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where to get 41xx bar stock

dnepro-mike

dnepro-mike

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i'm conceiving my own receiver but having hard time finding properly sized hunk of steel
i would need a piece of plate or flat bar that is at least 35mm thick and 75 mm wide.
i checked out most usual online metal re-sellers i.e. onlinemetalsupply, speedymetals, onlinemetals
they either don't have what i need or don't have right sizes

i'm willing to travel if I can get source locally. especially if that place can band-saw few pieces to my specs.
any ideas?
 
Are you sure you want 4000 series, it's generally very soft in terms of metal?
Click to expand...

Hear treated 4140 and 4340 are commonly used in the industry for carbon steel receivers, and can be heat treated to an appropriate hardness for both 1911 frames and slides.
 
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Rob Boudrie said:
Hear treated 4130 and 4140 are commonly used in the industry for carbon steel receivers, and can be heat treated to an appropriate hardness for both 1911 frames and slides.
Click to expand...

I've never produced my own receiver, but is it worth buying 4000 series just to have to heat treat it after you machine it? What are the benefits? Is it just easier to work with in its raw state?
 
Moderator said:
I've never produced my own receiver, but is it worth buying 4000 series just to have to heat treat it after you machine it? What are the benefits? Is it just easier to work with in its raw state?
Click to expand...

benefits: machining is easier to do on softer steel. If you were to go with a harder steel, you'd chew through tooling faster.

you start with the 41xx and then heat treat it after you're done forming it.
 
I don't know what kind of receiver you are building, or how complicated it is, but what kind of machining capabilities do you have? If you have access to a full machine shop and can use carbide tools then you can get a piece of pre-hardened 4140. If you are doing it without a milling machine and good tooling than you best get an annealed piece of 4140 that may or may not need to be heat treated when you are done. I say 4140 because it is an all around good quality steel that is readily available and can be heat treated if necessary.

I would first call 3 or 4 local machine shops and ask them for a block of 4140. They probably have a scrap piece in the cast offs that they would sell cheap. If that failed, I would consider the sources below:

www.Mcmaster.com
6554K751 / annealed (soft) 4140 Alloy Steel Rectangular Bar 1-1/2" Thick, 3" Width, 1' Length / $79.79

Give Turner Steel a call in W Bridgewater
Turner Steel Comore info‎
128 N Main St # 4
West Bridgewater, MA 02379
(508) 583-7800

Admiral Metals up in Woburn - most expensive
11 Forbes Road Woburn, MA 01801
(781) 933-8300
 
KMS said:
How fast do you need it?

And how long do you need it to be?
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not fast, by the end of the year maybe.
the length is 350mm

I don't know what kind of receiver you are building, or how complicated it is, but what kind of machining capabilities do you have? If you have access to a full machine shop and can use carbide tools then you can get a piece of pre-hardened 4140. If you are doing it without a milling machine and good tooling than you best get an annealed piece of 4140 that may or may not need to be heat treated when you are done. I say 4140 because it is an all around good quality steel that is readily available and can be heat treated if necessary.
Click to expand...

there is considerable amount of machining so i'd rather go with annealed. also i'm planning to use mix of HHS and carbide.

I have BF20 class hobby mill that i'm planning on using.
 
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Fixxah said:
Turner Steel in Bridgewater.
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they only deal in mild steel products, good selection, but it's all mild shit. I asked.

It's pretty friggin hard to find anything that's not mild steel. I called many companies around Boston, many don't even stock steel they sell. I was looking for non-mild-steel sheet metal and it's an impossible find.

You may be better making contact and ordering from China. I kid not. US does not produce steel anymore. [sad2]
 
Rob Boudrie said:
How would you say it compares to 4340?
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not as good, but cheaper. 4340 can be heat treated at higher temperatures successfully. And after heat treat, it is a tougher steel that has a higher fracture resistance. As a direct result of this mechanical characteristic, it has a better hardness at lower temperatures than 4140.

It's more expensive, though. Saying that a firearm receiver needs 4340 over 4140 would be a stretch... unless you're shooting space aliens on Mars in sub zero temperatures all day long while holding stresses associated with a .308 locking bolt.
 
Saying that a firearm receiver needs 4340 over 4140 would be a stretch... unless you're shooting space aliens on Mars in sub zero temperatures all day long while holding stresses associated with a .308 locking bolt.
Click to expand...

Or running a 1911 factory where the philosophy is basically "no compromise" and "if you have to ask the price, you probably can't afford it". I know a few folks on NES have guns from this place.
 
I can get just about anything,but I have the ability to have it delivered,I had a customer that wanted 8 inches of Brass 2" roundstock to turn on a lathe...I had to buy 12 inches from the supplier and now have a 3" paperweight as I didn't want to charge the guy for it and he wanted it exactly 8 inches.
 
4340 has a little more carbon and molybdenum. 4140 will be a little easier to machine, 4340 can be through hardened. I doubt you would see much of a difference but 4340 could certainly also be used for a receiver.

Rob Boudrie said:
How would you say it compares to 4340?
Click to expand...
 
Rob Boudrie said:
Or running a 1911 factory where the philosophy is basically "no compromise" and "if you have to ask the price, you probably can't afford it". I know a few folks on NES have guns from this place.
Click to expand...

it really depends on the stresses involved with the gun. Not being that well versed in 1911 physics, I couldn't tell you if it was over engineering in a dumb or intelligent way.

Or maybe I can: being that the slide can move a lot on the receiver, I could tell you it's the hardness of the steel that is what would resist wear. So, if the factory was actually hardening the 4340 steel to a hardness that is impossible to bring 4140 to, then it'd be a well advised usage scenario (higher hardness = higher resistance to frictional wear). If they were hardening it to a level that is easily obtained by 4140? That's when you question the sanity of the shop. In that case, you'd hope they'd instead spend their energy finding steel suppliers that provide quality steel without impurities and that they spent their money on heat treating the steel to get the conditions optimal on a molecular level.
 
now that I think about how hard it is to source 4340, and that it's heat treating temperatures are generally lower than 4140, there is no way in hell that this shop would go through the trouble of sourcing it without bringing it up to a higher hardness rating.

This shop must be good shit.
 
njsteelbaron.com

ask for aldo and tell him i sent you. he's a steel junky and can get anything. great prices too.

FWIW general supply is a rip off.

oh yeah or admiral steel.com great company too
 
I've never built a frame or reciever, but I know that the dimensions change during heat treat. You may find good info on the Practical Machinist forum, there are some guys who have made receivers manually as well as small CNC. They even swap CNC programs there.
 

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