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Where does it stop??

I have an idea, If people really want to protest the American dollar. Stop using our currency. Give all your money back to the government with a note saying you are not going to use the money anymore. Tell them that your God or lack their of says not to use it because it offends you/it.
 
Some people just don't have enough to keep themselves busy. Who friggin' cares what it says on a dollar bill?

Why doesn't he just make every purchase with a debit card? Then he won't have to look at currency.
 
[twisted] [twisted] [twisted]

People like this really NEED to get a freeking life! Get the F over it!!! It's always been this way - accept it and move the hell on. Stick your thumb back in your mouth and go sulk quietly somewhere. [roll]
 
I just saw a story on Fox about some fruit loop who is demanding that Las Cruces, NM remove the crosses from their city emblem (which would cost taxpayers over $100K to do, what with stationary, emblems on vehicles, etc.). He said it makes him a "second-class citizen". If he gets away with it (like the bunch in Los Angeles did), then we should insist that places like Las Cruces, Providence, St Augustine, Santa Fe, San Francisco, Los Angeles, San Diego, Santa Barbara, and all the rest change their names as well. Jeeeeez, guys. Here's a nickel, now why don't you buy a clue.

9th_circuit.jpg


Ken
 
All this BS reminds me of a petition of some sorts a few years ago where the Hispanic population in Lynn wanted to have the name of the city changed to some assinine name like San Miquel de la Lynn or something, that got shot down in a big hurry [wink] :)
 
Next thing you know, this bonehead will demand that we modify our National Anthem!!

Then conquer we must, for our cause is just,
And this be our motto--"In God is our trust."
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.
 
i dont understand the problem with the word GOD..
its the most non-specific non-denominational word once can choose. and suprisingly so for the times it was coined!
it doesnt say "in jesus we trust" , its generic, it allows for anyone to <insert their deity> here.. and for atheists that can be magic fuc%ing crystals in the moonlight :p

god means
A powerful ruler or despot.
by the merriam webster dictionary.

So If it ever truly becomes threatened a slick lawyer should argue that by that definition it refers to the president of the United States and that its in our president, that we trust... fight bs with bs [twisted]
 
In the long run, it is a waste of time, but the First Amendment says what it says just like the second. I freely admit that one's energy could be better spent on other things, but it wasn't always this way.

In God We Trust was only added to paper currency within my lifetime just as the statement "Under God" was added to the Pledge of Allegiance in about 1954. The official motto of the United States which one finds on the front of the Great Seal of the United States is "e plurbus unum" which as we all know means: out of many, one. Now the reverse of the seal does have the all seeing eye of God and the unfinished pyramid, and yes these do have Masonic connotations.

It is also true that the third verse of the Star Spangled Banner, the so-called military verse contains the words "in this be our motto, in God is our Trust"....there is no denying it.

BUT....we live in a different time and place than our predominantely Protestant Christian antecedents, so maybe it's better just to leave God or any reference to God off of our money.

When I was kid and Boy Scout the view of religious tolerance was promoted and God was kind of generic much in the deist tradition of the 18th Century Enlightment. As a Freemason, pretty much the same concept is presented.

So why the big bru-ha-ha ? Well, it seems like along the way God got appropriated by some folks and became a little exclusive....when we had a consensus culture, and more people agreed that God was a good idea in whatever version people prayed to him/her/it today...but today a lot of people don't believe or simply don't care....and our vision of things change too. If those, who are strict constructionalists of the Constitution were to reflect for a moment, then only white males would be able to vote and then only for representatives, no direct election of senators.

So to keep Peace, let's just stick with Amendment Numero Uno for what it is...religion should be taught in the home and if it is not, then it is not my problem or yours...besides as the man said "In God we Trust, all others pay cash"

Respectfully,

Mark
 
Well, time for my $.05 worth.

The words "In God We Trust" does not IMNSHO violate the First Ammendment. The simple fact is that it doesn't constitute an "Official" Religion for the country. I have no problem with it, myself, and most of you know what religion (or lack thereof) I am.

I AM against some organizations that discriminate against certain religions or lack there of. Boy Scouts is one of them. Try to join, and have an Atheist for a father. Won't happen, if they know about it. The Masonic Lodge is another of those organizations. Atheist? Not and be a Mason.

And don't misunderstand, they're both fine organizations. They just won't allow Atheists in.

Just for sake of conversation, what would happen to them if they excluded "African-Americans", Hispanics or Jews?

People like this Jerk Off give some of us Atheists a bad name. He and his kind gets us treated as the most down trodden minority in the country. And we have ZERO recourse. But, I'm not complaining, it's not my loss, it's the organizations that exclude that lose.
 
mark056 said:
Now the reverse of the seal does have the all seeing eye of God and the unfinished pyramid, and yes these do have Masonic connotations.

No, they do not. In spite of what Disney says in National Treasure. There was a nice writeup about it in the MSA's Short Talk bulletins, and you can find a copy of it here.

mark056 said:
It is also true that the third verse of the Star Spangled Banner, the so-called military verse contains the words "in this be our motto, in God is our Trust"....there is no denying it.

