What's up with GOAL?

[Urj]

My intent here isn't to bash GOAL per se, but rather to gain some understanding of why they do what they (seemingly to me) do.

Why does GOAL continuously file bills like the new B&E a firearm retailer bill, where there are already laws on the books. Isn't this what we complain about with the court system in regards to firearms laws? Adding more laws is not the solution, enforcing the ones on the books is. Why do we need this law? Is this not already a very strictly enforced Federal law?

Don't get me wrong here, I'm not against the law. It does no harm to gun owners so there's no reason to be against it. It just seems like a waste of time and resources to me.

I feel similarly about the Katrina bill. I would like that bill to get passed but it's all I ever hear about from GOAL. It never goes anywhere after it is introduced.

GOAL doesn't seem to be doing anything to work against the AG regs, the EOPS list, the unfair licensing practices, the unconstitutional gun laws in MA. They don't seem to do much to help those members who reach out for their help.

I know when I contacted them for assistance recently I was told, basically, T.S. I wish they'd put more resources into helping those of us in MA who are victims of the laws.

I'm starting to feel like GOAL really is the small time NRA. Claiming it's doing more than it really is.

I know I'll get bashed and neg repped for this post but I don't care. It needs to be said. Can someone please give me some examples of things GOAL has done with the resources our dues pay for that has made a difference for gun owners?

 

[Dirtypacman]

Have you seen their latest website :

http://www.goal.org/MassGunLawReform.htm

Maybe you should read up on it.

"In 2009, we are working with members of the State Legislature to file a comprehensive rewrite of the Massachusetts gun law."

 

[Dirtypacman]

Ohh and a quick show of some past results:

