What's the best caliber / ammo for looters post-Florence?

Flood insurance for beach properties is a joke and a scam

577d2c30c4d21f20a4856166_1280x720_F_v1.jpg
 
Stuff like this always makes me look up the elevation of my town for no apparent reason. Norwood is 146ft above see level, I will forget this information within the next 10 minutes.


Elevation was one thing I definitely looked at when I bought my house back in 99. I'm at the top of a gentle hill. It doesn't help with basement flooding - but at least I won't get swept away if any rivers near me overflow.
 
saw on Fox News this morning the storm will make landfall as a cat2 and then seemingly quickly downgrade to a cat 1. Not great news but better then a cat 3 like they were predicting yesterday. Still will be. devastating storm.
 
saw on Fox News this morning the storm will make landfall as a cat2 and then seemingly quickly downgrade to a cat 1. Not great news but better then a cat 3 like they were predicting yesterday. Still will be. devastating storm.

It will be interesting to see how it really turns out. Seems like it degraded awfully quickly. A few days back they were hyping how it was a CAT 4 and "could become a CAT 5". Now it's degrading quickly to a CAT 2 and maybe a CAT 1. There's still the problem of all the rain, but I've noticed they're even downgrading their predictions on rainfall.

Something like 1.7 million people were evacuated.

I wonder if this will turn into another Deval Patrick storm event where he locks the state down and we end up with 4 inches of snow.
 
It will be interesting to see how it really turns out. Seems like it degraded awfully quickly. A few days back they were hyping how it was a CAT 4 and "could become a CAT 5". Now it's degrading quickly to a CAT 2 and maybe a CAT 1. There's still the problem of all the rain, but I've noticed they're even downgrading their predictions on rainfall.

Something like 1.7 million people were evacuated.

I wonder if this will turn into another Deval Patrick storm event where he locks the state down and we end up with 4 inches of snow.


Yeah, a lot of people evacuated. So really if you are trying to make the call you are either damned if you do or damned if you don't. If they didn't evacuate and it came ashore as a cat 5 a lot of people would have died. I guess they could have made it a voluntary evacuation order. But as you pointed out they were predicting this as a cat 5 event. Cat 2 is still nothing to sneeze at...and it is losing strength quickly. I'm not one for crying wold but the decision was made with best intel they had..
 
Yeah, a lot of people evacuated. So really if you are trying to make the call you are either damned if you do or damned if you don't. If they didn't evacuate and it came ashore as a cat 5 a lot of people would have died. I guess they could have made it a voluntary evacuation order. But as you pointed out they were predicting this as a cat 5 event. Cat 2 is still nothing to sneeze at...and it is losing strength quickly. I'm not one for crying wold but the decision was made with best intel they had..

A Cat 5 hurricane that could drop 36 inches of rain is a completely different level of event than blizzard up in MA that drops 36 inches of snow. I will grant you that. The problem the way I see it is that "we" seem to have gotten to a place where everything has to be hyped up like the next Hollywood movie. The TV weather people and even the NOAA seem to suffering from some sort of storm porn psychosis - and the dumbass politicians use it an excuse to get all Hitlery on the situation and start ordering people around.

There's no fighting a Cat 5 hurricane when it's coming for you - but the lockdowns we get up here are just stoopid. I'm old enough to remember the Blizzard of 78 - and life went on. The martial law shit is just out of control.
 
A Cat 5 hurricane that could drop 36 inches of rain is a completely different level of event than blizzard up in MA that drops 36 inches of snow. I will grant you that. The problem the way I see it is that "we" seem to have gotten to a place where everything has to be hyped up like the next Hollywood movie. The TV weather people and even the NOAA seem to suffering from some sort of storm porn psychosis - and the dumbass politicians use it an excuse to get all Hitlery on the situation and start ordering people around.

There's no fighting a Cat 5 hurricane when it's coming for you - but the lockdowns we get up here are just stoopid. I'm old enough to remember the Blizzard of 78 - and life went on. The martial law shit is just out of control.


I "liked" this post because I agree with it but mostly because you wrote "storm porn psychosis". I like that...lol

Yes, so maybe rather than go all nazi they could just ask for the voluntary evacuation. I too remember '78'. I made a lot of cash shoveling after that storm. But if you remember 78 you must remember that the reason it was such a cluster is that lots of cars got stranded on the roads preventing road crews from cleaning the roads. And with having businesses close during the storms and keeping traffic off the roads during major snow storms has slowed the area to get back to normal much quicker than in the aftermath of 78. But yes, the news is all hype and overly dramatic.