Fourth verse.

Oh! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
Between their loved homes and the war's desolation,
Blest with vict'ry and peace, may the Heav'n - rescued land
Praise the Pow'r that hath made and preserved us a nation.

Then conquer we must, for our cause is just,
And this be our motto--"In God is our trust."
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

The third verse is one that was not sung during WWII so as not to offend our British allies, and it goes like this:

And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion
A home and a country should leave us no more?
Their blood has washed out their foul footstep's pollution.

No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave,
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.
 
Nickle said:
I AM against some organizations that discriminate against certain religions or lack there of. Boy Scouts is one of them. Try to join, and have an Atheist for a father. Won't happen, if they know about it. The Masonic Lodge is another of those organizations. Atheist? Not and be a Mason.

Very true, Nickle.

Why, you may ask? Simply this: We are a group of religious men. Belief in a Supreme Being is a central part of Masonry.

We don't care WHAT religion our brothers are, if any at all. We simply require that you do believe in G-d. We welcome all variety of Christians, Jews, Muslims, etc. I personally know at least 2 Wiccan Masons, and one Mason who calls G-d by the name Odin. I know Masons who do not attend church/temple on any kind of a regular basis at all... but they believe in G-d. By whatever name they use.

Ross
 
Yup, I do know the legit work around that one, should I endeavour to become a Mason.

I believe the correct term isn't "God", but "Supreme Being".

And as you well know, but, so others know, I have a lot of respect for the Freemasonry. A stand up bunch of folks that give back to the community.

Boy Scouts do as well, but not like they used to.

Again, I'm not bitching, just stating facts.

And that clown is still a jerk for trying to manipulate society.
 
Nickle said:
Yup, I do know the legit work around that one, should I endeavour to become a Mason.

I believe the correct term isn't "God", but "Supreme Being".

?? I have no idea what you're saying. The actual question I ask a candidate is: "Do you believe in a Supreme Being?"

If he says yes, I ask if he's over 18. From there, I hand him an application. We'll find out if he's "of good report" from his references and from when the investigation committee talks to him.

No "work-around" needed.
 
Ross,

Kindly re-read my quote. I said that it had Masonic connotations. I did not say that it was a Masonic symbol...and no as much as I like the movie National Treasure, I didn't get that tidbit from the movie.

Here is the simple fact that is well illustrated in the most excellent article that you referred to me (and for which I am grateful). In the 18th Century allegorical symbolism was to be found in many places, and the fact that it the all seeing eye was used by Freemasons and others displays a degree of consensus. Frankly, I think the author of the article is really bending over backwards to disavow a Masonic connection, probably to deflect criticism by the nut jobs that think we are secret minions of the New World Order bent on making the world the purview of the Tri-Lateral Commission, the Bilderbergers, the Rockefellers, The Vatican and of course the international Jewish/Communist conspiracy, which would be humorous if people didn't actually believe in that crap.

As for your assertion regarding the Star Spangled Banner, you are correct and I can only offer a mea culpa. For pennance I would listen to Roseanne Barr Arnold's putrified attempt to sing it at a ball game, if I had a video or a recording of said exhibition (performance would be too kind a word). You should be commended for knowing your verses and count yoruself amongst the few and proud who actually know that the National Anthem of the United States has more than one verse.

I thought Nickle had some fine points about athiests. Not all Masonic Lodges exclude athiests. Belief in no deity, from what I understand from my meagre study, does not disqualify one from becoming a member of the Grand Orient Lodge in France, and I believe that there may also be some other Masonic bodies in Europe where athiests are allowed as well. I am sure there are those who read this board who can confirm that or tell me that I am full of baked beans.

I never 'got" the exclusion of athiests from the Scouting Movement per se. I know too, that people were excluded from Scout troops in my youth for racial or religious reasons (usually when a troop was sponsored by a church for religious reasons, although that wasn't true of all church sponsored troops and for racial reasons due to geographical location or demographic strata). But then, both the Masons and the Scouts are private organizations, although the Scouts are federally chartered.

This whole problem of something as trivial as having "In God We Trust" on money only serves to illustrate the problems of not having a "consensus" culture. With the exception of perhaps the Swiss, no multi-lingual nation has seemed to fare well. The only nations with truly diverse populations have been empires, and none of them have lasted. The problems in Western Europe today (not just France) clearly demonstrate that a degree of cultural consensus is necessary for a country to be viable and healthy. This is less defined by race than by heritage. America always thought of itself as a melting pot, until recently, and now it is more like a tossed salad...diversity may be grand...but in the long run will it be that which dooms us ? How free can we be, before we split at the seams ?

Regards,

Mark
 
"Yeah, Wiccans fit right in - we belive in multiple Higher Powers"

Can one be a Wiccan if one owns mulitple Browning Hi-Powers :D ?

(a big mea culpa for that too, I couldn't resist)

Respectfully,

Mark
 
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