Where can I and can I not carry?

[Starface33]

Yes, I did read the sticky regarding this issue. However, my fiancé thinks that its wrong. Does anyone have the exact law as it is written? With his issues, he was required to take an NRA safety course and in the course they are telling him it is absolutely illegal to carry in a store that has signage saying you can't carry. I believe that to be untrue but I can't find the law that specifically says so. Any help? Thanks!

 

[mothybee]

I'm no lawyer but, depends state to state.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Some states have "binding signage" laws. MA is not one of them.

The areas codified in statute are school propertly (MGL 169-10j) and on the surface of the ocean within 500ft of the Logan airport. There are some CMRs providing for a very minor penalty for carrying in the non-sterile part of the airport.

Plus, of course, all federally prohibited places (federal buildings, post orifices)

There are some game laws about being afield with a gun in game areas ("where birds and mammals may be found") and no, humans are not mammals under that section of the law.

Couorthouses and the statehouse are administratively prohibited, however, there is no specific law (in the case of courthouses, you might be violating a judge's order by sneaking a gun in).

There is no "alcohol premises ban" in MA, but everywhere is prohibited if you are "under the influence of alcohol".

 

[MisterHappy]

You may lawfully carry anyplace that you are not prohibited: Federal buildings (including the post office); schools; most state courthouses.

There is no "binding signage" law - if a sign says "no gunz", and they find out that you're carrying, they can ask you to leave. If you don't you can be charged with Trespassing.

Whenever someone says, "That law says....," I reply, "Cite, please?"

Laws, (in general) prohibit, they don't permit. You will find no law that says, " You can ignore the sign."

RB beat me by seconds.

 

[IPSC_DRL]

In MA (where you live based on your profile) that is absolutely NOT TRUE.

Wow! You guys are quick. Mike and Rob beat me to the finer points. The amount of bad info "instructors" give out is very troubling.

 

[Starface33]

I'm no lawyer but, depends state to state.

Well being in the MA laws forum I'm talking about MA, I don't care about any other state.

I get that if you are detected and asked to leave you should but I'm saying that it is not illegal to enter a dicks sporting goods carrying even though they don't want you to

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In MA (where you live based on your profile) that is absolutely NOT TRUE.

Do you know the exact law that says so?

 

[MisterHappy]

Well being in the MA laws forum I'm talking about MA, I don't care about any other state.

I get that if you are detected and asked to leave you should but I'm saying that it is not illegal to enter a dicks sporting goods carrying even though they don't want you to

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Do you know the exact law that says so?

that's it.

 

[Chet0729]

I believe the worst that can happen if you go into a store or business with a sign and you get caught they can ask you to leave. if you dont leave I think it is considered trespassing.

 

[bigblue]

Well being in the MA laws forum I'm talking about MA, I don't care about any other state.

I get that if you are detected and asked to leave you should but I'm saying that it is not illegal to enter a dicks sporting goods carrying even though they don't want you to

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Do you know the exact law that says so?

Laws prohibit. What is not prohibited by laws is legal. Therefore, you will not find a law that says "you can legally carry your gun here, here, and here."

This is a fundamental concept that people need to grasp and most do not.

 

[IPSC_DRL]

Well being in the MA laws forum I'm talking about MA, I don't care about any other state.

I get that if you are detected and asked to leave you should but I'm saying that it is not illegal to enter a dicks sporting goods carrying even though they don't want you to

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Do you know the exact law that says so?

Rob and Mike covered it and Rob cited the MA statute. No law generally says "you can do this", they all stipulate what you cannot do.

Also, I have lived here all my life and have never seen or heard of any private establishment posting such.

 

[M1911]

in the course they are telling him it is absolutely illegal to carry in a store that has signage saying you can't carry. I believe that to be untrue but I can't find the law that specifically says so. Any help? Thanks!

1) They are wrong.
2) You won't find a law that says "it is legal to carry in a store which has a 'no guns' sign". Laws generally aren't enacted that say "it is legal to do X." Instead, laws are generally written that say "it is illegal to do Y."

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Do you know the exact law that says so?

Can you please point me to the law that says I can wear a purple shirt on Thursdays?

 

[Starface33]

Thank you all for your input, but I'm looking for the exact chapter and whatever number because "this guy on NES said..." is not going to satisfy him lol


sorry to seem difficult, but its one of those gray areas that its he said she said

 

[M1911]

Some states have "binding signage" laws. MA is not one of them.

The areas codified in statute are school propertly (MGL 169-10j) .

Rob meant MGL Chapter 269 Section 10 paragraph j:

Whoever, not being a law enforcement officer and notwithstanding any license obtained by the person pursuant to chapter 140, carries on the person a firearm, loaded or unloaded, or other dangerous weapon in any building or on the grounds of any elementary or secondary school, college or university without the written authorization of the board or officer in charge of the elementary or secondary school, college or university shall be punished by a fine of not more than $1,000 or by imprisonment for not more than 2 years or both. A law enforcement officer may arrest without a warrant and detain a person found carrying a firearm in violation of this paragraph.

full text here: https://malegislature.gov/laws/generallaws/partiv/titlei/chapter269/section10

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Thank you all for your input, but I'm looking for the exact chapter and whatever number because "this guy on NES said..." is not going to satisfy him lol

As I mentioned, you won't find it. What you are asking for is similar to asking for the law that says it is OK to walk on property that is not marked "no trespassing."

