What would you do in this scenario?

[BostonFJ40]

On this, I agree with you 100%.


BostonFJ40: did that guy that Joe choked die?

No, so I guess a choke that it released right when you pass out isn't "deadly".

I follow the UFC very closely and I remember a fighter, Babalu Sobral, getting kicked out of the league for not releasing a choke when the other fighter tapped.

I'd rather be dead than have a brain injury from lack of oxygen.

 

[Brian48]

Back in the day when I was younger and lived in Boston, way before I could get my LTC I was riding my bike home. When I was approaching my house I rode past 3 teenagers, all black. I kept going and took a left up my street, which was a steep hill, so I got off my bike and began to walk it up.

While I was walking my bike up my street, I hear one of the teenagers calling me to come over to him, I looked back and just kept walking my bike up to my house. One of the black teenagers ran up to me when the other 2 were across the street, he said, "come here, I have something to ask you" he then came right up to me grabed me by my neck and said, "give me your bike or you going to get hurt." Now I gave up the bike because I wasnt in the position to fight with this kid, he was older and bigger than me. He took the bike and ran off with his friends.

Now I was thinking today about this, if it had happened now when I have my LTC and I had my gun on me. I would have probably pulled my gun and drawn on him, if he didnt leave and approached me again I would have shot him.

What would you have done?

By the way, I did get the bike back about a week later thanks to a friend who was working for the city and were cleaning up some streets. He spotted the bike in this kids yard and called me and we called the cops. The cops never did anything to the kid though.

The moment he laid his hands on me and made the threat, I would have shoved him away. At that point, I would claim fear for my life and drawn my gun on him. At the minimum, he is guilty of assault with intent to harm.

 

[cekim]

BostonFJ40: did that guy that Joe choked die?

He would and would be defenseless against Joe Rogen holding the choke long enough...

Just remember to ask the bad guy as you are blacking out if he intends to kill you or just knock you out

 

[Lamina]

(Sorry I can't leave well enough alone) but I don't find much in your post to disagree with.

lol. no big deal... like I said, we all learn when we discuss. leaving it alone only allows one side (at best) to learn.

usually these types of web debates can find a common ground when they are explained out far enough. too often, people just don't want to take the time to do that.

 

[Mass-diver]

No, so I guess a choke that it released right when you pass out isn't "deadly".

I follow the UFC very closely and I remember a fighter, Babalu Sobral, getting kicked out of the league for not releasing a choke when the other fighter tapped.

I'd rather be dead than have a brain injury from lack of oxygen.

I'm a big MMA fan as well. So, I will concede the point to some degree, by saying that: if someone gets you in (or tries to put you in) a rear naked choke, you should shoot them. A hand on the neck that doesn't leave a mark doesn't seem like a good sell for an attempted deadly choke in my book. In that video, the guy lets Joe apply the choke. It's a lot harder for someone with no formal training to catch someone who is fighting in a choke that fast.

My Freshman year at Trinity I saw a kid get punched one in the face. He fell backwards onto a brick walkway. The EMTs where there fast, but the kid died. You can certainly kill someone with your fists, but unless the person has special training, fists alone don't count as a deadly threat.

I wish the laws were different, but if someone threatens you (and they don't have a weapon) and you pull your pistol, 9 out 10 times you are in the wrong. I'm not going to jail or losing my LTC just to put some a**h*** in their place. The pistol is a last resort, not a first.

 

[BostonFJ40]

I'm a big MMA fan as well.

Are you going to the WCF fights in Wilmington on March 14th?

 

[Fooped]

Are you going to the WCF fights in Wilmington on March 14th?

A few of the fighters from my school are fighting in that event that night.

 

[SA John]

No, you steal sisters.

When we can catch 'em.

 

[SA John]

I would have ran home and told my parents.

But not sure what them being black has anything to do with it.

If a bunch of japanese school girls did the same thing I would have pissed myself, cried and called mommy.

It's just a bicycle.

I married a Japanese school girl. Running away from one is not a bad option. She still sleeps at night with a big friggin' sword next to her side of the bed her father gave her at our wedding.

 

[Mike-Mike]

I married a Japanese school girl. Running away from one is not a bad option. She still sleeps at night with a big friggin' sword next to her side of the bed her father gave her at our wedding.

Sooooooooooooo um well ah...... about that... ah.. not so much.