GOAL's Record of Success

1974 * Chapter 649 provides a 90 day grace period beyond the expiration date of the License to Carry Firearms.
1975 * Chapter 113 requires the Department of Public Safety to send a notice of renewal for Licenses to Carry 90 days in advance of expiration.
1976 * Chapter 34 provided the first temporary extension of the grace period on a License to Carry to 170 days beyond its expiration.
1978 * Chapter 551 exempts black powder long arms and ammunition from our restrictions for non-residents. The law also increases the validity period for a non-resident license from one month to one year.
1980 * Chapter 69 allows non-residents to secure temporary permits to compete in the IHMSA internationals.
* Chapter 353 exempts collectors from the "four guns per year" display requirement when at a gun show or exhibit.
1981 * Chapter 411 was emergency legislation to temporarily extend the grace period for a License to Carry to 180 days. (This was the second time such legislation was necessary in five years.)
* Chapter 541 allows an individual to purchase any type of ammunition with either the FID card or a License to Carry.
* Chapter 597 allows a private citizen to sell more than four firearms per year, provided the sale is to a licensed dealer.
* Chapter 598 allows an individual to display for sale more than four firearms.
* Chapter 661 empowered the Division of Fisheries and Wildlife to allow the use of rifled primitive firearms.
* GOAL worked to assist Governor Edward J. King in passage of "defense in the home" legislation, signed as Chapter 696.
1982 * Chapter 39 empowered the Division to issue special permits to handicapped bow hunters.
* By petition of GOAL, Governor Edward J. King proclaimed April 4th as the "Right to Bear Arms Day" in Massachusetts .
* Chapter 189 forbids gun owners' names and addresses from being public information.
1983 * Chapter 516 redefined certain firearms to protect collectors of antique rifles and shotguns.
1984 * Chapter 172 provides for certain exemptions from Bartley-Fox, such as common carriers, veteran's organizations, and organized shooting competitions.
* Chapter 333 increased the duration of a dealer's license from one year to three years.
* Chapter 420 authorizes the Department of Public Safety to issue temporary licenses to non-resident aliens for competition purposes, paving the way for hosting international shooting events here in the Bay State .
1986 * Chapter 481 provides standardization (statewide application, response time for licensing, etc.) for the License to Carry.
1987 * Chapter 249 allows Massachusetts gun dealers to sell guns at shows, providing that they comply with all record keeping requirements.
1989 * Chapter 338 removed conflicting language relative to the term of validity for a firearms dealer license.
* Chapter 339 extended the time from 10 days to 30 days in which an FID card holder must notify of authorities of an address change.
* Chapter 408 cleaned up the language regarding "minors."
* Chapter 554 removed possible restrictions from a parent or instructor when training a minor in the safe use of a firearm.
1990 * Chapter 72 established a conservation land stamp. The money raised from the sale of the stamp will go solely for the purchase of open space. This legislation was filed jointly with the Massachusetts Sportsmen's Council.
* Chapter 511 removed black powder pistols from the licensing requirements. More importantly, it provided that the holder of a License to Carry a Firearm could not be held in violation of Bartley-Fox, regardless of the reason for issuance stated on the license.
1991 * Chapter 82 removed the restriction against banks from lending money to a gun dealer who wished to use his inventory as collateral.
* Chapter 89 removed the restriction against gun dealers from selling long guns or ammunition to citizens from non-contiguous states.
* Chapter 364 protects lawful hunters, fishermen and trappers from harassment. This legislation was filed jointly with the Massachusetts Sportsmen's Council.
* Chapter 373 exempts shooting ranges from civil or criminal liability for noise pollution. This legislation was filed jointly with the Massachusetts Sportsmen's Council.
* A resolve adopted by Massachusetts ’ House of Representatives on June 8, 1991 at 2:16 PM memorialized the Congress to support the instant check as opposed to the so-called Brady bill.
1993 * Chapter 217 allows the use of mechanized releases when bowhunting.
1996 * Chapter 258, the Rivers Protection Act, helps protect the Commonwealth’s valuable natural resources.
* Chapter 15, The Open Space Bond Bill, provides for the purchase and protection of undeveloped land, which must remain open to hunting and fishing.
* Chapter 296 allowed the Director of the Division of Fisheries and Wildlife to authorize the use of primitive firearms or shotguns with a rifle bore for hunting.
1998 * Chapter 91 declares the first week of October each year to be Eddie Eagle® GunSafe Week in the Commonwealth.
* Chapter 180, the Gun Control Act, contains 2 GOAL bills, one to standardize fees and one to create mandatory penalties for the misuse of a gun in a crime.
* Chapter 358 makes some corrections to typos in the Gun Control Act, such as the standard response time for an FID Card application and exemptions for veterans to possess rifles. With an emergency preamble, it actually took effect 24 hours before Chapter 180 did.
1999 * Chapter 1 exempts primitive firearms from storage requirements and exempts ammunition for these guns from licensing requirements.
* Outside Section 92 of the budget exempts commercial gun safes and trigger lock devices from state sales tax, to take effect January 1, 2000 .
2002 * Chapter 152 extends range protection to clubs that must move their ranges to comply with state or local laws.
2003 * Founded the Massachusetts Conservation Alliance and successfully passed into law Chapter 101 which restores the Inland Fish and Game Fund.
2004 * Chapter 150 brought several much needed reforms. These included a review board for misdemeanor offenses, a 6 year License to Carry and Firearms Identification Card, a 90 day grace period, and more.
2005 * Governor Romney issued a proclamation declaring May 7, 2005 as "Right to Bear Arms Day".

* Governor Romney suspended "administrative fees" to the Natural Heritage and Endangered Species Fund.

* Chapter 45 of 2005 allowed the Division of Fisheries and Wildlife to access an additional $1,000,000 of the Inland Fisheries and Game Fund.

* EOPS passed 501 CMR 9.00 a regulation to provide free replacement licenses.

* Chapter 137 of the Acts of 2005 standardized loaded/unloaded muzzleloader.

2006 *Chapter 137 - The Hunter Education Bill
An Act removing automatic qualification for certain licenses (see Senate, No. 469, amended). Approved by the Governor, July 6, 2006
*Chapter 177
An Act further regulating the use of target shooting weapons (see House, No. 4552, amended). Approved by the Governor, July 21, 2006 (Exempted target pistols from current laws.)

 

[Underwhere]

My intent here isn't to bash GOAL per se, but rather to gain some understanding of why they do what they (seemingly to me) do.

Why does GOAL continuously file bills like the new B&E a firearm retailer bill, where there are already laws on the books. Isn't this what we complain about with the court system in regards to firearms laws? Adding more laws is not the solution, enforcing the ones on the books is. Why do we need this law? Is this not already a very strictly enforced Federal law?

