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When the cops come to confiscate: How do they know you eFA10'd them to somebody else since guns never leave the registry?
- Thread starter Reptile
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dcmdon
NES Member
Excellent attention to detail. I apologize for the ambiguity.
Not only out of your physical possession, but transferred to someone else.
Of course in NH or ME that simply requires handing the guns to a friend as no checks or paperwork are required for secondary transfers. Though a dated bill of sale signed by both parties is always a good idea and particularly so in this situation.
AHM
NES Member
(I wouldn'a have noticed if I weren't standing on the toes of giants -
that model rocket iconoclast).
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A better idea is to transfer yourself out of state, along with the guns. MA jurisdiction ends at the border. Swap out MA driver's license for a NH one and be done with it. No more worries about LTCs and dealing with "marsupial courts" (must be a MA thing; my home state has strict gun laws, but I never heard of that!).
That's adorable that you think that would stop anything. 209As are orbital (because lautenberg) and the NH cops will show at your house to steal your shit, but they're not so aggressive. Maybe if we're talking suitability sure but suitability really isn't a problem with somebody with a functioning brain regardless of whatever driver's license you have is irrelevant.....
dcmdon
NES Member
Everything I wrote above about this was with the idea of moving out of state. I said that several times.
Re getting a NH DL. Its not so easily done anymore. Do you actually live in NH?? Do you own a home in NH?? If you finagle a NH DL but still spend time in MA, you still can't carry a gun in MA.
So like I said earlier. If its something like a protective order, which will end soon and you live in MA, then it might be best to play ball with the PD.
If its something that will forever make it so you can't get a MA LTC but won't make you a federally prohibited person, then you may want to play hardball. Either way, the first step is moving them out of state. 100% legal if its done before any legal action is taken.
dcmdon
NES Member
They can't take them if they can't find them. I'm not going to get into details. You know the answer, but its totally possible to make them "unfindable" and still be 100% within the law. Totally legal.
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So, people register guns in MA and then cry when police show up with an itemized list of what they own and demand that they account for each and every one of them? Why not just not register anything? I was supposed to register for selective service back in 1984. Like a lot of guys, I quietly refused to do so. Nothing happened, despite all the widely publicized threats of federal prison, huge fines, etc. Yes, a few got caught. They went before the media and flapped their pie holes. One of them was from Evanston, a wealthy suburb north of Chicago. A few days after he went public, he and his parents received a not-so-cordial visit from the FBI. What you own, including guns, is your business alone. Keep it that way.
HarryPottar
NES Member
I just renewed my LTC and there was a page I hadn’t seen before.
Maybe it’s been around and I just didn’t pay any attention to it.
Along lines of stating I had not lost, disposed of firearms that I had not reported.
Not exact verbiage but bases is there.
Maybe it’s been around and I just didn’t pay any attention to it.
Along lines of stating I had not lost, disposed of firearms that I had not reported.
Not exact verbiage but bases is there.
Yeah a few years ago the law got changed to add that stupid loss affidavit.... I think they criminalized failure to report a stolen firearm or some b******* like that something you would think was already criminalized in mass...
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Thanks for the warning. All of my purchases were out of state. Looks like that practice will have to continue.
Quite_Exasperated
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A friend, seriously, a friend, had some recent trouble with the popo in a small town in SE Mass. The popo showed up and knew about every single gun he owned..fwiw, but we already knew this..
It always cracks me up when people go on public forums and brag about doing illegal crap.
The decision to break or to follow the law comes down to your own perception of risk vs reward. Pretty much everyone intentionally breaks some laws - speeding, j-walking, not paying taxes on something you bought in NH, etc. These are all pretty low risk crimes - a $200 speeding ticket isn't that big of a deal. However, failure to file an FA10 can land you in jail (on the second offense, iirc) - whether you want to take that risk is your call, I guess. I think most people figure that the chances of the local PD coming to confiscate their guns are a lot smaller than the chances of that same PD figuring out that they never registered their guns, so they do the legal thing and fill out the form.
Personally, I wouldn't want to have to explain why I'm carrying a gun that's not in the system, but you do you.
The decision to break or to follow the law comes down to your own perception of risk vs reward. Pretty much everyone intentionally breaks some laws - speeding, j-walking, not paying taxes on something you bought in NH, etc. These are all pretty low risk crimes - a $200 speeding ticket isn't that big of a deal. However, failure to file an FA10 can land you in jail (on the second offense, iirc) - whether you want to take that risk is your call, I guess. I think most people figure that the chances of the local PD coming to confiscate their guns are a lot smaller than the chances of that same PD figuring out that they never registered their guns, so they do the legal thing and fill out the form.
