What would you do in this scenario?

[Sleepytime]

Dunno if someone already posted this one, but I would have hit him with the bike. I wouldn't have let him get close enough to me to grab me by the throat.

First, a friendly warning...
Then WHAMMO!!!!!

Yeah I know his friends were close (across the street, if I remember correctly). Whether or not they would have come at you is another story.

Depending on his reach you could have 'boxed' his ears. Then hit him in the junk. Also, no matter how big they are, a throat punch will drop them fast, but that one can be dangerous to do.
...and here I am Monday morning QB'ing.

 

[Spanz]

Yup, Florida laws.



When you apply for a Florida non-res. LTC, you get a packet that includes a printed version of those FAQ's and law descriptions.


http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/self_defense.html

Wow. What a clearly written explanation of the law! The Florida state government wrote that? What a difference between state governments--FL vs MA!!!

 

[Mass-diver]

We obviously have differing views and experiences of just how potentially lethal an assailant (or assailants) can be with nothing more than some well placed hands/feet and the element of surprise...

It's not that, I just think we have different views about the law.

Aside from the fact that I was a trauma nurse at BMC from 5 years, and that I posted how I saw a kid die at Trinity College in the late 90s from a single punch, I've also had my ass handed to me a number of times. I have no doubt that someone with bad intentions and some luck can easily kill a person with punches, chokes, etc.

However, this just doesn't count as a deadly threat in most situations.

If I get into an argument with a guy at the gas station tomorrow and he punches me in the face, he could kill me from that one blow or from a follow up attack. But, there's no way that I could shoot the guy and expect my use of deadly force to be considered legal.

 

[cekim]

It's not that, I just think we have different views about the law.

Not really, I can't/won't/didn't argue with how you have suggested "the law" would view these situations... I have no illusions of how that process works - I've seen it working (thanks to lawyers and cops in the family).

My point was that the jurors applying the law have a flawed and generally naive (TV based) understanding of these situations and as such their application of "reasonableness" standards is flawed by a romantic revisionist view of such confrontations that I suspect would change radically had they ever been in a similar situation...

They are going to hold you to a higher standard than they would hold themselves if they ever found themselves in the same situation.

As for your gas station, I will say conditions required to justify it are indeed rather unlikely and would have to involve other factors beyond "punching"...

 

[cekim]

No, really, not trying to start a fight, but....

Hot off the presses...
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=804850#post804850

"Paradiso then jumped up, ran behind Judge Cinda Fox and began punching her, said Karen McConnell, spokeswoman for the San Joaquin County courthouse.

Deputies fired three shots at Paradiso, who was killed, she said"

Looks like fists can be pretty gray sometimes...

 

[ItalianBostonian]

Well I thank everyone for their thoughtful responses. Definitely a lot to think about here.

The reason I came to my conclusion that I would probably pull my gun is because when he grabbed me by my neck he grabbed it real hard with 2 hands, he was also a lot bigger than me and for probably about 5 seconds I couldn’t even breathe. I did try to push him off me during this time and he just chocked me harder. I also didn’t know what the other 2 kids were going to do. So at this point I was in fear of my life, these kids were real punk, hood type kids, and often resorted to violence (stabbing, shooting someone) and I know what they were capable of. I grew up in a not so good part of Boston. So at this point since I couldn’t get him off of me, I just gave up the bike. Like I said if this happened today and I was armed and in the same situation, I would still have to go with what I said in my OP. You weren’t there and don't know how I felt being chocked, if it were you and you couldn’t get away I think many of you would have done the same.

 

[01SVTvert]

I would have been in fear of my life if my guard had somehow been dropped and he'd gotten his hand on my neck and I'd have no other choice than to drive his nose into his cranial cavity with the palm of my hand.

Which, while a damn good idea, is a myth. The nasal bridge and septum will break and possibly shatter, but the old wive's tale of "You can kill someone by palm heeling their nose up into their brain" is total bunk.

Don't get me wrong, I'm 100% for disabling and/or seriously injuring an attacker in this situation, but there's better ways to do it. The appropriate response would be dictated by the incident specifics.