Don't get me wrong here, I'm not against the law. It does no harm to gun owners so there's no reason to be against it. It just seems like a waste of time and resources to me.

I feel similarly about the Katrina bill. I would like that bill to get passed but it's all I ever hear about from GOAL. It never goes anywhere after it is introduced.

GOAL doesn't seem to be doing anything to work against the AG regs, the EOPS list, the unfair licensing practices, the unconstitutional gun laws in MA. They don't seem to do much to help those members who reach out for their help.

I know when I contacted them for assistance recently I was told, basically, T.S. I wish they'd put more resources into helping those of us in MA who are victims of the laws.

I'm starting to feel like GOAL really is the small time NRA. Claiming it's doing more than it really is.

I know I'll get bashed and neg repped for this post but I don't care. It needs to be said. Can someone please give me some examples of things GOAL has done with the resources our dues pay for that has made a difference for gun owners?

I wish there were less laws but that isn't going to happen.
I think the only way of getting to where we want to go is to try and play the game.

The game is: introduce laws that punish gun crimes. Introduce laws that free up legal gun ownership. If you only introduce laws that free up gun ownership you'll be seen as unreasonable and likely ignored. (my opinion)

I like GOAL. Why? Because at least they are trying to introduce new legislation. Some of it may be just a reiteration of current, but they are still making attempts to change the law which is more then I can say about any one of us as an individual.

As a group I believe they have a strategy (my opinion).
And part of that strategy is not to come off as extremists.

 

[EddieCoyle]

I think the only way of getting to where we want to go is to try and play the game.

The game is: introduce laws that punish gun crimes. Introduce laws that free up legal gun ownership. If you only introduce laws that free up gun ownership you'll be seen as unreasonable and likely ignored...

Or better yet, introduce a bill that frees up legal gun ownership and tack on a bit of legislation that further punishes "gun crimes", which is what GOAL did here.

About the only way they could make it better would be to change the name from "Civil Rights and Public Safety Act" to "The Punishing Gun Thieves Act". I mean, who doesn't want to punish gun thieves?

 

[Mikey]

Maybe if more the .5% of licensed gun owners in this state were GOAL members things would get done to your liking.

Also I am not sure what you are talking about when it comes to helping those who reach out to them but if you are talking about legal stuff that cost big money, as it is GOAL barely has enough to do what they do.

 

[MasterShinken]

About the only way they could make it better would be to change the name from "Civil Rights and Public Safety Act" to "The Punishing Gun Thieves Act". I mean, who doesn't want to punish gun thieves?

I want a bumper sticker that has the mass gun reform site on it with "Help us protect our children" written in big letters

you have to like it, it's for the children

PS getting GOAL membership on Friday

 

[TomH]

Have you seen their latest website :

http://www.goal.org/MassGunLawReform.htm

Maybe you should read up on it.

"In 2009, we are working with members of the State Legislature to file a comprehensive rewrite of the Massachusetts gun law."

MA gun law doesn't need a rewrite, it needs a deletion.

 

[Chris]

It's all a matter of numbers.

Right now, GOAL does not have the numbers to be the 800 lb Gorilla on Beacon Hill. Jim has enormous respect for always sticking to the truth and being a sounding board for just about anything gun or outdoors related, but unless he can represent a significant percentage of the voters in that representative's district, he simply isn't a threat to their job.

The only way that these laws are going to be passed are:

1) They make so much sense that nobody would oppose it (like the breaking and entering law)

or

2) GOAL represents a formidable voting block where opposition would fear the loss of their job.

We can do #1 in limited situations, but only YOU can help with #2. Recruit and support.

I'm always annoyed at the people who complain that GOAL doesn't do XYZ, but then find that they are not even a member.

 

[Admin]

It's all a matter of numbers.

Right now, GOAL does not have the numbers to be the 800 lb Gorilla on Beacon Hill. Jim has enormous respect for always sticking to the truth and being a sounding board for just about anything gun or outdoors related, but unless he can represent a significant percentage of the voters in that representative's district, he simply isn't a threat to their job.

The only way that these laws are going to be passed are:

1) They make so much sense that nobody would oppose it (like the breaking and entering law)

or

2) GOAL represents a formidable voting block where opposition would fear the loss of their job.