 

[wolf223]

bad guy:

gimmie your bike!

me:

Yeah, I'm so bad, I kick my own ass twice a day... shit, you ain't sayin' nothin'!

-Dolemite

You rat soup-eatin' motha-F****!

i don't know why this topic made me think of Dolemite...

 

[KMS]

I had a similar experience growing up.I was about 11 and this kid was about 14-15.He and his toadies use to hang out at the general store and harrass all the little kids..the Scott Farkus of my town so to speak.

I went inside to get a gallon of milk for my mother and when I came out of the store the tard was on my bike.I asked him to give it back.But he kept buzzing me with the 2 wheel fly by asking me what am I gonna do about it.

Well,by then I was getting upset and as he came at me for another fly by on my bike...I hit him in the arm with the gallon of milk which bounced off his arm and up into his face...knocking him off my bicycle and onto his back.I just grabbed my bike and hauled ass outta there..he must of chased me for what seemed like a mile he was so angry...never really bothered me again..just called me names.

 

[BostonFJ40]

Wrong thread.

 

[SteelShooter]

I think any confrontation is life threatening, I could have a heart attack while trying to fight back, my space is my space, I'll deal with the consequences. I don't get myself in situations where an altercation is likely, so if one arises it is intentional from an attacker. I will walk away, and I will let someone know when I think they are becoming a threat. I cannot pretend to be a mind reader, nor do I feel I can safely "take a beating" from some thug. You want my wallet, here you go, my watch, here it is it keeps great time, my car, remember it only likes super, you touch me, you and I will both suffer the consequences. How can anyone assume they will survive a mugging whether the mugger is armed or unarmed, I'm baffled.

 

[GSG]

I'm baffled wondering why so many people are willing to shoot someone over an unarmed bicycle theft.

 

[SteelShooter]

I'm baffled wondering why so many people are willing to shoot someone over an unarmed bicycle theft.

I think this has morphed into more than a bike grab.

 

[wolf223]

I'm baffled wondering why so many people are willing to shoot someone over an unarmed bicycle theft.

this evolved into a shoot thread.

it was originally about getting punked!


hence, it's NES

 

[GSG]

Some kid gets his bike stolen, and I'm reading about "disparity of force" and how "you never know what else they might've done."

 

[wolf223]

Some kid gets his bike stolen, and I'm reading about "disparity of force" and how "you never know what else they might've done."

this is NES

 

[theGringo]

So much navel gazing. Bernie Goetz knew what he had to do. Either do that and live with the consequences, or STFU and hand over your stuff, and live with the consequences.

 

[GSG]

this is NES

I think it's just an Internet thing.

People get their LTC, carry a gun once a week, and carrying it still feels like an adventure.

"Batman's got nothing on me, I've got an LTC, mofo's!"

Tired of boring dinners on Friday nights with the wife? Bring a gun! Then you can spend the night imagining that the KGB is after your microfilm, or all those Die Hard scenarios.

Carry your gun, and talk like a tough guy. "Yeah man, some bangers rolled up on me in their lowrider, but I was so situationally aware they didn't have a chance. All I had to do was stare them down, bullies get scared when you stand up to them."

All the sudden every situation is fraught with danger. Someone throwing a shoe at your car (http://northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=38194) becomes a murder attempt, clearly you'd be justified in going to slide lock on their sorry a**.

I don't carry a gun because it makes me glow with pride,or to prove I'm a decent person because I've passed all those government background checks, or because it makes me more sexually attractive to women, or because I need to correct every social misdeed through death.

Either other people watch too much TV, or I don't watch enough.

 

[cekim]

Tired of boring dinners on Friday nights with the wife? Bring a gun! Then you can spend the night imagining that the KGB is after your microfilm, or all those Die Hard scenarios.

Don't forget drawing on the mirror get your "look" correct... You wouldn't want to get caught in a gunfight without your bond face

Either other people watch too much TV, or I don't watch enough.

Definitely too much...

 

[kurtb]

To the OP, using just the original scenerio you offered up, I see no justification for the use/application of deadly force. You have not articulated any fear for your LIFE or any reasonable expectation that your LIFE was in danger. Elevated alert level? SURE! Ready to act? SURE! But drawing your weapon and/or using it under the scenerio you offer... here in Massachusetts (or really anywhere else)? No way.