Seems the expected storm surge alone has the potential to take a lot of lives. Probably a good thing people evacuated but I still agree with you it should not have been mandatory. Just that whoever stays would need to know they are totally on their own until the storm is over.
 
Last edited:
Elevation was one thing I definitely looked at when I bought my house back in 99. I'm at the top of a gentle hill. It doesn't help with basement flooding - but at least I won't get swept away if any rivers near me overflow.

Can anyone explain this? How do we get basement flooding (through the freaking walls and floor) at the top of a hill? Shouldn't the water flow downhill and flood the neighbor's basement? This is for regular rain, not a hurricane storm surge.
 
While they are now saying Cat 1 or 2 at landfall, it will be moving slowly with epic rainfall and the Simpson Scsle does not take rainfall into account.
 
Can anyone explain this? How do we get basement flooding (through the freaking walls and floor) at the top of a hill? Shouldn't the water flow downhill and flood the neighbor's basement? This is for regular rain, not a hurricane storm surge.
 
Poor perimeter drains, improper site-scaping, springs, etc. There are any number of ways a foundation can fail no matter where it is.
Can anyone explain this? How do we get basement flooding (through the freaking walls and floor) at the top of a hill? Shouldn't the water flow downhill and flood the neighbor's basement? This is for regular rain, not a hurricane storm surge.
I would imagine even good perimeter drains and proper grading won't be enough to handle 30+ inches of rain. The ground would be quickly overwhelmed with rainwater and eventually start finding ways to get through the foundation - especially if you have an older block wall like mine. But I have no experience with this level of rainfall.
 
Can anyone explain this? How do we get basement flooding (through the freaking walls and floor) at the top of a hill? Shouldn't the water flow downhill and flood the neighbor's basement? This is for regular rain, not a hurricane storm surge.
Ground water levels are a mysterious thing. I've never had water in my basement, but my neighbor across the street, who is half way up a hill and 30' higher than me, is a different story. He's got an underground spring. Once he was digging and felt like Jed Clampet, but it was water that bubbled up, not oil. In 40 years his basement had never been wet. Then we had a small earthquake (2012 I think) which we believe collapsed the underground stream and caused it to form an underground lake around his house. He had to install the house's first ever sump pump because now in dry weather the water table around his house is less than a foot below the basement floor, and in wet weather the pump runs continuously.

I've also know people who never had a wet basement until some major construction or grading was done nearby.
 
Can anyone explain this? How do we get basement flooding (through the freaking walls and floor) at the top of a hill? Shouldn't the water flow downhill and flood the neighbor's basement? This is for regular rain, not a hurricane storm surge.

That baffled me at first. It's taken me a few years to figure it out. The woman who lived next door to me when we first moved in - had lived there since the houses were built (mid 50's). She always claimed there were underground springs in the area and she said there used to be a stream running in the woods behind our houses. I've never seen any evidence of the underground springs - or the long gone stream she was referring to. So that was probably just some sort of female daydream she had going on. She was also 90 years old.

The first thing is: when you dig a foundation hole into the ground, you disturb the soil. The soil in this area if you go down about 2-3 feet is what's called glacial till. This is dense hard packed soil that has been there since the glaciers came thru. It absorbs water - but not easily. When they dug the foundation they dug into this - then backfilled around the foundation. My house doesn't have gutters. So when it rains out the water goes into the ground rather easily around the edges of the foundation and then runs down under the floor. As long as it's not spring time and you've got snow melt combined with rain fall - the water just disappears into the ground. In the spring the water table gets high from all the water going into the ground (it varies year by year - I've watched it for almost 20 years now). If the water table is high - I get water in the basement.

About ten years ago - I dug a foundation hole to build my garage. I went down about 6 feet into the ground to do this and into that glacial till soil layer. I got the hole dug and then ran out of time to pour concrete before winter came so the hole sat there. In the spring the whole thing turned into a swimming pool. My back yard slopes down some - and what I had was about 2-3 of water in the hole - and the water was roughly equal with ground level on the back part (downslope) of the hole. The slope from front to back of the hole over 45ft or so was about 3-4 feet. I wanted to get the foundation poured - so I pumped the hole out and dumped the water into the woods behind me (again downslope) . After a couple of days of pumping I had the hole almost dry - but water was literally running right out the sides of the foundation hole and refilling it. At the same time I had some water in the basement of the house- it was right below floor level. The basement floor of the house is uphill from the foundation hole - and you would think that there wouldn't be water under the basement floor - without the back yard (downhill) - actually having water on the surface. But that's not what happened.

