Where Can You Carry/Not-Carry Concealed in MA?

[FPrice]

I've done a brief search and have been unable to locate any thread which discusses this issue.

My question is simply: Is there any Mass GL which states where you cannot carry concealed in this Commonwealth?

 

[Len-2A Training]

I don't have time to look it up (and thought it has been repeated here at least once in some thread or other), but yes, there is only ONE such law.

You can not legally carry/possess a gun on school (including everything up thru college) property unless LE or with written permission of the head of the school/college. This included possession of OC/Mace/ammo under that same law.

No place else is banned by statute. [Although you will hear all sorts of cockamamie stories of banks, places that serve alcohol, municipal buildings, etc. being spouted off.]

Any place with security at the door can ban you from entering with anything that they want, but that doesn't make it a law.

From a practical matter, you won't be able to carry anything into SOME courthouses (some have no security), jails/prisons, some Federal buildings, some municipal buildings (some that have security).

 

[FPrice]

I looked it up and this is it:

CHAPTER 269. CRIMES AGAINST PUBLIC PEACE

Chapter 269: Section 10 Carrying dangerous weapons; possession of machine gun or sawed-off shotguns; possession of large capacity weapon or large capacity feeding device; punishment

(j) Whoever, not being a law enforcement officer, and notwithstanding any license obtained by him under the provisions of chapter one hundred and forty, carries on his person a firearm as hereinafter defined, loaded or unloaded or other dangerous weapon in any building or on the grounds of any elementary or secondary school, college or university without the written authorization of the board or officer in charge of such elementary or secondary school, college or university shall be punished by a fine of not more than one thousand dollars or by imprisonment for not more than one year, or both. For the purpose of this paragraph, ""firearm'' shall mean any pistol, revolver, rifle or smoothbore arm from which a shot, bullet or pellet can be discharged by whatever means.

Federal prohibitions would not be in State laws of course. As an example Westover ARB does not allow CCW (although you can bring weapons on base IF you declare them and bring them to the SFS armory immediately.

So I guess this is one of the few areas in which Massachusetts is not so bad. But it begs some interesting questions, such as, how is CCW in banks looked upon? If you do it properly though, no one would ever know.

 

[Admin]

how is CCW in banks looked upon? If you do it properly though, no one would ever know.

Exactly. Just don't attempt to prevent a robbery. [shock]

 

[Len-2A Training]

how is CCW in banks looked upon? If you do it properly though, no one would ever know.

Exactly. Just don't attempt to prevent a robbery. [shock]

Derek is right. I asked and got this reply from my DA (after a bank robbery happened at my bank). You will likely be arrested, persecuted and lose your LTC permanently (suitability).

 

[MikeD]

Derek is right. I asked and got this reply from my DA (after a bank robbery happened at my bank). You will likely be arrested, persecuted and lose your LTC permanently (suitability).

It's for reasons like this that I don't involve myself in any type of heroics. I carry a pistol for my protection,not for the protection of the general public..that's left to the people we hire as LEO's. In this $hithole of a state,it's difficult enough getting a LTC-A,why would I jeopardize having my license revoked,being arrested just to be heroic. :? If I didn't live in this state,maybe I would think differently. Sorry if I sound so hard,but that's the way it is here.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Derek is right. I asked and got this reply from my DA (after a bank robbery happened at my bank). You will likely be arrested, persecuted and lose your LTC permanently (suitability).

It's for reasons like this that I don't involve myself in any type of heroics. I carry a pistol for my protection,not for the protection of the general public..that's left to the people we hire as LEO's. In this $hithole of a state,it's difficult enough getting a LTC-A,why would I jeopardize having my license revoked,being arrested just to be heroic. :? If I didn't live in this state,maybe I would think differently. Sorry if I sound so hard,but that's the way it is here.

Mike, you are right. I am LE, at least according to MGLs, but I am not a member of the PD (see my post in last day or two on Constables) and I asked due to the robbery of my CU only 2 hours before I was in there to make a deposit. They have no bullet-proof glass there, glass only goes to 5' from floor so it is no hurdle to hurt a teller. Being a small town and small town bank, I know most of the employees from the president (he's a shooter) and many BOD members (including our DA) down to the tellers and I'd feel bad if any one of them got hurt.

Nevertheless, the words were very clear. Draw your gun and you are going to lose everything you own and perhaps your freedom (for longer than the bank robber)!