We can do #1 in limited situations, but only YOU can help with #2. Recruit and support.

I'm always annoyed at the people who complain that GOAL doesn't do XYZ, but then find that they are not even a member.

+1

 

[Urj]

I am a GOAL member. I wouldn't have thought about saying what I did if I hadn't paid my membership dues as I wouldn't have a legitimate say in the matter.

As far as "working with the legislature to rewrite Massachusetts gun law" - I'll believe it when I see it.

If GOAL can substantially rewrite Mass gun laws in 2009 for the better I will buy GOAL memberships for 4 non-members.

 

[Bob P]

My intent here isn't to bash GOAL per se, but rather to gain some understanding of why they do what they (seemingly to me) do.

Why does GOAL continuously file bills like the new B&E a firearm retailer bill, where there are already laws on the books. Isn't this what we complain about with the court system in regards to firearms laws? Adding more laws is not the solution, enforcing the ones on the books is. Why do we need this law? Is this not already a very strictly enforced Federal law?

Don't get me wrong here, I'm not against the law. It does no harm to gun owners so there's no reason to be against it. It just seems like a waste of time and resources to me.

I feel similarly about the Katrina bill. I would like that bill to get passed but it's all I ever hear about from GOAL. It never goes anywhere after it is introduced.

GOAL doesn't seem to be doing anything to work against the AG regs, the EOPS list, the unfair licensing practices, the unconstitutional gun laws in MA. They don't seem to do much to help those members who reach out for their help.

I know when I contacted them for assistance recently I was told, basically, T.S. I wish they'd put more resources into helping those of us in MA who are victims of the laws.

I'm starting to feel like GOAL really is the small time NRA. Claiming it's doing more than it really is.

I know I'll get bashed and neg repped for this post but I don't care. It needs to be said. Can someone please give me some examples of things GOAL has done with the resources our dues pay for that has made a difference for gun owners?

The AG's regs have already been litigated. We lost because the org that existed BEFORE GOAL screwed up a filing and the lawsuit was dismissed w/prejudice - meaning can't be refiled. You only get 1 shot at this stuff and it was blown.

My understanding was it was blown because the organization funding the litigation ran out of money.

If you're a gun owner in MA and don't belong to GOAL you're letting them win. By all means do more then belong but at LEAST belong.

 

[Admin]

If you're a gun owner in MA and don't belong to GOAL you're letting them win. By all means do more then belong but at LEAST belong.

You mean I can't just give them $30 a year sit back and expect them to save the world??? I actually have to be proactive as well????

 

[Bob P]

I am a GOAL member. I wouldn't have thought about saying what I did if I hadn't paid my membership dues as I wouldn't have a legitimate say in the matter.

As far as "working with the legislature to rewrite Massachusetts gun law" - I'll believe it when I see it.

If GOAL can substantially rewrite Mass gun laws in 2009 for the better I will buy GOAL memberships for 4 non-members.

Then what do you suggest GOAL do? You indicate they're not doing enough but then you scoff at their efforts to change the laws? What should they be doing differently?

 

[Tim111]

Maybe if more the .5% of licensed gun owners in this state were GOAL members things would get done to your liking.

Also I am not sure what you are talking about when it comes to helping those who reach out to them but if you are talking about legal stuff that cost big money, as it is GOAL barely has enough to do what they do.

 

[M1911]

Why does GOAL continuously file bills like the new B&E a firearm retailer bill, where there are already laws on the books. Isn't this what we complain about with the court system in regards to firearms laws? Adding more laws is not the solution, enforcing the ones on the books is. Why do we need this law? Is this not already a very strictly enforced Federal law?

Don't get me wrong here, I'm not against the law. It does no harm to gun owners so there's no reason to be against it. It just seems like a waste of time and resources to me.

I am against it. It is a pointless, feel-good law. If you want to send a message, use e-mail.

I feel similarly about the Katrina bill. I would like that bill to get passed but it's all I ever hear about from GOAL. It never goes anywhere after it is introduced.

GOAL doesn't seem to be doing anything to work against the AG regs, the EOPS list, the unfair licensing practices, the unconstitutional gun laws in MA. They don't seem to do much to help those members who reach out for their help.

