What's Really Important After All ???

[ADC]

Great responses !

The more our politicians hear us worki g together as a group, repeatedly reinforcing the message and voting accordingly .. consistantly the better.

We need to get over our differences... publicly get over our differences.

 

[Varmint]

Says the guy who sets up a whole thread to complain about it.

It's like this, same idea:

 

[42!]

Step one, get people to join GOAL. They need the numbers.
Does GOAL even engage in recruitment? I mean real outreach. They should have one or more people dedicated to this. They need to directly engage the clubs and dealers. Go to meetings and stop by the dealers on a regular basis. Every gun owner in MA is a club member and/or a dealer customer. GOAL needs to promote their looking out for the firearms community, not a specific issue that might put off some that feel that issue doesn't affect them. Look at the NRA, they want everyone, hunters, target, those only interested in self defence, the NRA doesn't care they just want members.

GOAL, do this. Divide the state into 6 regions. find volunteers that are willing to put in the effort. Outgoing retired types that will enjoy the social aspect of visiting dealers, attending meetings, and generally talking to people. We aren't talking about converting anyone, they are working to get gun owners to join GOAL. Every 2 or 3 months gather these volunteers together with Jim and others to discuss ongoing efforts and brag about the new membership in their region, a little competition never hurt. Do this over dinner, don't make it a source of stress, and GOAL can pick up the tab.

Once the membership numbers are up, they can set another goal.

 

[ADC]

It's like this, same idea:

I'll take the jabs, it's important to make the point. we have mid terms coming up.

I agree on maintaining GOAL membership.
It is a very visual view of gun owners. make that group as large as possible.

If we could triple membership to say, 55,000 ahead of the mid term elections, we could possibly have strength in the trend at the state house. I'd like to find out.

 

[Rekonn]

...It provides a public presence and nothing more. No politician or judge ever looked down and said, "Damn! I'm totally against (fill in opinion here), but them marchers are dedicated, I'm going to change my mind!" ...

Agree with 99% of Dennis's post, but there's one thing that rallies/marches are good for. The democrats keep having anti rallies because it's a great voter registration tool for them. Now, imagine Jim speaking at a rally, and then having people taking email addresses and handing out brochures - could be a good way to grow GOAL membership. Same for Comm2A.

I think Pennsylvania does it right. They've been doing an ANNUAL rally since 2006. Think about the opportunity to improve on something year after year, instead of slapping together some crap last minute.

Pennsylvania Second Amendment Rally - Harrisburg, Pennsylvania

Now, I still think rallies have a minimal effect on politicians. But maybe there are a few that could go either way, that could be swayed by a big public presence. I think a well organized, bigger annual rally is more effective. Better for the politician to remember an earlier rally BEFORE voting, than to pass a sh!t sandwich, and have a fleeting thought about what the response will be later.

 

[ADC]

Agree with 99% of Dennis's post, but there's one thing that rallies/marches are good for. The democrats keep having anti rallies because it's a great voter registration tool for them. Now, imagine Jim speaking at a rally, and then having people taking email addresses and handing out brochures - could be a good way to grow GOAL membership. Same for Comm2A.

I think Pennsylvania does it right. They've been doing an ANNUAL rally since 2006. Think about the opportunity to improve on something year after year, instead of slapping together some crap last minute.

Pennsylvania Second Amendment Rally - Harrisburg, Pennsylvania

Now, I still think rallies have a minimal effect on politicians. But maybe there are a few that could go either way, that could be swayed by a big public presence. I think a well organized, bigger annual rally is more effective. Better for the politician to remember an earlier rally BEFORE voting, than to pass a sh!t sandwich, and have a fleeting thought about what the response will be later.

I agree, a rally and a large one is a very visual look at the vote that hands politicians the "Shit Sandwich" as you say.

My concern is the fractured way we look publicly. So I agree with you.
GOAL, NRA, Comm2A, etc are also "visual cues" to the "Shit Sandwich"

As gun owners, principal matters. As it should.

In discussion, we should be principled and perhaps even fractured. We need to put it all on the table.

In action, Publicly, we need to be overwhelmingly visually united as a group to the State House
Belonging to GOAL, NRA, Comm2A etc ARE very visual. Politicians do know our membership #'s
Rally's are very visual

 

[enbloc]

Raise your hand if you saw this guy in person... because you WENT TO THE RALLY.
Count how many bodies are pressed in against the Statehouse fence with this guy, and you all are bitching about what he wrote ON HIS SIGN?!

I'd rather have 10,000 of these guys than the ones who don't show...

Him, I could raise a Revolution with...

 

[enbloc]

Darth. I know you were there because I saw you.
Everyone else complaining about what sign a guy brings, but doesn't give a shit enough about SHOWING UP,
... has no dog in this fight.

 

[ADC]

Darth. I know you were there because I saw you.
Everyone else complaining about what sign a guy brings, but doesn't give a shit enough about SHOWING UP,
... has no dog in this fight.

Are we in agreement that we are also members of GOAL and the NRA, Comm2A?

