When do you OWN a gun?

[92G]

I chose not to out the LGS

 

[Broc]

My original question was asked because Amex asked me if I had ever taken possession of the property. I dont think I have?

You haven't. The gun was always behind the counter.

Think of it as buying an item online and not getting the item after paying. You paid for it, but never had posession of the item.

Same thing.

I will guess you have been denied in the past. If that is the case, why put yourself in the position of having to ask for a refund?

 

[Len-2A Training]

You never pay before the background check clears.

Try that at Sig Arms Pro Shop and let me know how it works for you.

 

[Broc]

I have never been delayed myself but also have never paid before clearing BC. Only after getting the go from the check has the purchase actually proceeded and payment processed. Everyone that I know of that have been delayed only paid for purchase AFTER delay was cleared. Nobody ever paid before the BC cleared. This is the first instance I’ve heard of since BC started, as far back as I can remember anyway.

Back in the day when I had a resident alien FID (the ones that were a big piece of paper and looked fake), I would always get delayed 3 days. The store never asked me to pay upfront. I bought 4 rifles this way.

 

[KBCraig]

The real questions have been answered, but to answer the question actually asked: you own it when you pay for it.

If you buy a gun from Bud's, it's yours as soon as the the payment is processed. They send it via UPS/Fedex, but the carriers doesn't own it: you do. It gets delivered to your LGS, but the shop doesn't own it: you do. When the LGS runs NICS and you're delayed or denied, you still own it, even if they can't transfer it to you and you can't legally possess it.

(Contrary to common belief, there is no ban on prohibited persons owning firearms. They just can't possess them.)

 

[TomMontana]

That's a lousy way for the dealer to do business. Were you and your wife both planning to purchase guns or was her purchase something that was proposed once you got delayed? If it's the latter, then from the dealer's perspective this appears real shady.

 

[drgrant]

You never pay before the background check clears.

Lol... I could swear FS and others ring you out before doing checks.... maybe my brain is fried.

 

[HenryBravoKilo]

Did they void the transaction? Or issue a refund? The reason I ask...
They probably paid at least 3% processing fee. If they void the transaction, it costs them nothing. If they refund it, it costs another 5%.

So in round numbers on $1000 it would have cost them $80. If they voided the transaction there would be zero fees. I think a transaction can be voided for the first 24 hours, but an inexperienced clerk may have screwed up, and you shouldn't have to pay for it.

Isn't that their fault for expecting payment before a proceed though ?

 

[HenryBravoKilo]

Lol... I could swear FS and others ring you out before doing checks.... maybe my brain is fried.

I can attest to the fact. They most absolutely do. I also feel like Carl and Mike are outstanding and would have no problem issuing a full refund amount if in case I ever got denied.

 

[HenryBravoKilo]

Back in the day when I had a resident alien FID (the ones that were a big piece of paper and looked fake), I would always get delayed 3 days. The store never asked me to pay upfront. I bought 4 rifles this way.

I have LTC-A with delay due to being permanent resident. 4S makes me pay upfront EVERY time.

 

[Garys]

I don't know about the fried brain thing, but they always do the NICS check before taking payment. At least for me, maybe they think you're sketchy.

Lol... I could swear FS and others ring you out before doing checks.... maybe my brain is fried.

 

[drgrant]

I don't know about the fried brain thing, but they always do the NICS check before taking payment. At least for me, maybe they think you're sketchy.

Maybe it's NICS, pay, then MIRCS there.. . That might make sense. It's been like over 6 yrs since i bought a gun there, last one was no purchase just a transfer.

Eta: actually it's literally been 9 or 10 years, last was a transfer a couple winters ago.

 

[EJFudd]

I don't know about the fried brain thing, but they always do the NICS check before taking payment. At least for me, maybe they think you're sketchy.

This is correct. The reason I remember this so well is that they always try to sell me some ammo at the very end when they are ringing up the sale.

 

[mcshooter]

Yes. Even for store credit it would be less the $50. For I gun I never owned, never returned and never even touched.

Not going to lie, I wouldn't buy a gun I never touched or held in shop to see if I liked how it felt

 

[wilson911]

Not going to lie, I wouldn't buy a gun I never touched or held in shop to see if I liked how it felt

You try out the gun they keep in the counter. When you buy one they grab a new one out of the back. Like how shoe stores used to be.

 

[44marty]

Life can be so simple. You never pay till the BG check goes thru. Then you pay cash. Only cash. If the dealer has a problem with that, you walk. Jack.

Exactly
I have never even been asked for payment or a deposit before the BG check went through, except when having the FFL place a special order

The $50 charge is pure bull, and I would not set foot in there again
Possibly stop by in a couple months to ask about their sales policy, and whether it has changed. Let them know this is the reason they are losing your business. They just may change it

 

[44marty]

The real questions have been answered, but to answer the question actually asked: you own it when you pay for it.

If you buy a gun from Bud's, it's yours as soon as the the payment is processed. They send it via UPS/Fedex, but the carriers doesn't own it: you do. It gets delivered to your LGS, but the shop doesn't own it: you do. When the LGS runs NICS and you're delayed or denied, you still own it, even if they can't transfer it to you and you can't legally possess it.

(Contrary to common belief, there is no ban on prohibited persons owning firearms. They just can't possess them.)

This is true. I have bought as a present a handgun online that was not on the MA roster. Had some work done on it. Then had the FFL ship it to an FFL in Alabama for my friend to take possession of it. I had to sell it to him for a nominal fee, as I was still the legal owner.