GOAL submits bills each session to fix the laws and regulations. But the reality is that we simply don't have the votes. If GOAL had more members and those members actually did something (called their state senators and reps, volunteered on campaigns, and defeated anti-gun candidates), then we'd have some power on Beacon Hill. Right now, we're a paper tiger and the anti-gun politicians know that. Most people in MA are anti-gun and the politicians reflect that. Until we can change that reality, we won't have power on Beacon Hill. It is that simple.

I know when I contacted them for assistance recently I was told, basically, T.S. I wish they'd put more resources into helping those of us in MA who are victims of the laws.

I don't know what help you were asking for. GOAL doesn't have the money or staff to provide legal representation for gun owners.

I know I'll get bashed and neg repped for this post but I don't care. It needs to be said. Can someone please give me some examples of things GOAL has done with the resources our dues pay for that has made a difference for gun owners?

I'll be happy to criticize you as being naive about the reality of politics here in MA and ignorant of the good work that GOAL achieves given their meager resources. I see no reason to negative rep you, even though I think you are misguided.

 

[M1911]

The AG's regs have already been litigated. We lost because the org that existed BEFORE GOAL screwed up a filing and the lawsuit was dismissed w/prejudice - meaning can't be refiled. You only get 1 shot at this stuff and it was blown.

GOAL did not have standing and was not a party to the suit. GOAL certainly existed at the time.

My understanding was it was blown because the organization funding the litigation ran out of money.

It was the American Shooting Sports Council. It isn't clear to me whether they ran out of money or just dropped the ball. This was at the time when cities around the country were filing lawsuits against gun manufacturers.

 

[Admin]

I'll be happy to criticize you as being naive about the reality of politics here in MA and ignorant of the good work that GOAL achieves given their meager resources. I see no reason to negative rep you, even though I think you are misguided.

+1 It's easy to complain when you don't know what Jim deals with at the state house each week. Remember the political make up of this state and the moonbats that need to be convinced. You couldn't pay me enough to deal with the egos on Beacon Hill let alone try to work with them on something that most of them literally hate.

 

[Bob P]

GOAL did not have standing and was not a party to the suit. GOAL certainly existed at the time.


It was the American Shooting Sports Council. It isn't clear to me whether they ran out of money or just dropped the ball. This was at the time when cities around the country were filing lawsuits against gun manufacturers.

Thanks. I thought GOAL was created after ASSC imploded. I knew they had no part in that fiasco.

 

[Urj]

I'm not going to pretend that I know what they should do to magically make laws disappear. I do think that they should at the very least put more effort into changing the laws that are on the books, and informing the membership of their efforts to change THOSE laws. Not just putting out a feel good story about how the Katrina bill was passed up but it's okay because we're going to file it again next term!

I'd like to get the GOAL mailing and read what they have filed for legislation (like they already do) what they are working on, what they are brainstorming, etc.

I don't need to read about little timmy winning a rimfire match in middleofnowhere Mass. I want to know what they're doing to get rid of all the facets of Mass gun law that every one of us hates and knows is unconstitutional. Even if that means they write "We sat around on our butts and threw darts at a copy of MGLA."

It's hard for me to believe my membership dues were well spent when all they tell me about is that they're filing bills that already have laws, or they're going to submit the same bill again over and over.

How about a story on how they've asked the NRA for help taking on the legislation on safe storage laws in MA, or the MA AWB, or illegal licensing practices? Something to show that they're working on what NEEDS to get done instead of just extras.

I see stuff like the dontbreakintoagundealer law as icing on a cake that hasn't had the batter mixed yet, let alone been baked.

 

[MassMark]

+1

I see your +1 and raise you +1....

Chris articulated what I tend to ramble about....GOAL is not a panacea - not with 5% of the shooters in Massachusetts on board.... I would love to see more GOAL sponsored activities out this way and a greater "boots on the ground" approach to organizing members. Piecemeal membership giveaways - though honorable, will do little to stem the rising tide...

 

[Bob P]

I am against it. It is a pointless, feel-good law. If you want to send a message, use e-mail.

I suspect it's a 'nose under the tent' law as opposed to a message. Sort of like the car salesman getting you used to saying 'yes' by asking questions like 'nice day' etc. Legislation that promotes the view of gunowners as law-abiding citizens to get them used to voting on something other then a ban. Sort of a momentum-breaker if you will.

