Where the hell is all the 223?

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I really wish I could kick all of these people freaking out right in the dick. So ****ing stupid. If only they spent this much energy telling the ATF where to stick it.
 

Varmint

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Ah someone who has some intelligence!!! The military is doing away with the m855 round and going to the M855A1 round. Everyone got use to buying the all that cheap government rejected M855 ammo from Lake City that they thought it was the norm and would last for ever!

Even if the BATF didn't decide to try to reclassify it AP, it would go away because it is going of of production/manufacturing for military use. No production....no rejected lots... no ammo to sell to the civilian market...

Anyway you cut it. say good bye to the cheap M855.

http://www.aschq.army.mil/ac/aais/i..._Caliber_Second_Source/634203275890625000.PDF

But then why is XM193 so cheap and plentiful, the military doesn't use that anymore either?
 
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So, the NATO round is no more, or the ability to get subsidized M855 is (potentially) no more?

The Government owns a small arms ammo manufacturing plant in Lake City Mo.

The Lake City Army Ammunition Plant is a government owned, contractor operated facility.

Lake City produces the majority of the M855 ammo used for the Military.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQquwkALxa4

When the LC contractor manufactures ammo for the military, they produce the ammo in "lots" of thousands of rounds.
When a lot is ready, the contractor submits the lot for government inspection/acceptance.
The Gov inspectors take a sample number of rounds from that lot and inspects those rounds for specific tests/performance/dimensions/etc.

If the lot is accepted it goes into military inventory...never to be seen or sold again.

If it rejected, then the contractor has all that money tied up in rejected lot and sells it to the civilian sector .
This is the green tip we have been getting for years!

( This is also the reason why the "exception" for the M885 and 193 was originally written into the regulation.... so the Gov could allow the contractor to sell off the ammo the government couldn't/didn't buy.)

Now that there is a new round... M855A1... into production, and the M855 is going out of production.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6sHW20WNNs

So less M855 production = less rejection= less M855 to the civilian market.

So in the near future....0 production = 0 rejection = 0 M855 to the civilian market.

Regardless of what the BATF does with its proposed changes, the M8555 is going away.

As for the M193....the M193 is the older version of 5.56 military ammo that is generally no longer in use in the US military but is still made by LC for non-NATO military use.
 
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The5thDentist

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Have to be careful with this type of thinking. The Gov't loves when we become complacent. A few "fake" panic buying situations gets some to think the next one will be more of the same. That's when they could actually throw a real situation at us that we ignore at our demise.

That's it. Being EVER VIGILANT requires responding and mobilizing to the false alarms as well as the real ones. Because really, there is no way to know for sure which is which.
 
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Here we go again. Ammo shortage time because of all the hoarders. I don't care about the green tip just leave the TulAmmo for me please. Thanks.
 
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With respect to the LC ammo get get being rejects, fine, I am not going to argue that point. Buthave any of you had serious issues with the ammo? I don't mean go scour the web for one of those 'someone's upper blew up' and you portray it like it happened to you. I mean seriously, it doesn't shoot, or it isn't accurate, etc.

I fired 'official' ammo out of beat up M-16's for a few years and got a hell of a lot more stovepipes and FtF's - probably because of the gun's condition - than I have firing the civilian available version out of a new, well maintained Windham for the last couple of years.

To be honest, as a former grunt, the idea that they were saving all the good ammo for me sounds kind of like a cruel joke. Especially since my MOS was to not get killed until the F-15's could nape the area.
 

SHOCKNAWE

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I was on Sportsmans guide website and picked up a case of 7.62 last week, I just got on yesterday and they are just about out of 5.56 and 7.62 freaking pisses me off.
 
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With respect to the LC ammo get get being rejects, fine, I am not going to argue that point. Buthave any of you had serious issues with the ammo? I don't mean go scour the web for one of those 'someone's upper blew up' and you portray it like it happened to you. I mean seriously, it doesn't shoot, or it isn't accurate, etc.

I fired 'official' ammo out of beat up M-16's for a few years and got a hell of a lot more stovepipes and FtF's - probably because of the gun's condition - than I have firing the civilian available version out of a new, well maintained Windham for the last couple of years.

To be honest, as a former grunt, the idea that they were saving all the good ammo for me sounds kind of like a cruel joke. Especially since my MOS was to not get killed until the F-15's could nape the area.

M855 "rejects" are fine to shoot. There are many reasons that an ammo "lot" may fail to pass the government inspection/acceptance test.

For example one test is how fast or slow the round leaves the test barrel after being fired. Some weapons are fired at full auto.... if one round is too slow and the other is too fast the two rounds could jam in the barrel and the third round blow up the weapon. This would be a reason for the government to reject the lot.

Now for 99.99% of us civilian shooter, this issue doesn't matter... its good to go/shoot.

Green paint missing or not uniform?? Another reason to reject the round and the lot!

The ammo has to hit a certain MOA at a certain distance.... if a certain number of the sample rounds don't make the required results the whole 20 to 100 thousand round lot is rejected.

Bottom line that the criteria used to accept/reject the M855 rounds is extremely tight and specific for its military use.

That M850 which is "rejected" for military use is more than fine for civilian use.
 
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The5thDentist

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M855 "rejects" are fine to shoot. There are many reasons that an ammo "lot" may fail to pass the government inspection/acceptance test.

For example one test is how fast or slow the round leaves the test barrel after being fired. Some weapons are fired at full auto.... if one round is too slow and the other is too fast the two rounds could jam in the barrel and the third round blow up the weapon. This would be a reason for the government to reject the lot.

Now for 99.99% of us civilian shooter, this issue doesn't matter... its good to go/shoot.

Green paint missing or not uniform?? Another reason to reject the round and the lot!

