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whats the highest round legal mag for a saiga 12?

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Im looking to pick up a saiga in the next few weeks but today was told that you can only have a 5 round mag in MA. Is this true? I was looking on a website that sold SAIGA mags the the only ones that said will not ship to MA was anything over 12 rounds. Could i get a 10-12 rounder...even an 8 rounder?...Or is 5 rounds the max?
 
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Be careful here - the MA AWB defines large-cap shotgun as >5 rounds, but most companies assume the same 10-rounds as for a rifle and will happily ship you an illegal magazine in their ignorance.

Also realize that the ATF has threatened to call 12-ga shotguns with 20-rd magazines "destructive devices" like they did with the USAS-12.
 
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Sigh. And to think I was hoping to get one of these or the .410 version.

.410 should be fine, drum mags wouldn't be affected. Any bore over .50" is considered a "Destructive Device" unless it is found to fall under the "Sporting Exemption", which most shotguns and (usually historical) large-bore hunting rifles are covered. So ATF can with a statement claim that a shotgun with a 20-rd 12ga drum mag has "no sporting purpose" and start considering it a DD. They can't do the same for .410, as the bore is below .50 caliber.
 

drumenigma

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Also realize that the ATF has threatened to call 12-ga shotguns with 20-rd magazines "destructive devices" like they did with the USAS-12.

I haven't seen anything regarding this. According to the guys over on the Saiga 12 forum it is an internet myth probably fashioned by some overly paranoid Saiga owner. If they deem it a destructive device then the importation of Saiga 12's would likely be brought to a stop.
 
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Ummm.. are you sure about that? Is a .410 not considered a shotgun?

I've seen shops in MA selling the .410 version with a 10 round mag. Not that that means anything. [laugh] The same shop sold the 12 Gauge with the 5 round mag, but I just assumed it was because that was the factory-provided mag.

And no, I won't tell you what shops, dime-dropper. [wink]
 

cekim

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I've seen shops in MA selling the .410 version with a 10 round mag. Not that that means anything. [laugh] The same shop sold the 12 Gauge with the 5 round mag, but I just assumed it was because that was the factory-provided mag.

And no, I won't tell you what shops, dime-dropper. [wink]
The mere mention of it triggered a state-wide brown alert... SWAT will be visiting all gun shops that have not previously snitched to the AG... [laugh]
 
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The mere mention of it triggered a state-wide brown alert... SWAT will be visiting all gun shops that have not previously snitched to the AG... [laugh]

I've put myself out there a little on this forum too, I should probably be looking over my shoulder and sleeping with one eye open now. [laugh]

Wait... [shocked][sad2]
 

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.410 should be fine, drum mags wouldn't be affected. Any bore over .50" is considered a "Destructive Device" unless it is found to fall under the "Sporting Exemption", which most shotguns and (usually historical) large-bore hunting rifles are covered. So ATF can with a statement claim that a shotgun with a 20-rd 12ga drum mag has "no sporting purpose" and start considering it a DD. They can't do the same for .410, as the bore is below .50 caliber.

In free america, Saigas with 20 round drum mags are legal.... just don't be the idiot gun dealer/distributor that sells the gun with that mag already attached to it.... THAT is what can lead to it getting reclassified as a DD. Any dealer or distributor that does this should get throat punched. (Lest we have another BATFE trigger debacle like what happened with the steel cored 7.62 x 39 debacle when f**king olympic arms made the mistake of marketing a pistol chambered in 7.62 x 39 )

None of this, of course, has anything to do with MGL. In MA a Saiga mag that holds more than 5 rounds is illegal regardless of caliber, assuming there are no prebans, which I think don't exist.

The .410 is an interesing question, of course. Is it, or isn't it a shotgun? By BATFE standards a .410 with a smoothbore is a shotgun... not sure what the deal is in MA.

-Mike
 
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The .410 is an interesing question, of course. Is it, or isn't it a shotgun? By BATFE standards a .410 with a smoothbore is a shotgun... not sure what the deal is in MA.

-Mike

The issue has nothing to do with shotgun/rifle distinctions. 26 USC 5845(f):

(2) Any weapon by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, the barrel or barrels of which have a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter, except a shotgun or shotgun shell which the Secretary finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes;

The term destructive device shall not include any device which ... is a rifle which the owner intends to use solely for sporting purposes

If it's less than 1/2" bore ATF would need an act of Congress to make it a DD. Over 1/2" and it's an agency policy decision depending on the "sporting use" evaluation.
 

drgrant

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So I'm sitting here twiddling my thumbs waiting for someone to explain why they decided on 5 rounds....

Because some douchebag anti said "nobody needs more than 5 shots to kill an animal" or some rubbish like that. The antis never even consider guns as being a valid choice for self defense. Hell, they don't want hunters to have guns either, but that isn't politically viable for them (yet).

-Mike
 
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Because some douchebag anti said "nobody needs more than 5 shots to kill an animal" or some rubbish like that. The antis never even consider guns as being a valid choice for self defense. Hell, they don't want hunters to have guns either, but that isn't politically viable for them (yet).

-Mike

Self defense? ppfff, when seconds count....police are only minutes away. Who needs guns with those numbers?
 

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Wait, didn't the "Miller decision" say we couldn't have short barreled shotguns? How about magazine capacity? Or was it about only being allowed to possess guns with military use? If so, then what about the M-16 or even AR-15? Seems they want it both ways.
 
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