Because of my work I have actually seen this scenario play out once. The agressor grabbed behind the head of the victim and kneed him in the face. His nasal bridge ended up piercing the covering around his brain, leaking cerebro-spinal fluid out of the victims mouth and nose. He was seizing when I arrived and we didnt realize what happened. Originally we thought that it was blood (and some was) but when he got to the hospital they informed us of what his injuries actually were. Total freak occurrence for that type of attack. Usually noses break and blood is everywhere.
Out of maybe 100+ broken noses I have seen in the last 20 years this was the only one that came close to the fabled "nose into his brain" scenario. I would not rely on a palm strike to a guys nose to incapacitate him.

PS Victim was discharged from the hospital 5 days later no worse for wear long term. Considering we thought he was going to die, he did ok.

 

[BostonFJ40]

I feel ill after reading your post. Way too much detail.

 

[911_Ted]

Massachusetts Jurys

You would be the juror I fear most...

THAT is kind of what I was trying to get at in my post. You are going to have to defend yourself infront of a MASSACHUSETTS jury, infront of a MASSACHUSETTS judge. The deck is stacked against you to begin with. The MASSACHUSETTS jurors unfortunately were NOT there during the assault to witness the terror in the victims eyes and the hate/rage in the suspect's (now deceased) eyes. So the jury will be given a dog and pony show by a MASSACHUSETTS prosecutor, and charged by a MASSACHUSETTS judge with the letter of the law, and left to make a decision based on what is presented to them. You KNOW the headline in the local paper would be "TRIAL BEGINS TODAY FOR MAN WHO GUNNED DOWN UNARMED MAN OVER BICYCLE".

And yup, I'll say it.... Welcome to Massachusetts!

 

[GSG]

Wow. What a clearly written explanation of the law! The Florida state government wrote that? What a difference between state governments--FL vs MA!!!

Yeah, read up on the 790 statutes, the laws are all well worded, and it says specifically that they're meant to be liberally interpreted in favor of the citizen.

Imagine that.

Well I thank everyone for their thoughtful responses. Definitely a lot to think about here.

The reason I came to my conclusion that I would probably pull my gun is because when he grabbed me by my neck he grabbed it real hard with 2 hands, he was also a lot bigger than me and for probably about 5 seconds I couldn’t even breathe. I did try to push him off me during this time and he just chocked me harder. I also didn’t know what the other 2 kids were going to do. So at this point I was in fear of my life, these kids were real punk, hood type kids, and often resorted to violence (stabbing, shooting someone) and I know what they were capable of. I grew up in a not so good part of Boston. So at this point since I couldn’t get him off of me, I just gave up the bike. Like I said if this happened today and I was armed and in the same situation, I would still have to go with what I said in my OP. You weren’t there and don't know how I felt being chocked, if it were you and you couldn’t get away I think many of you would have done the same.

This description is much different than how it was described in your original post.

While I was walking my bike up my street, I hear one of the teenagers calling me to come over to him, I looked back and just kept walking my bike up to my house. One of the black teenagers ran up to me when the other 2 were across the street, he said, "come here, I have something to ask you" he then came right up to me grabed me by my neck and said, "give me your bike or you going to get hurt." Now I gave up the bike because I wasnt in the position to fight with this kid, he was older and bigger than me. He took the bike and ran off with his friends.

Second description, I may have drawn. First description, I stand behind my earlier posts.

 

[ItalianBostonian]

I did leave out a little detail in my 1st post. Sry about that.

 

[Beansie_Time]

Why didn't you stay on your bike and ride away? 1 guy on a bike is generally faster than 3 guys on foot.

Also the fact that they were black has no bearing on the story. Punkass bitches are punkass bitches regardless of race.

 

[Godrick]

Get it - read it!

I have not read that book.

Get a copy and read it!

 

[cekim]

Second description, I may have drawn. First description, I stand behind my earlier posts.

Uh huh... Good thing it was so cut and dried/black and white

My bias of having experienced something similar led me to presume the "missing" details of the first post to potentially be like the 2nd...

 

[GSG]

Uh huh... Good thing it was so cut and dried black and white

OK, I'll be honest. I shoot anyone who gets within Tueller Drill distance of me, for any reason whatsoever.

 

[Bob P]

I have not read that book.

Read it. Well worth the time

 

[wingnut]

[...]
If a bunch of japanese school girls did the same thing ...
[...]

Wow - I used to think about that a great deal myself...

/wingnut
//offended at myself for thinking it

 

[ItalianBostonian]

I will read it, I am going to order it off of Amazon soon.

I didnt ride away because I couldnt ride up the very steep hill, and I couldnt ride down it because the perp was blocking my way.