not just a bunch of dumb rednecks with guns. (We’ll be trained rednecks with guns?)

2) If there are children in the home of any lawful gun owner -- as soon as they're of the right age, they should take the Eddie Eagle training (stop, don't touch, get away, call an adult, etc.). How many of your kids know what to do if they see a gun? Are you sure?

3) Observe safe storage laws, in particular if you have children and/or mental defectives among the list of people who might reasonably have access to your firearms. (e.g. a 20-year old kid who's just found out his momma is gonna put him away and that she loves the school more than she loves him and he's gonna show them all!!) But I digress. Net-net -- If Ms. Lanza's guns were in a safe with a combination lock, other than when they were under her direct control, she'd probably be alive today.

I actually do think, in the 21st Century, we really need to make some concessions to modernity -- that modern sporting rifles really ARE easy to use to kill a lot of people quickly. In good hands that's not a problem, because the operator has a moral compass and won’t do it. In the wrong hands, obviously, it is a problem for a lot of other people who may not necessarily agree with our views on guns. Keeping our guns out of the hands of undesirables shouldn’t be hard.

There should be two types of guns:
1) Those in your direct control, and
2) Those that are secure (definition up for discussion)

To be honest, I have had a somewhat lackadaisical habit of leaving my gun on the table, or nightstand, or even once on the back of the toilet, and walked away. Nobody got hurt. Nobody was in the house but me and my wife and adult sons. But I know in the past I've even left the house and left guns un-locked too. Nothing happened! They didn't get up and shoot anyone when I wasn't there. But I recognize this is potentially problematic if there was a break-in, and over the past months have tried to make a concerted effort to be better about it. Obviously anyone who broke into my house and stole my guns would be a thief, but I shouldn’t make his job easy.

4) Background checks for licensing. I don't know what to say about this. I live in MA. I got checked. It didn't kill me. It doesn't do a thing to prevent crime but it calms the sheeple to know that at least the licensed gun buyers are not criminals. They still have to worry about the unlicensed ones though.

What else ya got? How *can* we be part of the solution, while at the same time giving up nothing?

Anyone taking bets on what the NRA will say in their News Conference on Friday? In their announcement they hinted on offering to help solve the problem. I'm somehow thinking their gambit will be something along the lines of "Remove every gun law ever written" or something like that. “Nobody should need a license to exercise a Constitutional Right!”

That'd be cool. Aim high, I guess.

Can you cite any law of any kind on the books anywhere that specifies that people *should* do something?

 

[StevieP]

Can you cite any law of any kind on the books anywhere that specifies that people *should* do something?

Nope. "secure" is a subjective term. Means different thing to different people, and in different areas that have different risks. I just think we as a group of gun owners should try to be as responsible as we can, given those risks, to mitigate negative outcomes of a possible breach of whatever security measures you implement.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

 

[ASHDUMP]

I applaud the OP for starting this discussion on what "we" should do. I know a lot of sentiment here is "get your laws off my body and get the government out of our bedroom" (which is what I subscribe too) however this isn't the country we live in. Unfortunately my predecessors let the .gov run us over like a freight train. So just sitting back saying "mind your own F'n business" isn't going to work.

I don't know what will, but sitting back pretending we're in 1777 isn't going to do it for us.

I don't even own a rifle yet so I'm pissed as I know restrictions are coming in one form or another. My rights have been infringed way before I was born. I blame the people before me. Just think what the people 50 years from now are going to say about us.

 

[Jsfitzgerald85]

I applaud the OP for starting this discussion on what "we" should do. I know a lot of sentiment here is "get your laws off my body and get the government out of our bedroom" (which is what I subscribe too) however this isn't the country we live in. Unfortunately my predecessors let the .gov run us over like a freight train. So just sitting back saying "mind your own F'n business" isn't going to work.

I don't know what will, but sitting back pretending we're in 1777 isn't going to do it for us.

I don't even own a rifle yet so I'm pissed as I know restrictions are coming in one form or another. My rights have been infringed way before I was born. I blame the people before me. Just think what the people 50 years from now are going to say about us.

the sad thing is this has been going on for more then a couple of generations, this country has a sad history of trading rights and liberty for safety, WW2 is a perfect example. 9/11 made it worse. This will further the problem.