Personally, I wouldn't want to have to explain why I'm carrying a gun that's not in the system, but you do you.
dcmdon
NES Member
Its not a real registry. And the cops know it. There are many ways for guns to leave your possession and no record to exist.
There are a couple of ways for you to lawfully possess firearms that they don't know about.
You balance your risks. I am out and about with a firearm on a daily basis. For me, the risk of breaking the law is greater than the risk of not breaking the law. So I'm 100% compliant. Knowing your rights within the law is the first step to making compliance less risky.
This is what I was getting at early on in this thread. Cops show up and you have one gun that's not in the system (legally - e.g. the seller never filed the FA10 or you moved in from out of state) but you're also "missing" a gun that IS in the system because you sold it (with an eFA10 but it's still under your name in the stupid system). Then what? Do most cops realize that this can happen and they're cool with it, or will they demolish the whole house on their search? Rhetorical question, don't answer it.
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Folks, I have said this before, The State Firearms Records System is way beyond broken and will not stand up to judicial scrutiny. So If you told the cops sorry I sold everything (and they are not on your property or are not seen using them). Yeah they can get search warrant, and they can search. When they find nothing, that is what they have to report on the warrant return.
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But the Clerks of Courts and Judges don't, and they issue the warrant based on the Affidavit of the cop.
When you inbound a handgun the same thing happens,unless you get it as a frame transfer.
None of it matters because the authorities will at some level assume you have guns just by virtue of having an LTC or FID. My ex never owned a gun but had an LTC and the first thing the cops asked her when they came to arrest her roommate was if “he had access to any of her guns”. They had no reason to search given that context, but it was still asked. So you're still on the radar (at some level ) if you're licensed.
Yes, but there are other chunks of MGL they could attempt to prosecute someone with if they think you failed to surrender something, although I don't think that plane will
fly given the complexity involved if someone is pressed to the bars, so to speak. At least one member here relayed an experience they or a friend had where the cops were pushing that narrative- "get us the missing guns or we'll charge you" etc, blah blah. I honestly think most of that stuff is bluster because I've never heard of it used "successfully" lets put it that way. They would have to prove someone was lying when they said "well, I disposed of X Y and Z through dealer L, M, and N. Oh and by the way N hasnt been in business for 5 years, M died last year. " etc. Is the judge going to still be able to put someone in jail when the person says "I don't have any of those records from 12 years ago, so I am going off what I remember"
etc.
AHM
NES Member
Seems cheaper to hire @Len-2A Training to school the court on the Swiss Cheese FRB system
than to put the defendant up on the stand to run his mouth and then get cross-examined.
For an extra fee, maybe Len would be willing to troll the prosecution to list all of his guns.
Then pick out one he sold, reach into the slash folder, and wave the bill of sale (or outbound ((e))FA-10),
and say "riddle me this counselor, how come your elite record system says I own a Florbert Parlor Rifle,
when I clearly registered its sale in the previous millennium?".
Reasonable doubt, bay-bay.
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I agree and the best course of action is to close that hole under the schnoz firmly and keep it closed. When I was falsely arrested and jailed back in the mid-1980s for carrying a "switchblade" while out fishing on the docks of Long Beach, I let "Cagney & Lacey" take me to jail. Those two aggressive young women were determined to make a name for themselves and arguing with them would have just worsened my situation. I politely informed them, as they were handcuffing me, that I had nothing to say without an attorney. After 3 days in jail, I was released at arraignment after the judge determined that my 1970s vintage Gerber FS2 lockblade folder was not a switchblade as defined by California penal codes, regardless of the "Flick-It" attachment that I installed for faster one-handed opening.
I don't even think that most cops are aware that the FRB List isn't accurate. They don't generally deal with that stuff. An ADA tried to make a defendant look guilty of having an unregistered SKS, even though he knew that the defendant had moved from MA to ME and then back to MA. He was also charged criminally with possession without an FID card, again he knew that the defendant had an expired FID and had never tried to renew it (non-criminal offense). I think it was vindictiveness and not ignorance in that particular case, based on the ADA and prosecutor's behavior. I did burst both of those bubbles, but it should never have been necessary for me to be the expert witness to do so.
chris_1001
NES Member
Mine aren’t lost. I just don’t have a current PADI certificate that lets me dive below 120 ft.