 

[Cross-X]

So, think GOAL doesn't do enough?

Volunteer -- GOAL could use an extra pair of hands or two. I do, and have for many years.

If you don't have time to volunteer, send a check and let your money do the work for you.

Don't just bitch -- get off your rump and do something to aid our cause!

 

[clinotus]

...
If GOAL can substantially rewrite Mass gun laws in 2009 for the better I will buy GOAL memberships for 4 non-members.

Just purchase the 4 memberships. This way they have more members to boast about to become that Elephant in the room, and your desire to see the re-write may occur because of it. Have to keep your eye on the prize my friend, eye on the prize...

 

[Bob P]

I'm not going to pretend that I know what they should do to magically make laws disappear. I do think that they should at the very least put more effort into changing the laws that are on the books, and informing the membership of their efforts to change THOSE laws. Not just putting out a feel good story about how the Katrina bill was passed up but it's okay because we're going to file it again next term!

I'd like to get the GOAL mailing and read what they have filed for legislation (like they already do) what they are working on, what they are brainstorming, etc.

I don't need to read about little timmy winning a rimfire match in middleofnowhere Mass. I want to know what they're doing to get rid of all the facets of Mass gun law that every one of us hates and knows is unconstitutional. Even if that means they write "We sat around on our butts and threw darts at a copy of MGLA."

It's hard for me to believe my membership dues were well spent when all they tell me about is that they're filing bills that already have laws, or they're going to submit the same bill again over and over.

How about a story on how they've asked the NRA for help taking on the legislation on safe storage laws in MA, or the MA AWB, or illegal licensing practices? Something to show that they're working on what NEEDS to get done instead of just extras.

I see stuff like the dontbreakintoagundealer law as icing on a cake that hasn't had the batter mixed yet, let alone been baked.

We don't have the numbers nor the money to go head to head on most of those issues. As Cross-X suggested, call Jim and volunteer your time doing just as you suggest.

 

[Admin]

I don't need to read about little timmy winning a rimfire match in middleofnowhere Mass. I want to know what they're doing to get rid of all the facets of Mass gun law that every one of us hates and knows is unconstitutional. Even if that means they write "We sat around on our butts and threw darts at a copy of MGLA."

Kids are the future of our right in owning guns. GOAL has to fill many roles in order to protect our guns. A big part of that is getting kids in to firearms and junior matches. This also gets parents involved who would not other wise think of guns in a positive way.

Again you need to understand how things work in one of the most corrupt state houses in the country before you can go and criticize an organization which you know little about.

 

[M1911]

Thanks. I thought GOAL was created after ASSC imploded. I knew they had no part in that fiasco.

GOAL was founded in 1974. ASSC was an industry association, mostly handgun manufacturers.

 

[C-pher]

So, think GOAL doesn't do enough?

Volunteer -- GOAL could use an extra pair of hands or two. I do, and have for many years.

If you don't have time to volunteer, send a check and let your money do the work for you.

Don't just bitch -- get off your rump and do something to aid our cause!

+1

I don't volunteer, but I try to raise money.

They have done a lot with our funds.

Just think, if it wasn't for GOAL, or licenses would be 200 bucks this year.

If it wasn't for GOAL, we might still be paying 100 bucks for four years.

If it wasn't for GOAL, the laws in our books might be more like Washington DC or maybe Chicago.

But hell, they don't re-write the laws, so screw them... They aren't doing anything for us....

 

[Bob P]

GOAL was founded in 1974. ASSC was an industry association, mostly handgun manufacturers.

Ah! Thanks.

 

[C-pher]

Kids are the future of our right in owning guns. GOAL has to fill many roles in order to protect our guns. A big part of that is getting kids in to firearms and junior matches. This also gets parents involved who would not other wise think of guns in a positive way.

Again you need to understand how things work in one of the most corrupt state houses in the country before you can go and criticize an organization which you know little about.

It's not just kids. Don't forget that we need to get the Mom's of these kids on board as well.

Many studies show that it's the Mom that will give the final say on what sports kids will get into. If you can't win over the Mom, you're going to have a hard time getting kids into the sport.