 

[Fsorrent]

I think the problem isn't with the laws, most of us are well versed enough in the matter to know better. I don't think there is a person on this forum that doesn't want to do something to prevent another tragedy. I know for myself I'm not afraid about the gun laws themselves, but that not only will we all have to be subjected to more regulations and bologna, but to make matters worse it'll do absoluletly nothing to quell the issue. Trying to tell liberals that is about as fulfilling as smelling your own farts.

 

[glockstones]

As I said, I would support required NICS checks for private sales in states that don't have licensing. Flame on. That is something I could get behind. It may only stop 1.5% or something but that's 1.5%, and it has no ill-effects on the law abiding whatsoever, other than 5 minutes of your time.

At Umass the umass gun club offers free safety courses and basic shooting instruction (by certified instructors), and we offer the actual paperwork for said course at a discount. I am going to make an effort to reach out to and educate faculty.

Mike

I would give you NICS checks for every sale of firearms if when it comes up clean I can buy whatever I want full auto, SBR, SBS and destructive devices anything goes no extra taxes or registration for any of it because I have passed their "check".

 

[Jsfitzgerald85]

I would give you NICS checks for every sale of firearms if when it comes up clean I can buy whatever I want full auto, SBR, SBS and destructive devices anything goes no extra taxes or registration for any of it because I have passed their "check".

this is how it should be, if your law abiding enough to own one firearm type, whats the difference with owning another

 

[seth72]

All of you people who think that gunowners should do this or do that to be part of the solution so that you'll impress the population with your responsible and professional demeanor are under the wrong impression.

The antis don't care how responsible you are or how professional you look or how well-trained and well-spoken you are. The antis want to disarm the population so that they have you under their control.

Get real.

You want to know what you can do to be part of the solution? Refuse to compromise your rights at all costs.

 

[endus]

I think background checks on all purchases (in places where it's not already required) would probably take some of the wind out of the anti-gun brigades sails. It's a concession that the firearms community could make that would probably send the right message and get some people off our backs. Is it right in principle? Probably not. But given the choice between a stricter AWB and more stringent background checks I will take the background checks. I agree that allowing people to purchase full-auto, SBRs, etc. in trade would be a very decent tradeoff, but obviously that will never happen.

Would it have prevented this tragedy? Of course not. This tragedy was easily preventable by a mother keeping her son, who she was working to have committed to an institution, from having access to her firearms...i.e. what any remotely responsible gun owner would do. But, hey, that doesn't make for a good sound bite.

The biggest problem I see out there is ignorance. Almost no one understands that you can't just go out and buy an automatic weapon, and those that have some inkling that you can't believe that everyone is out there converting their semis to full auto with a roll of scotch tape and a paperclip. There is widespread ignorance about background checks and what kind of screening goes in to buying a gun as well.

The biggest problem we're facing is politicians with an agenda. I am trying so very hard to ignore the news because it makes me physically ill to hear all these lying, pandering pieces of shit spreading misinformation and outright lies to push their own agenda. These ****ing ghouls will use anything to get themselves ahead no matter how bad it is for the country and who they have to step on. Make no mistake, the "conversation" about firearms licensing that is going to take place is nothing more than a way for politicians to reduce the influence of the gun lobby and solidify the government's power over us in a time where even the average person is starting to wonder why they need a rectal exam to get on a plane.

Truth is not the objective.

Preventing another tragedy is not the objective.

Advancing politicians' personal agendas and careers...that's what it's about.

I think expanding access to mental health care, whether privately or publicly, is what is really going to prevent another incident like this. There is insufficient access to mental healthcare in this country, period. It is difficult for people to get the services they need when they need them. You can debate the "how's" all you want, but at the end of the day, that's what we need.

 

[drgrant]

The problem is the NICS checks wouldn't have picked up the last three guys I remember.

NICS checks, as they currently exist, do very little. The only plausible argument is that they MAY have stopped Laughner and Cho if they were profiled and disqualified due to MH reasons- but this all assumes that a system existed where someone could be disqualified from gun ownership at the drop of a hat without due process. That obviously is a ball of wax all its own.

Obviously in this case NICS wouldn't have done a damned thing- even if this kid was flagged six ways to sunday, the way he acquired his guns has nothing to do with that system. So the antis logical excursion is going to be what, a NICS denial if you're anything less than 2 degrees of separation from a "known" nutjob?

-Mike