 

[bigblue]

Thank you all for your input, but I'm looking for the exact chapter and whatever number because "this guy on NES said..." is not going to satisfy him lol

I don't think you understand what we are saying: There is no law to point to that says you can carry in dicks.

The law does not work that way.

 

[PATRON]

He said DICK.

 

[IPSC_DRL]

I don't think you understand what we are saying: There is no law to point to that says you can carry in dicks.

Just one Dick saying you can't.


Do they actually have a sign like that at a store? Maybe I've just never paid any attention to it, like most signs.....................

Cue the five man electrical band. Sign, sign, everywhere a sign.

 

[bigblue]

I went in last night bc they had a good amount of .22 and there were plenty of Dicks just none willing to help so I walked out.

Yes I was carrying; no I don't care what their signage says.

I would rather go to Cabela's all day but this is half an hour closer to my house.

 

[MisterHappy]

Thank you all for your input, but I'm looking for the exact chapter and whatever number because "this guy on NES said..." is not going to satisfy him lol


sorry to seem difficult, but its one of those gray areas that its he said she said

It's only a gray area, because so much is prohibited, it makes people timid. You will never find it, as it does not exist.

 

[bigblue]

BS. This is not a grey area. This is a completely legal white area.

 

[ChevyGuy91]

Laws prohibit. What is not prohibited by laws is legal. Therefore, you will not find a law that says "you can legally carry your gun here, here, and here."

This is a fundamental concept that people need to grasp and most do not.

OP, read this again.

 

[uncle griz]

carry concealed anywhere you don't have to go through a metal detector .....concealed is concealed.

 

[Goliathan]

Thank you all for your input, but I'm looking for the exact chapter and whatever number because "this guy on NES said..." is not going to satisfy him lol


sorry to seem difficult, but its one of those gray areas that its he said she said

What they're saying is that no law exists that says you can ignore a store's signage, so there's no "chapter and verse" anybody can quote you. If there was a law that says you must obey signage, there would be something to quote and you'd be subject to it.

We're talking about the absence of a law, here.

 

[drgrant]

Do you know the exact law that says so?

You will learn quickly, that the "show me the law" thing doesn't work when you're trying to ask about what conduct is legal.

Laws are usually prohibitive, that is, they usually don't explicitly "give you permission" to do something.

The correct way to counter someone like your SO who says "I think its wrong bweah someone said its illegal" is to ask them to show you the law that says that it is NOT legal.

-Mike

 

[Glockster30]

Can you please point me to the law that says I can wear a purple shirt on Thursdays?

I think that you might find that out on a LGBT forum.

 

[RYJ]

I went in last night bc they had a good amount of .22 and there were plenty of Dicks just none willing to help so I walked out.

Yes I was carrying; no I don't care what their signage says.

I would rather go to Cabela's all day but this is half an hour closer to my house.

I picked up some .357 at dicks in saugus last week and got the perp walk to register where the clerk asked are you carrying that now ? "nope just happy to get my ammo" true story

 

[Glockster30]

I picked up some .357 at dicks in saugus last week and got the perp walk to register where the clerk asked are you carrying that now ? "nope just happy to get my ammo" true story

If I need to, I go to Dick's in Seabrook. No ID, no perp walk, no nuffin!!!

 

[IPSC_DRL]

I picked up some .357 at dicks in saugus last week and got the perp walk to register where the clerk asked are you carrying that now ?

That is not a polite or proper question to ask anyone. I see it akin to asking a woman her weight. (outside of an insurance application)

 

[bigblue]

I picked up some .357 at dicks in saugus last week and got the perp walk to register where the clerk asked are you carrying that now ? "nope just happy to get my ammo" true story

My answer would have been a hostile "are you"?

I have no other reason to go in that store than they occasionally have .22 at ok for 2016 prices ($25 for 325). If they really want to be a gun free zone then **** them.

 

[AHM]

Neverending Quest for MGL Wallhacks Dept.

... There is no "alcohol premises ban" in MA, but everywhere is prohibited if you are "under the influence of alcohol".

Slight correction -
Massachusetts has enacted
a mutual exclusion principle
for alcohol and gunpowder:

Either your gun can be loaded,
or you can be loaded,
but not both simultaneously:

General Laws, Chapter 269, Section 10H

Carrying loaded firearm while under influence of liquor, marijuana, narcotic drugs, depressants or stimulant substances; punishment​

​

Section 10H. Whoever, having in effect a license to carry firearms issued under section 131 or 131F of chapter 140, carries on his person, or has under his control in a vehicle, a loaded firearm, as defined in section 121 of said chapter 140, while under the influence of intoxicating liquor or marijuana, narcotic drugs, depressants or stimulant substances, all as defined in section 1 of chapter 94C, or the vapors of glue shall be punished by a fine of not more than $5,000 or by imprisonment in the house of correction for not more than two and one-half years, or by both such fine and imprisonment.​

Sample application: I seriously considered for a while that they didn't charge Abington Man for packing while drunk on Nantasket Beach because his Walther PPK/S was in Condition Four. (The news stories can be interpreted to allow for that set of facts). But I decided that in reality he's in so much trouble that they got writers cramp before they got around to drunk carry.

Oh, and notice that the law I quoted makes carrying under the influence illegal only if you have a license. (Firearm license - not liquor license).