So, I'm a witness, that's all!

 

[FPrice]

Nevertheless, the words were very clear. Draw your gun and you are going to lose everything you own and perhaps your freedom (for longer than the bank robber)!

So, I'm a witness, that's all!

I think the only exception to this would be if the robber started shooting people, i.e., getting rid of witnesses. Or herding everyone into a back room and telling them to lay face down on the floor. At that point the gun would have to come out.

 

[Adam_MA]

I think the only exception to this would be if the robber started shooting people, i.e., getting rid of witnesses. Or herding everyone into a back room and telling them to lay face down on the floor. At that point the gun would have to come out.

Agreed! In that case... Keep or lose your license, you are saving your OWN life!

Adam

 

[dwarven1]

Nevertheless, the words were very clear. Draw your gun and you are going to lose everything you own and perhaps your freedom (for longer than the bank robber)!

So, I'm a witness, that's all!

I think the only exception to this would be if the robber started shooting people, i.e., getting rid of witnesses. Or herding everyone into a back room and telling them to lay face down on the floor. At that point the gun would have to come out.

At that point, I'd think that you were in fear for your own life. I don't see where you'd have any choice. But I don't think that many bank robbers do that kind of movie sh*t, do they? Only one I can think of offhand was that one in LA where they were hopped up, armored up, and shooting cops with class III weapons.

 

[KMaurer]

A couple of years ago, my mother-in-law asked me to make a deposit for her and get some cash at the bank. I was finishing a report, so I waited about 10 minutes before doing it. When I got to the bank (about 1 mile down the road from our house) it was closed and surrounded by a half dozen police cars. When I went back the next day, the teller told me that they'd had a robbery about 5 minutes before I got there. If I hadn't waited to finish the report, I'd have been standing right behind the guy in line.

Given the reality of life in the People's Republic, I'm really glad that I took the time so that I didn't have to decide on the spot. Yeah, stopping the guy would likely have caused me problems, although I seriously doubt my chief would have pulled my LTC. OTOH, standing there with a loaded gun under my coat and doing nothing would have resulted in a lot of problems as well. That's just the way I was raised, and there's nothing I can do about it after all these years. They only way anybody robs a bank is by threatening the safety others, and that's not something I'm comfortable allowing in my presence. YMMV, but my self respect and psychological well being is at least as important to me as my financial status. As I said, I'm glad I didn't have to decide, but have a strong hunch what the outcome would have been. (Anybody who hasn't been there and thinks they know for certain what they'd do is just deluding themselves.)

Ken

 

[Chris]

One note on the school property thing in MA...

Law says "On your person". Even Ron Glidden in his book mentions that a gun properly stored in the vehicle is OK. Just don't drive onto school property and then unholster and unload.

In Massachusetts, protection of property is ILLEGAL. A bank robery is the theft of property. Regardless that some people get their LTC because they "carry large sums of money", the defense of that money is illegal, only the defense of their life if it is threatened to the point that Deadly Force is warrented.

If you don't understand the point in which a gun can be used, PLEASE get some training.

Point to ponder...

If someone walks in your open door, grabs your TV and walks away with it making no forced entry, and no threat to you, by law, you may not touch that person. In the liberal state of Massachusetts (and I suspect in many other states as well) if you attack the thief, you will be guilty of assault and battery. You may not defend property with force.

Now, it is likely that you won't get prosecuted, that's up to the DA. Just like the pharmacist that fired 'warning shots' was not charged. (warning shots are illegal)

You need to learn the level of force that must be presented before you may return force as a defense and legally call it self-defense.

 

[Admin]

When I said "Don't try and stop a robbery". I was referring to pulling your firearm on the robber in front of you only to be shot in the back by his partner who is waiting by the door looking like a regular customer.

This scenario has happened more than once to people attempting to stop a robbery.

 

[KMaurer]

You're right, Derek. Target fixation is a natural reaction, and you need to practice breaking it and scanning the area. In an ideal world, you'll have the time to do this, as well as locate and move to cover before having to present your firearm, but the real world doesn't always work that way. Like most other things that makes sense when you sit down and think them through, there's absolutely no chance of actually acting that way under pressure unless you've practiced it a couple of thousand times before.

Ken

 

[Admin]

scanning the area. In an ideal world, you'll have the time to do this, as well as locate and move to cover before having to present your firearm
Ken

That is the key, determining when the best time to present while keeping yourself as safe as possible.