 

[enbloc]

Life Member

 

[Rekonn]

Life Member

You vote for Adam Kraut for board of directors?

 

[fshalor]

I'm becoming more and more of a believer in the theory that we are being misdirected. 2a isn't the end game. And while it's an important part of the narrative, it is a useless conversation.

I would like to see people instead get enraged about automobile safety, for example. I think we could make the redirection if we all took it up as a message. Just pointing out the statistics (your child is more likely to die today on the way to the grocery store or the park than this year by a rifle in a school. ) (More people are killed in auto accidents due to bald tires than handguns)

Some large portion of the population needs an enemy to fight against so they feel worthy. Guns and 2a was easy to sell as a battle. There are other things...

Like deaths in hospitals due to accidents..Also higher.

I suspect that the root issue the powers that be are attempting to keep out of the fight is diet related. The research linking heart disease to fat has been shown time and time again to be bs. Causation and correlation are not congruent.

If that is true, than the food and diet guidelines being pushed by the government may be responsible for millions of deaths a year and decades of bad health for millions of people.

I'm slowly building a yapping sheet to attempt to shift a few coworkers from wanting guns gone to looking harder at car accidents. Key to the redirection is this:

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fv9311.pdf

 

[DarthRevan]

Darth. I know you were there because I saw you.
Everyone else complaining about what sign a guy brings, but doesn't give a shit enough about SHOWING UP,
... has no dog in this fight.

I wont argue people not being there shouldn’t bitch about his sign, however it’s still in poor taste when we are already losing the narrative battle. Another point not touched on yet is the way everyone was dressed. I get it, 3pers are a “militia” group. However if we had more joe and jane everydays there with signs and flags it would help the cause. Leave the tactical clothing at home for when we train. Seeing everyone with comms, ear pieces, and some throat mics were certainly over the top.

 

[Dennis in MA]

This is the most important part of this whole thread and it's something many don't do consistently. I posted previously about a discussion with Jim Wallace, who indicated that membership goes down when things are calm. Only when SHTF do people sign back up. That can't keep happening. We need to give these organizations the support so they can help ward off some of this before it happens.

Hell, all hell is breaking loose regarding over-taxation in MA and CLT membership is down. WTF,O???? People WANT to pay higher taxes????? Sometimes I think that people just don't understand.

 

[ADC]

I wont argue people not being there shouldn’t bitch about his sign, however it’s still in poor taste when we are already losing the narrative battle. Another point not touched on yet is the way everyone was dressed. I get it, 3pers are a “militia” group. However if we had more joe and jane everydays there with signs and flags it would help the cause. Leave the tactical clothing at home for when we train. Seeing everyone with comms, ear pieces, and some throat mics were certainly over the top.

My understanding of the sign is that the "Bill of Rights" is not something that should be trampled on.

I happen to agree.

Is there an interpretation I am missing?

 

[ADC]

Hell, all hell is breaking loose regarding over-taxation in MA and CLT membership is down. WTF,O???? People WANT to pay higher taxes????? Sometimes I think that people just don't understand.

I believe MA LTC numbers are up according the the NSSF from 405,000(2015 ?) to 421,000 +(2017)

This is a good trend. More people are educated about safe firearm ownership. Education is always helpful.

The challenge is and has been getting EVERYONE to work together in a visual way the State House can see and in a way they will respect the rights of the law abiding. Making new laws does nothing. Criminals don't obey laws and not all respect consequences.

 

[DarthRevan]

My understanding of the sign is that the "Bill of Rights" is not something that should be trampled on.

I happen to agree.

Is there an interpretation I am missing?

There’s a better way to deliver the message that doesn’t bring her sexual preferences into it.

 

[enbloc]

You vote for Adam Kraut for board of directors?

Yes.

 

[ADC]

I didn't get that inference, missed it. But yes, if that is true, it's not in good taste.

 

[enbloc]

I wont argue people not being there shouldn’t bitch about his sign, however it’s still in poor taste when we are already losing the narrative battle. Another point not touched on yet is the way everyone was dressed. I get it, 3pers are a “militia” group. However if we had more joe and jane everydays there with signs and flags it would help the cause. Leave the tactical clothing at home for when we train. Seeing everyone with comms, ear pieces, and some throat mics were certainly over the top.

Signs are free speech, but some speech is freer than others. There are some that would say your "Come and Take It" AR flag is over-the-top. I wouldn't.
Also, don't conflate a Statehouse Steps Rally with a "Hearing". When participating in a Public Safety or Firearm Law Hearing it is a good idea to dress-above-casual and to prepare something to say if given the opportunity. Statehouse Rallies are generally a circus and everyone dresses accordingly...and acts accordingly.

I personally like the Para-Mil look on many of the protestors. I think that it lets people know what will be coming next if they do not heed Our Call to Rights.
For too long I have sat, stood, marched and made nice with Beacon Hill. Those days are drawing closed. When people barely hear a SHOUT, why should we continue to whisper?

I will leave your photo here, and ask: "Does the Guy with the sign, stand out that much?"
"Or does the pitiful turn out, stand out more?"