Right you are - BUT - this MA BS just makes me sad. The fact that I need to stop and assess my situation from a legal perspective before I can act means that I cannot possibly save myself. The fact of the matter is - is that here in MA everything is subjective. That is, nobody is comitting a crime plain and simple. The crime needs to be analyzed over and over again in order to figure out a way to cast blame and turn the perps into the victims. The whole liberal BS standpoint that eveyone is created equal and people are not really bad and they are just products of the enviroment that I helped create, yadda, yadda. yadda. It all boils down to the fact that in MA I can NEVER be assured that I am in the "right" even if some crazy crackhead is trying to rape one of my kids. I must sit on my ass and try to figure out all of the possible scenarios that will be used against me to show why I should not have defended myself child or myself - or just cross my fingers and hope that every thing turns out rainbows and spinkles just like the libs say it will.

When I and my family is dead at the hands of a criminal, only then will people say - "gee, he had a gun .... why didnt he do something to defend himself?" But that subjective, after the fact analysis wont help me then will it. When will we be able to stand up and say that there is wrong and there is right - as simple as that.

 

[theGringo]

Don't forget drawing on the mirror get your "look" correct... You wouldn't want to get caught in a gunfight without your bond face

Are you lookin' at ME?

 

[SteelShooter]

I don't carry a gun because it makes me glow with pride,or to prove I'm a decent person because I've passed all those government background checks, or because it makes me more sexually attractive to women, or because I need to correct every social misdeed through death.

So why do you carry a gun?

 

[GSG]

So why do you carry a gun?

Strictly as a means to get involuntary price discounts when I go to the mechanic.

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/self_defense.html

Q. What if I point my handgun at someone but don't use it?

A. Never display a handgun to gain "leverage" in an argument. Threatening someone verbally while possessing a handgun, even licensed, will land you in jail for three years. Even if the gun is broken or you don't have bullets, you will receive the mandatory three-year sentence if convicted. The law does not allow any possibility of getting out of jail early.

Example: In a 1987 case, a woman refused to pay an automobile mechanic who she thought did a poor job repairing her car. They argued about it, and the mechanic removed the radiator hose from the car so she couldn't drive it away. She reached into her purse, pulled out an unloaded gun, and threatened to kill the mechanic if he touched her car again. The mechanic grabbed the gun and called the police.

The woman was convicted of aggravated assault with a firearm and sentenced to serve a mandatory three-year prison term. The fact that the gun was not loaded was irrelevant. Even though she was the mother of three dependent children and had no prior criminal record, the statute does not allow for parole. Her only recourse was to seek clemency from the Governor.

 

[Mass-diver]

Strictly as a means to get involuntary price discounts when I go to the mechanic.

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/self_defense.html

Florida laws?

 

[GSG]

Florida laws?

Yup, Florida laws.

After reading a bunch of the other posts in this thread, I figured it would be funny to post another instance of someone pulling a gun when they shouldn't, and (tongue in cheek) implying that I feel the same way.

When you apply for a Florida non-res. LTC, you get a packet that includes a printed version of those FAQ's and law descriptions.

Maybe I should've posted the other one from that page, that would be a better example of an unjustified use of a gun in self defense, similar to the bike theft example:

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/self_defense.html

Example of the kind of attack that will not justify defending yourself with deadly force: Two neighbors got into a fight, and one of them tried to hit the other by swinging a garden hose. The neighbor who was being attacked with the hose shot the other in the chest. The court upheld his conviction for aggravated battery with a firearm, because an attack with a garden hose is not the kind of violent assault that justifies responding with deadly force.

In the future I'll try to make it more obvious when I'm referring to laws from another state.

 

[Mass-diver]

Yup, Florida laws.

In the future I'll try to make it more obvious when I'm referring to laws from another state.

No problem at all, I just thought that down in FL you could shoot someone for looking at your cross-eyed

 

[cekim]

No problem at all, I just thought that down in FL you could shoot someone for looking at your cross-eyed

Never ever look at someone's "cross-eyed" in FL Ignore the hump and the extra arm too and walk quietly and quickly toward a major city as fast as you can (except Miami - run away from there too)..

I want to be clear that if the question is whether an unarmed bike theft justifies a shooting, my clear answer is "no, not even close" and I was born in FL and lived there for almost 20 years...

For the purposes of the discussion in this thread, the bike theft was unimportant - the issue for me is the nature of the physical assault and assaults like it... (i.e. physical contact, outnumbered).

We obviously have differing views and experiences of just how potentially lethal an assailant (or assailants) can be with nothing more than some well placed hands/feet and the element of surprise...