What's Wrong With Licensing Gun Owners?

[mikeyp]

Don't worry, it's from Reason. Picking Booker apart

What's Wrong With Licensing Gun Owners?

Cory Booker says the gun control ideas he unveiled on Monday are necessary "to make justice a reality for all." But the New Jersey senator's plan, which he touts as "the most sweeping gun violence prevention proposal ever advanced by a presidential candidate," would unjustly deprive peaceful Americans of the fundamental right to armed self-defense.

At the center of Booker's plan is a federal licensing system that would require would-be gun owners to "submit fingerprints, provide basic background information, and demonstrate completion of a certified gun safety course" before they could exercise their Second Amendment rights. The process also would include a "comprehensive background check" by the FBI to make sure the applicant is legally allowed to possess firearms.

Booker says "many states" license gun owners. But according to David Kopel, a gun policy expert at Denver's Independence Institute, only three states—Illinois, Massachusetts, and New Jersey—impose that requirement for all types of firearms, as Booker wants to do at the federal level. Last year a circuit judge in Illinois deemed that state's licensing system inconsistent with the Second Amendment in a case that is headed for the Illinois Supreme Court.

 

[smokey-seven]

Amusing... He may be the first idiot to create a federally acceptable concealed carry permit. If that happens, I am on it big time.

 

[dans]

De facto reciprocity? While it sounds nice I would rather see licensing of first amendment rights before this.

 

[whatluck]

It will be just like LA, with only 1 gun store you can buy from.

 

[amm5061]

It will be just like LA, with only 1 gun store you can buy from.

And no possible way to get a license unless you have connections or are a cop.

 

[not new guy]

Never happen. Half the country would revolt. Hopefully.

 

[Uzi2]

What's wrong with licensing voting?

What's wrong with licensing freedom of speech?

What's wrong with licensing the right to remain silent?

What's wrong with licensing the exercise of one's religion?

Cory Booker should be hanged!

I rest my case.

 

[whatluck]

You should need a license to exercise your 8A. We will impose cruel and unusual punishment unless you get a license.

How about 13A? We own you, you're a slave, unless you file this paperwork in triplicate notarized and anal cavity search at the DMV.

14A? To get equal protection or due process, you need to be connected, have a special purple placard that you hang from your windshield, and let the COP and mayor fingerbang your gf.

19A? Women can't vote unless they pay a tax and send in a fingerprint card.

This shit is silly and needs to stop.

 

[falcon123]

I am Spartacus.

 

[Glockster30]

Once they have a federal database of gun owners, the next step is a gun registry. It's just another form of the slippery slope.

 

[Reptile]

I wonder how many people would accept federal licensing if it offered them reciprocity.

 

[Drix]

Amusing... He may be the first idiot to create a federally acceptable concealed carry permit. If that happens, I am on it big time.

Except the feds then control the licensing system and the next Bloomberg or Pelosi to gain power can just sweep those regs under the table or make them so ridiculous nobody gets a license anywhere in the country as opposed to being compartmentalized to a state; not to mention it basically makes a registry.

 

[whatluck]

I can't get behind federal licensing even it if meant reciprocity, no way. Consider the source. Don't fall for the honeypot.

 

[not new guy]

F reciprocity. This will always be the cost.

 

[42!]

I wonder how many people would accept federal licensing if it offered them reciprocity.

Have to admit I'd be tempted, but history tells me that it won't stop there and I don't think they they could come up with enough guarantees to make me certain this is where it would stop.

The original reciprocity bill, even with the fix nics combined, was ok since it didn't add any conditions, licensing, or registration, and it still left licensing up the state (don't agree, but it didn't change anything). It just required all states to accept all the other states. Maybe this one can get negotiated back to reciprocity.... What can I say, I'm still half asleep and dreaming.

 

[Asaltweapon]

I can't get behind federal licensing even it if meant reciprocity, no way. Consider the source. Don't fall for the honeypot.

This.
When did .gov become our friends?

 

[JJ4]

Have to admit I'd be tempted, but history tells me that it won't stop there and I don't think they they could come up with enough guarantees to make me certain this is where it would stop.