~Matt

 

[DarthRevan]

Fair enough, @enbloc

 

[Toast]

I personally like the Para-Mil look on many of the protestors. I think that it lets people know what will be coming next if they do not heed Our Call to Rights.

In the face of a media block that's working overtime to make gun owners come across as "the other" to the bulk of the population, why would you think it's a good idea to help them make that case? In God's name, why would you believe that making non-gun-owners think that gun owners are ready for armed sedition is going to do anything other than make our legal situation in this state worse?

 

[enbloc]

In God's name, why would you believe that making non-gun-owners think that gun owners are ready for armed sedition is going to do anything other than make our legal situation in this state worse?

Past Experience. Our legal situation in this state has gotten worse even while wearing ties and being polite.
Prove me wrong.

 

[Rekonn]

Yes, our situation has gotten worse. But, the flaw in your logic is the assumption that the opposite of what has failed before will work. There are infinite ways to do something wrong, some with much worse consequences.

 

[enbloc]

Thank you.

 

[BigDaddy-Oh]

I think one of the problems that "WE" have to overcome are our own egos. To have a cohesive message in one voice a lot of compromise had to be made. A whole spectrum of our own wants and beliefs have to be either raised or brought down to meet somewhere where it can be put forth and excepted as a strong, but acceptable message. It has to be together or we will flounder in our own wave making. As for the "dress" for public appearances of the masses, stepping it up helps the image but diversity also sends a message of the cross section of society that supports 2A. Staying out of yelling matches, good language, speaking as one intelligent voice all help us project an image that we are not a bunch of "ne'er do wells", that we are actually law abiding citizens that happen to like shooting and hunting. And for the most part we are very compassionate, accepting and tolerant people. I think much more tolerant then our opposition.

We also have to make the opposition realize that the responsibility of being a gun owner and all that come with that, make us be even more law abiding so that we don't run the risk of losing that beloved license. I think it would also educate some of the opposition if they tried to purchase a firearm or get a license; to realize what you have to go through to follow the laws in this state. I bet a lot of them would fail. Maybe that is part of it . . . they screwed up their lives at an early age and now cannot legally be a gun owner. Who knows.

 

[Dennis in MA]

Agree with 99% of Dennis's post, but there's one thing that rallies/marches are good for. The democrats keep having anti rallies because it's a great voter registration tool for them. Now, imagine Jim speaking at a rally, and then having people taking email addresses and handing out brochures - could be a good way to grow GOAL membership. Same for Comm2A.

I think Pennsylvania does it right. They've been doing an ANNUAL rally since 2006. Think about the opportunity to improve on something year after year, instead of slapping together some crap last minute.

Pennsylvania Second Amendment Rally - Harrisburg, Pennsylvania

Now, I still think rallies have a minimal effect on politicians. But maybe there are a few that could go either way, that could be swayed by a big public presence. I think a well organized, bigger annual rally is more effective. Better for the politician to remember an earlier rally BEFORE voting, than to pass a sh!t sandwich, and have a fleeting thought about what the response will be later.

I can see that. How I think about is like this, tho. (Not saying you are wrong - I'd PREFER you to be right, actually)

1. Liberal riots, er, rallies attract a S-ton of hangers-on who decided today was gonna be the day they were gonna be outraged and YOUR cause was the current one. LBGT, Black, Inuit, Illegal, Martian. No problem. I'm here to protest! Ergo, you WILL get people that aren't with ANY cause and get them plugged in.

2. Conservative get-togethers (I'd like to think) are already-active 2A folks who are registered to vote, vote, and actively participate in Comm2A, NRA, GOA, GOAL and/or other organizations.

I'd like to think otherwise, but I'm not convinced.

Should we STOP rallies??? NO! Don't ever think I think that. Just don't, like the snowflake p-hat wearing, Trump-hating loonies, think that the rally is going to change the world. It rarely does. Just gathering people isn't the end-game, it's (like you said) the beginning.

 

[GeorgeMason]

Can we get a T-Shirt group buy going with the graphic from that guy's sign???? I'd be in.

 

[BigDaddy-Oh]

Gather, then activate. Get the masses motivated.

IMHO, speaking intelligently (sometimes a challenge for me), Being respectful, Being truthful, being tolerant will all work for us. All the aspects the haters are missing. The Tee Shirt thing is OK for personal consumption (pun intended) but not for a gathering (rally) in a public. Personally, I would not wear that with the mention of carpet . . . mine would reference "tongue and groove". But the munching of the "Amendments to the Constitution" fits to a TEE

 

[ADC]

Gather, then activate. Get the masses motivated.

IMHO, speaking intelligently (sometimes a challenge for me), Being respectful, Being truthful, being tolerant will all work for us. All the aspects the haters are missing. The Tee Shirt thing is OK for personal consumption (pun intended) but not for a gathering (rally) in a public. Personally, I would not wear that with the mention of carpet . . . mine would reference "tongue and groove". But the munching of the "Amendments to the Constitution" fits to a TEE

I am in agreement.