 

[ThePreBanMan]

They can't sell the gun while they're waiting on your background check. If you then walked on the transaction you could have potentially cost them business. I see no problem with a fee in such a circumstance. They shouldn't be out revenue because you changed your mind.. Especially if they ordered inventory to replace it and are now stuck with extra units.

No one ever thinks of the business or anyone but themselves really...

 

[drgrant]

They can't sell the gun while they're waiting on your background check. If you then walked on the transaction you could have potentially cost them business. I see no problem with a fee in such a circumstance. They shouldn't be out revenue because you changed your mind.. Especially if they ordered inventory to replace it and are now stuck with extra units.

I think you missed the part where he crapped out on the sale right after it entered the delay state. So unless we're suggesting they could have sold that gun during the like, what, 10 minutes the gun was "tied up" in limbo, then that sort of goes out the window. That's why I asked him when he crapped out on the delay. If it was 2 days into the delay then I would easily understand a shop assessing a restock fee or some other penalty for crapping out.

No one ever thinks of the business or anyone but themselves really...

This is very true, particularly given for most ocmmodity guns there's not a huge profit $ on them.

I don't think the OPs thing is that unreasonable, though, given the totality of the set of circumstances he's described.

-Mike

 

[citoriguy]

1. This reminds me of how pissed I was when my JetBlue card went from AMEX to MasterCard.

2. It’s been a while since I purchased from 4S, but I recall paying after we got the all-clear.

3. What was the firearm in question? My own curiosity.

 

[eboos]

Were you informed that the $50 was gone regardless?

Yes. Even for store credit it would be less the $50. For I gun I never owned, never returned and never even touched.

I think the real question is: Were you informed prior to making payment that a "processing fee" would be applied? If no, the store would have no grounds to withhold the $50.

 

[caboose84]

As a small business owner, who processes credit cards (not AMEX, the extra 2% in cost to me isn't worth it) if a transaction is reversed the same day, any CC fees are wiped out.

So if you come into my campground and pay for a night, then decide you don't want to stay (we have a 1 hour satisfaction guarantee) I refund what you paid and I don't get hit with any transaction fees. If you had made a reservation a few days before, when I took the deposit I get hit with the fees and if you decide to leave in an hour I refund your money and am out the fees.

Most CC processing places work like that, so the dealer shouldn't have had any CC fees to deal with, as this was a commodity gun you bought out of stock.

 

[ThePreBanMan]

I think you missed the part where he crapped out on the sale right after it entered the delay state. So unless we're suggesting they could have sold that gun during the like, what, 10 minutes the gun was "tied up" in limbo, then that sort of goes out the window. That's why I asked him when he crapped out on the delay. If it was 2 days into the delay then I would easily understand a shop assessing a restock fee or some other penalty for crapping out.



This is very true, particularly given for most ocmmodity guns there's not a huge profit $ on them.

I don't think the OPs thing is that unreasonable, though, given the totality of the set of circumstances he's described.

-Mike

If he walked right upon receiving the delay - then yea - I would agree - the fee is kind of dumb.

 

[wilson911]

If he walked right upon receiving the delay - then yea - I would agree - the fee is kind of dumb.

I ended the deal after I got delayed AND after discussing the ability to transfer what I had already paid on something the wife was going to purchase (independent if my purchaze). They told me, whether they refund onto card or store credit that there was a $50 penalty.
I'm very pro small business but its clear they did the wrong thing. They actually made way more profit on my processing fee than they would have on the sale of the stupid Shield 9 I am buying. Ya know, until you figure I'll never spend another dime there.

Todays update: I went out a lunchtime. Found the exact same shield for $38 less. BG came back in less than ten minutes and its home in my nightstand. So, it was a happy ending (oh....and they didnt run my card until I got a Proceed)

 

[MAGA99]

I ended the deal after I got delayed AND after discussing the ability to transfer what I had already paid on something the wife was going to purchase (independent if my purchaze). They told me, whether they refund onto card or store credit that there was a $50 penalty.
I'm very pro small business but its clear they did the wrong thing. They actually made way more profit on my processing fee than they would have on the sale of the stupid Shield 9 I am buying. Ya know, until you figure I'll never spend another dime there.

Todays update: I went out a lunchtime. Found the exact same shield for $38 less. BG came back in less than ten minutes and its home in my nightstand. So, it was a happy ending (oh....and they didnt run my card until I got a Proceed)

On 101A in Milford?

 

[wilson911]

On 101A in Milford?

Is there an NES tracker on my car?

 

[MAGA99]

Is there an NES tracker on my car?

I live one town over, I know the area.

 

[KBCraig]

I ended the deal after I got delayed AND after discussing the ability to transfer what I had already paid on something the wife was going to purchase (independent if my purchaze). They told me, whether they refund onto card or store credit that there was a $50 penalty.
I'm very pro small business but its clear they did the wrong thing. They actually made way more profit on my processing fee than they would have on the sale of the stupid Shield 9 I am buying. Ya know, until you figure I'll never spend another dime there.

Todays update: I went out a lunchtime. Found the exact same shield for $38 less. BG came back in less than ten minutes and its home in my nightstand. So, it was a happy ending (oh....and they didnt run my card until I got a Proceed)

I hope you send the not-really-named store a copy of the receipt, and link this thread to their FB page.

Looking at their website, I get a huge vibe that the owner is either a former/retired cop, or wants to look like he is.

 

[BigAl23]

I chose not to out the LGS because I support local merchants and i do not want to see any businesses in Greenville, NH adversely affected.

BTW.....if you read the thread, I have not been withholding this info.

I'd contact the owner directly and have them explain why. Your post will definitely have our members asking questions before the hand over their CC for payment before the BC.