Same. Being from MA it might seem nice to have the feds taking over from the MA local suitability and restrictions BS. That's all well and good when the federal government is pro-2A. What happens when Hillary 2.0 and Maura 2.0 are running the federal government and they "reinterpret" it all. Once power is ceded to the federal government it will only be returned to the people one way...

 

[DeadEyeDan]

I don’t have a problem with licensing and testing in theory... I think they are a good ideas if they didn’t have so much potential to be abused as tools for the gun control lobby. We know what the real agenda is here, if they were sincere in getting this done they would link it to some pro 2nd amendment items like national carry shall-issue and reciprocity and anti-standard mag capacity laws... But that will never happen, and it’s a great tool to demonize the pro 2a people as being apposed to “common sense” gun laws. A functional democracy should be all about finding the common ground...

 

[wiryone1]

I don’t have a problem with licensing and testing in theory... I think they are a good ideas if they didn’t have so much potential to be abused as tools for the gun control lobby. We know what the real agenda is here, if they were sincere in getting this done they would link it to some pro 2nd amendment items like national carry shall-issue and reciprocity and anti-standard mag capacity laws... But that will never happen, and it’s a great tool to demonize the pro 2a people as being apposed to “common sense” gun laws. A functional democracy should be all about finding the common ground...

Except that we are not a democracy. This country was founded as a constitutional republic. The idea is we only gave up specific limited powers to the government. Everything else is our liberty. It is the rights of the individual over 51% or greater. A license is a permission slip to do something that is otherwise illegal. You don’t license liberty.

 

[Dennis in MA]

Amusing... He may be the first idiot to create a federally acceptable concealed carry permit. If that happens, I am on it big time.

Uhhhh, no!

De facto reciprocity? While it sounds nice I would rather see licensing of first amendment rights before this.

Exactly.

You should need a license to exercise your 8A. We will impose cruel and unusual punishment unless you get a license.

How about 13A? We own you, you're a slave, unless you file this paperwork in triplicate notarized and anal cavity search at the DMV.

14A? To get equal protection or due process, you need to be connected, have a special purple placard that you hang from your windshield, and let the COP and mayor fingerbang your gf.

19A? Women can't vote unless they pay a tax and send in a fingerprint card.

This shit is silly and needs to stop.

Damn. I keep seeing Nancy Pelosi on FB. I'm thinking I'd be happy to submit to an 8A license to stop seeing her face.

 

[Glockster30]

I don’t have a problem with licensing and testing in theory... I think they are a good ideas if they didn’t have so much potential to be abused as tools for the gun control lobby. We know what the real agenda is here, if they were sincere in getting this done they would link it to some pro 2nd amendment items like national carry shall-issue and reciprocity and anti-standard mag capacity laws... But that will never happen, and it’s a great tool to demonize the pro 2a people as being apposed to “common sense” gun laws. A functional democracy should be all about finding the common ground...

When it involves the anti-2nd amendment crowd, there is no such thing as "common ground." Whenever they make gains with their guns laws, do they stop there? No, they either figure out new ways to destroy the 2nd or they continue using their already written playbook; something akin to Salinsky's Rules for Radicals.

 

[Radtekk]

Federal licensing? National reciprocity? Shall issue? Hmmmm.... Maybe we need a law to say something like this:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

 

[drgrant]

I wonder how many people would accept federal licensing if it offered them reciprocity.

A bunch of moron jingoservatives would suck for that crap in a heartbeat. Destroying gun ownership because someone doesn't have the balls to use FOPA to move their gun(s) through a few garbage states (effectively what reciprocity is, because over time the normal states will congeal into a situation requiring only a couple licenses at most) is not a solid plan.

ETA: Also bear in mind, the reciprocity leg humpers assume that the garbage states will fully honor it, and that assertion is patently laughable, but I would need an entire post by itself to explain how the garbage states will still harass and deter carry despite having reciprocity. I'll leave this as an exercise to the reader, but there are a lot of horrible things they can do in their laws to still allow reciprocity and still screw people.