 

[FPrice]

This scenario has happened more than once to people attempting to stop a robbery.

Most of the bank robberies I have read about in Massachusetts "seem" to be of the variety where the robber quietly presents a note, gets the money and leaves. At least they don't report anything like the Hollywood version, come in yelling and/or shooting.

Derek's point about the possibility of a second person just standing and watching for trouble brings up a good point.

It's a tough call but if no one is in imminent danger, standing quietly and being a good witness may be the better part of valor.

 

[Adam_MA]

If someone walks in your open door, grabs your TV and walks away with it making no forced entry, and no threat to you, by law, you may not touch that person. In the liberal state of Massachusetts (and I suspect in many other states as well) if you attack the thief, you will be guilty of assault and battery. You may not defend property with force.

So after you beat the snot out of the TV snatcher, hit your head against the wall a couple of times... Say he did it to you when you stood up and told him to get out of your house...

That's what I'd do! [twisted]

Adam

 

[FPrice]

That's what I'd do!

I have no personal experience with this mind you. But from what I have read in many other discussions the worst thing to do in a situation like this is to "manufacture" evidence and lie to the cops.

I'd rather say that (honestly) from the guy's behavior I was afraid for my safety and tried to stop him and the fight ensued.

 

[FPrice]

edited to add:

Of course, if the guy was much bigger than me I'd probably ask him if I could hold the door open for him.

[lol]

 

[Len-2A Training]

Outside Downtown Boston with some old banks having real pillars in the public area, there is NO cover or barriers in any of the modern day banks I've walked in over the past 30 years!

You'd be a sitting duck behind regular plate glass "walls" for the best cover available!

Yes, most bank robbers work in pairs, one as a spotter from behind while the other does the dirty work. Start looking around or moving for cover and you are likely to catch a bullet from the BG behind you.

Very tough situation!

Best only to get involved when there is NO other alternative . . . i.e. your life is being threatened. And that doesn't happen in almost any real bank robberies (outside Hollyweird).

 

[matt]

I know I'm a new guy here, but isn't this what home owners or renters insurance is for?

If someone walks in your open door, grabs your TV and walks away with it making no forced entry, and no threat to you, by law, you may not touch that person.

I'm with the guy who asks "can I hold the door for you"?

 

[JonJ]

Most of the bank robberies I have read about in Massachusetts "seem" to be of the variety where the robber quietly presents a note, gets the money and leaves. At least they don't report anything like the Hollywood version, come in yelling and/or shooting.

Derek's point about the possibility of a second person just standing and watching for trouble brings up a good point.

It's a tough call but if no one is in imminent danger, standing quietly and being a good witness may be the better part of valor.

And most customers and other tellers DO NOT know that a robbery is in progress. It's not until the perp walks out the door that the teller freaks out and the alarm is sounded or phone call made.

 

[drgrant]

When I said "Don't try and stop a robbery". I was referring to pulling your firearm on the robber in front of you only to be shot in the back by his partner who is waiting by the door looking like a regular customer.

This scenario has happened more than once to people attempting to stop a robbery.

It just isn't worth it.... Most bank robberies are simplistic and non
dramatic. It's usually some guy or lady with a demand note and
a bag. They may not even have a real weapon. )

Doesn't matter what state I'm in, but im not going to draw unless my life
is threatened directly or they start hurting people... cause most of the
time, they're just going to get some money and leave. It's better to
let the police deal with it, if we possibly can.

-Mike

 

[M1911]

I know I'm a new guy here, but isn't this what home owners or renters insurance is for?

What's the deductible on your home owner's insurance? $1000?

How many hours of an attorney's time will $1000 buy you? 3? 4?

 

[NH40VE]

What's the deductible on your home owner's insurance? $1000?

How many hours of an attorney's time will $1000 buy you? 3? 4?

shoot,mine's only $100 bucks and i'm covered for $20,000 in loss.

ok back on subject...

http://www.packing.org/state/new_hampshire/#stateoff_limits

here in NH.of what i've read,on the places that "conceal carry" is not allowed is court houses along with any place that is used in junction with court houses.it doesn't say anything about school zones,hospitals,etc

i do know that i wouldn't even think of carrying at work (manchester airport-baggage handler there)

were would i look to find out where else is off limits?