When I pumped out the foundation hole - the water flowed out of the sides of the hole for a good 2-3 days. After about a day - the basement in the house was dry. So the water under the house flowed towards the foundation hole once the standing water in the hole was removed. But the overall effect was that the water in the ground seemed to have essentially backed up - going UPHILL.

I've never done any serious research as to why this might happen (I'm sure some geologist somewhere could explain it) - but the best answer I can come up with is that the soil in the ground is like a sponge. Imagine you soak a sponge with water - and then put it on an incline and put a barrier on the downhill side. The water will stay in the sponge and not necessarily just seek it's own level. It gets even more complicated in the ground because the different layers of soil soak up water at different rates.

I ended up solving the problem by putting in drain piping around the footer of my house foundation and the garage foundation that all drain to the lowest part of the lot. I put in a drywell that the drain pipes all go to - and I've had to pump that when we get a lot of snow melt and/or rainfall (like a few years back when we had that winter with the huge snowfall). As long as the drywell doesn't back up with water (if the ground is saturated the water won't percolate in faster than the drywell fills up) - the entire lot stays dry now and I get no hint of water in my basement.

So just being on a hill won't necessarily solve your problems.

I know a couple of guys who have houses on the side of mountains. They get flooding issues in their basements because the water coming down the side of the mountain in the ground seeks the path of least resistance - which is their basement.

You can fix problems like this by putting strategerically placed drainage uphill from the basement and diverting the underground water before it gets there.
 
I would imagine even good perimeter drains and proper grading won't be enough to handle 30+ inches of rain. The ground would be quickly overwhelmed with rainwater and eventually start finding ways to get through the foundation - especially if you have an older block wall like mine. But I have no experience with this level of rainfall.


Block walls can be "fixed". They fail because of water pressure in the soil and because the blocks themselves will sometimes absorb water and then the freeze thaw cycle will start destroying the blocks.

I ended up digging down part of the foundation on my house right down to the footer - installing drainage piping *below* the level of the footer - and then waterproofing the foundation wall with a Grace Bituthene and put a drainage mat on the foundation wall. This cured any water infiltration I had going on thru that portion of the foundation wall (there were cracks in the wall).

You could do the same thing with a concrete block wall.

Quikrete also makes a product that is good for both waterproofing and making concrete block walls stronger.

Quikrete Quikwall:

QUIKWALL® Surface Bonding Cement | QUIKRETE: Cement and Concrete Products

It goes on like a plaster on the surface of concrete or concrete blocks and acts to both bond the blocks together as well as water proof the wall. I've used the stuff before - it works well.
 
I know a couple of guys who have houses on the side of mountains. They get flooding issues in their basements because the water coming down the side of the mountain in the ground seeks the path of least resistance - which is their basement.

You can fix problems like this by putting strategerically placed drainage uphill from the basement and diverting the underground water before it gets there.

Note the linear water stains in this parking lot.

The lot wraps around a small hill.
When it rains,
the water goes in to the ground and then spreads outwards.

The parking lot is impervious, and so the water can't seep out
until it either reaches the downhill edge,
or the pressure exceeds the strength of asphalt -
then it busts out of the ground.

In the winter, (depending on the state of repair),
there are broad flows of ice from where water breaks out and freezes.
 
Can anyone explain this? How do we get basement flooding (through the freaking walls and floor) at the top of a hill? Shouldn't the water flow downhill and flood the neighbor's basement? This is for regular rain, not a hurricane storm surge.

High Groundwater Table....ever hear of a shallow well? .....meaning there's something (layer of clay,etc) holding the water under soil for a period of time. Until conditions dry enough and the water perks below. Even though your on a hill and SURFACE water will flow off down to the neighbor, the ground absorbs water at some point, and a layer of clay 6 feet below the top of the ground may hold water enough to back up into your basement. A perk test during the wettest part of the year will usually tell you what soil your dealing with.

Any house built really should have a French drain system (series of pipes sloped down hill, buried in a foot of crushed stone) underneath the whole foundation that runs out of the hole by gravity to daylight. If your on a hill, this can usually be done, if your in a low spot, this is usually much harder to get done and typically a sump pump is needed if the surrounding elevation is not applicable.