Mandatory licensing does five horrible things:

-Deters ALL gun ownership nationally which will have a horrible long term trickle-down effect. Worse yet, it also deters gun ownership among lower income demographics because they can't easily absorb the burden and costs. And we need these people to exist and be supported because it's literally the ONLY possible way to detach gun politics from the urban bullshit voters. All of this results in a net long term SERIOUS reduction in gun owners. This is what the antis want, because its easier to effectively ban shit when the scope of ownership decreases.

-Promotes a "guns are bad and need special licensing and permission from .gov cuz theyre so dangerous" memetic ideal. This is horrendously bad for gun owners long term because it effectively promotes hoplophobia as a legitimate thing instead of it being a mental illness. We're already seeing enough of this crap in the media trying to influence kids by suspending kids for glock pens, pizza cut into a gun, etc, all that bullshit. It would be exponentially worse if we allowed .gov to validate that by mandating licensing. Hell, we already see this f***ing cancer in MA even among LTC holders, some right here on this very board. Some guy will get arrested in (insert normal state here) and at least one guy will go "I bet he didn't have a license". Think MA whipped downtrodden retard gun owner mentality
gone national, that should terrify anyone enough to want to avoid that alone.

-Tees up the ball for long term citizen oppression of rights, etc. If everyone is licensed it's effectively the same thing as a gun registry. It also tees up the ball for
roadside abuse- relatonal database with this info = harassment of motorists cuz guns (even if they might not be carrying one) etc. We're already seeing the effects of this crap in isolated pockets here and there (like that guy that got harassed while transiting an MD tunnel because his CCW pinged in a ALPR lookup). As a secondary thing, it also tees up the ball for bans and confiscation; authorities would gladly use such a database as an invitation to search houses or compel people to register guns, etc, so on.

-Likely will cause destruction of lots of privately owned guns when licensed people die. The person's heirs may not be willing to get licensed and will surrender their
shit to buybacks or just generically to authorities for destruction. The implications of this are obvious.

-Further deteriorates the legitimacy in legal circles of the 2nd amendment being more along the lines of an absolute right that should be reinforced by law. Nobody with a brain wants "mandatory licensing" to become welded in as a permanently baked in , accepted "reasonable restriction" when gun issues go to the courts for any reason.

I'll concede the first two are almost the same thing but I thought that "deterrence of ownership" needed its own line item, that's how bad it is, all by itself.

-Mike

 

[fishgutzy]

I wonder how many people would accept federal licensing if it offered them reciprocity.

That's the bait and switch. It will have a clause in it stating that it does not supersede state carry licensing laws. So one will still get a long extended vacation for having a single spent brass case on one's person or car in states like MD or in DC for not having a permit from that jurisdiction.

 

[Chevy 2 65]

" a circuit judge in Illinois deemed that state's licensing system inconsistent with the Second Amendment"

 

[fishgutzy]

The only deep federal background check I should have to submit to is for a job that requires a DoD security clearance. Actually got my first secret clearance when I was still in high school. Have another one coming up for a job change.
But I guandamntee you that despite easily passing a DoD background check, I would fail the planned check by Dems. Their plan would fail 99.9% of applicants just like the LA County background check system. Like Boston, only wealthy donor class individuals and certain "acceptable" jobs like lawyers and doctors would qualify.

 

[greencobra]

Cory Booker should be hanged!

did i not see/hear about a little smoke coming out of the booker camp. someone has accused him of acting sexually inappropriate towards a staffer a few years ago. i heard it on a news broadcast once and never again was it brought up.

 

[Squire]

He's more than able to campaign to amend the Constitution removing the Uninfringed Right to be replaced with whatever Legislation is able to get passed. But that's the only legitimate way, and then he is asking for Civil War.

 

[mac1911]

License should be a easy process
US Citizen and 18 done and simple

 

[Uzi2]

License should be a easy process
US Citizen and 18 done and simple

License should not exist at all.

"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed". There is no other correct answer. Anything that violates those dictates to government is null and void.