(without making me look suspicious,like walking up to a police officer on the street)

 

[Len-2A Training]

If it isn't in the LAW (RSA) then it is legal to carry anywhere else.

NEVER ask a cop on the street about the law . . . if you really want to know what it is! No cop I know knows all the laws, and many will "make something up" when put on the spot with such a question (even though they may be convinced that they are right).

Some examples from real life:

- Cop comes into PD and starts ranting about a "Camp Bus" that he just blew past (it was picking up/discharging kids and had red lights flashing). Officer stated that the School Bus Law doesn't apply to "Camp Buses"! Knowing this officer well, I just keep my mouth shut and when I return home call a Deputy Chief Inspector at RMV (my Ch. 90 instructor at the police academy a few years earlier). He gives me cite and explains that Camp Buses are covered under the same MGL as School Buses. Cop was wrong!

- Many, many years ago I had to go into Logan Airport to pickup my Mother-in-Law coming in from Florida. I called the number for MSP at Logan, spoke with a very helpful Trooper about how to deal with my CCW while going to the gate to pick her up. He told me to explain to the MSP Trooper at the security checkpoint (this was ~25 years ago) that I was carrying and ask him to hold the gun for me (something that a lawyer friend did all the time). When I do as I was told the Trooper at the security checkpoint keeps asking me if I'm LE and I explain "No" (not at that time), he then "informs me" that it was illegal to have any firearms on ANY MASSPORT PROPERTY at any time, for any reason! He refused to hold the gun and refers me to the Desk Sgt at the Turret. Since Massport manages the tunnels and bridges (Mystic River Bridge) and I believe the Mass Turnpike (not 100% on that one), this would be quite a handicap if true. NOBODY has ever been able to confirm this, point to a law or reg about this or even has a clue where this Trooper came up with this "pronouncement"! Trooper was wrong.

- I asked a number of our town's officers to check on "Left on Red After Stop" legality for me after getting some info that implied that this might indeed be legal on two intersecting one-way streets. Even our PD Ch. 90 expert (extremely knowledgeable and a personal friend) had never heard of it! [My former RMV expert was retired by then.] Well here it is, and it is indeed legal. MGL Ch. 89 S. 8 http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/89-8.htm If you are going to do this, better keep a printout handy. A fellow Constable in Chicopee got pulled over for doing this and had to prove it to the cop. I watched someone do this in Brockton center a few months ago and get pulled over and ticketed. Again cops were wrong.

If you want to know about the law, you need to pour thru the law books or get the info (with citations) from a lawyer. Cops are not lawyers even though they are expected to know some laws that they commonly deal with. There aren't a ton of places in MA where things like Left on Red would be legal, so many don't have a need to know.

Ok, so much for the sermon . . . I'll step off my soapbox now.

 

[Adam_MA]

Funny thing about the left on red... It is in the drivers manual that you can pick up at the RMV. A few years ago, I worked in S. Boston. I happened to have the manual in my truck with me, because I was going to take the motorcycle test in another month. So I did the left on red, in front of a cop, and got pulled over. He proceeded to hit me with a lovely string of colorful expletives. I just kept a smile on my face, and when he asked me for my license and registration, I handed them to him. He came back with a ticket in his hand, and I asked him to please read the section in the book I had conveniently opened for him. WOW he sure got red in the face when I took my license and registration back from him, and explained that I would be more than happy to pick up another book for myself, because he needed to read through it as well.

Adam

 

[Coyote33]

... check on "Left on Red After Stop" legality for me after getting some info that implied that this might indeed be legal on two intersecting one-way streets. ... Well here it is, and it is indeed legal. MGL Ch. 89 S. 8 http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/89-8.htm If you are going to do this, better keep a printout handy....

... There aren't a ton of places in MA where things like Left on Red would be legal, so many don't have a need to know....

I know of signs that say "left turn on red after full stop" and "no left turn on red", so it isn't as obscure as suggested.

 

[Len-2A Training]

When I first asked the question in MA it was very obscure!

Other than big cities, there aren't many places where this is applicable, so many LEOs aren't aware of it. The last copy of the Drivers Manual that most folks ever see is the one they use to study for their tests! Another reason that I'm all for re-testing every so-many years for everyone as the rules change and many are not aware of it!

 

[KMaurer]

So, Adam, how many mechanical violations did he eventually find on your car, and how many hours did it take?

Ken