Having a French drain system pretty much guarantees the foundation hole will be dry at all times, as any water that comes in is taken out below the surface and out of the pipes and the surface stays dry. Unless the end of the pipe that is open to daylight gets clogged, or the water rises above the level of it (i.e pipe dumps into swamp and level swamp rises above it)

Typically this "technology" wasn't around or used in old homes. They had lots of cheaper land and built on the best and driest lots. Or they just didn't have a way to gravity drain and dealt with flooded cellars. Some lots perk like crazy and don't need it...like if you built in an old sand and gravel pit...it might be overkill, but its good insurance that your cellar would pretty much never flood. And you would never have to resort to a sump pump. Problem is, it's limited to where it can be used, and you have to be smart enough and want to spend a few bucks extra in excavation and installation costs BEFORE you pour your foundation. The majority of houses spec'd now have some type of perimeter drain system below the outside of the foundation, the French drain takes it a step further and has pipes underneath the floors as well which helps when ground water is really the problem, not watershed off the roof.
 
Last edited:
Quick update. Wife & I are safely evacuated 325 miles and 3500 feet up in the mountains, staying at friends near the blue ridge parkway.

We have neighbors across the street who said they lost power at 5pm. So far the water is draining ok, and only limbs and leaves down in the neighborhood. Our house looked ok as of dusk.

Thanks y'all for the well wishes, and offers of assistance. It means a lot.
 
Down to Cat 1 now. Hopefully the winds die off faster than predicted. That might keep the power outages minimized. As far as water this is a slow mover. There will be bad flooding.
 
Quick update. Wife & I are safely evacuated 325 miles and 3500 feet up in the mountains, staying at friends near the blue ridge parkway.

We have neighbors across the street who said they lost power at 5pm. So far the water is draining ok, and only limbs and leaves down in the neighborhood. Our house looked ok as of dusk.

Thanks y'all for the well wishes, and offers of assistance. It means a lot.

Glad you decided to bug out. Sometimes the best weapon is common sense. Whatever's going to happen to your house will happen whether you are there or not. Best wishes for the recovery phase.
 
Morning 1 of the storm update:

In my neck of the woods, 17 miles from the ocean, a mile or so from New River, we’re getting the worst of the wind we’ll see. No damge to any houses that we can see in our neighborhood. We’re just on the northern edge of the eye. Lost power at 11 pm. Won’t get it back until at least Saturday night. Obviously the cell towers are still working if you can read this.

Getting word from friends that snead’s Ferry is getting obliterated. Turkey point in particular. If true, the marinas in the other end of the shore, at the river are being wrecked also.

North Topsail beach lost power, so the live cameras are off. No idea of the damage. But if the reports from Snead’s Ferry are accurate, the beach is going to be one heck of a mess.

I think, not so much because of the speed of the wind, but because the storm is moving so slowly, it just allows the ocean to pound the islands and the coast towns for a long time.
 
I know a couple of guys who have houses on the side of mountains. They get flooding issues in their basements because the water coming down the side of the mountain in the ground seeks the path of least resistance - which is their basement.
Our place on the side of Mt Sunapee is built on a slab. There is 1400’ of mountain above us, and a spring that runs through the back yard.

After looking through a bunch of basements in 5he area, this was a good choice. The original owner built a large two story garage for storage and the furnace, water heater etc are on the main level.
 
just as a follow-up, since I was the OP...

My neighborhood sustained a LOT of tree and wind damage, and had over two FEET of rain. However, all that rain had someplace to drain to here (the Bogue Sound). A couple boxes in my garage got a little wet. We lost the tops of a few trees, and a shutter blew off its hinges. That was IT. I had a couple days' worth of yard clean-up, but otherwise no damage to speak of. Lots of houses all around me lost full trees (several hitting houses), and/or had roof damage, and/or had water damage. Areas further inland (New Bern, Kinston, etc.) had less wind damage, but had worse flooding because the rain had noplace to go other than to fill in the e.g. Neuse River, which overflowed a mile on each side of its banks, several feet deep. A month later people are still in shelters. We feel blessed, and quite lucky.

I was honestly worried more about wind damage. When we bugged out it was a Category 3 or 4 storm, such as Michael which hit the Florida Panhandle and wiped everything out. Florence was a '2' when it hit. The eye hit Wilmington about 70 miles (as the seagull flies) south of here.

I can only keep saying "lucky and blessed" so many times, but that's honestly how we feel, still.
 
I've also know people who never had a wet basement until some major construction or grading was done nearby.

This happened at my house. When I moved in, the PO had installed a nice sump pump setup in one area in the basement. For the first couple years I lived here, it worked well. Then the town was relined the water or sewer main AND the gas co ran new lines in the neighborhood. For many months they were digging up my street, especially this one area almost in front of my house. Once everything was back together, during really heavy rain my basement now takes water from another spot. I need to put in another pump. My theory is they upset an underground stream or something like that.
 
Back
Top Bottom