The ammo has to hit a certain MOA at a certain distance.... if a certain number of the sample rounds don't make the required results the whole 20 to 100 thousand round lot is rejected.

Bottom line that the criteria used to accept/reject the M855 rounds is extremely tight and specific for its military use.

That M850 which is "rejected" for military use is more than fine for civilian use.


Well it's good to know at least some folks in government know what they're doing and don't slack off. [thumbsup]

- - - Updated - - -

7.62???? FOR WHAT??? What is this, a general paranoia?

Did Obama say something really stupid in the last few days???
 
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It's people buying .223 and 5.56 while the price is what it is, in case the M855 ban goes through and prices spike due to low supply. Admittedly I ordered 500 rounds of 5.56 while the price was low, just in case the prices spike.

Edit: Also, so far I've not been seeing a noteworthy shortage. It's still available if you want it.
 

SHOCKNAWE

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- - - Updated - - -

7.62???? FOR WHAT??? What is this, a general paranoia?

Did Obama say something really stupid in the last few days???

I only shoot 7.62 thats why, and it looks like people are buying up all that shit too. I never buy rounds for any gun that I dont have if thats what you were implying? I got a stash of 7.62 mainly because of this BS winter we have had I havnt been to the range in months, I picked up the case because I KNOW that for the time being the stuff will be hard to come by. I still say weather the storm it will pass soon enough in my opinion.
 

Varmint

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The Government owns a small arms ammo manufacturing plant in Lake City Mo.

The Lake City Army Ammunition Plant is a government owned, contractor operated facility.

Lake City produces the majority of the M855 ammo used for the Military.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQquwkALxa4

When the LC contractor manufactures ammo for the military, they produce the ammo in "lots" of thousands of rounds.
When a lot is ready, the contractor submits the lot for government inspection/acceptance.
The Gov inspectors take a sample number of rounds from that lot and inspects those rounds for specific tests/performance/dimensions/etc.

If the lot is accepted it goes into military inventory...never to be seen or sold again.

If it rejected, then the contractor has all that money tied up in rejected lot and sells it to the civilian sector .
This is the green tip we have been getting for years!

( This is also the reason why the "exception" for the M885 and 193 was originally written into the regulation.... so the Gov could allow the contractor to sell off the ammo the government couldn't/didn't buy.)

Now that there is a new round... M855A1... into production, and the M855 is going out of production.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6sHW20WNNs

So less M855 production = less rejection= less M855 to the civilian market.

So in the near future....0 production = 0 rejection = 0 M855 to the civilian market.

Regardless of what the BATF does with its proposed changes, the M8555 is going away.

As for the M193....the M193 is the older version of 5.56 military ammo that is generally no longer in use in the US military but is still made by LC for non-NATO military use.

This doesn't make sense to me, because (a) it's unlikely there's enough failed M855 to cover the civilian demand, so they must be making some M855 specifically for civilians (and could continue doing that). and (b) they're obviously making M193 just for civilians, why can't they do the same for M855?
 

Varmint

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M855 "rejects" are fine to shoot. There are many reasons that an ammo "lot" may fail to pass the government inspection/acceptance test.

For example one test is how fast or slow the round leaves the test barrel after being fired. Some weapons are fired at full auto.... if one round is too slow and the other is too fast the two rounds could jam in the barrel and the third round blow up the weapon. This would be a reason for the government to reject the lot.

Now for 99.99% of us civilian shooter, this issue doesn't matter... its good to go/shoot.

Green paint missing or not uniform?? Another reason to reject the round and the lot!

The ammo has to hit a certain MOA at a certain distance.... if a certain number of the sample rounds don't make the required results the whole 20 to 100 thousand round lot is rejected.

Bottom line that the criteria used to accept/reject the M855 rounds is extremely tight and specific for its military use.

That M850 which is "rejected" for military use is more than fine for civilian use.

After so many years of manufacturing M855, I bet they have the process down pretty well, and don't have so many failures. I bet a lot of civilian M855 would pass military spec, though they probably don't test the civilian-destined stuff as thoroughly.
 

StevieP

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Any lack of .223 on the shelves is at least partially due to people going to the stores looking for M855, and, finding none, buying some of whatever IS on the shelf, even if they don't "need" it.

Or, because capitalism.
 
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Any lack of .223 on the shelves is at least partially due to people going to the stores looking for M855, and, finding none, buying some of whatever IS on the shelf, even if they don't "need" it.

Or, because capitalism.
I think it's more a case of full-on neckbearding. Even online, .223 has mostly evaporated, and when it does show up, it's expensive. Once the 855 discussion got attention from the media, it created another panic.
 

KMM696

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I think this would be a good time to point out that under 10 U.S. Code § 4553 - Armament Retooling and Manufacturing Support Initiative, the contractor running Lake City is allowed by contract (W52P1J-12-D-0078 - Attachment 17) to use plant capacity in excess of the DoD's ammo needs for commercial production, shifting plant costs partially onto the commercial product line, saving (in theory) the DoD money maintaining a production line that might not be fully utilized fulfilling DoD purchase orders.

So, while ATK certainly could be selling QC failed Lake City ammo commercially, they also (within the restrictions of the contract and FARs) can produce LC direct for the consumer market.
 

scatter

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No 556/223 for plinking down here at Walmart Roanoke. Just a few boxes of match stuff and ultra-expensive self defense rounds. The case of Federal XM193 bulk that I bought from Natchez about two weeks ago for $339 is now listed for $399 and out of stock.
 

Bt74

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Where is the .223? Hidden under the counter at the Salem NH WalMart!

Ammo-can has shown Fed 100 ct at Salem NH for the past 3 days, but the little weasel working SG claims they don't have any.
 
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