what would you do in this case

[Zim]

A number of years go, i was coming out of a department store and was confronted by their security. They thought that I had pocketed something and were very adamant to see inside my pockets. in that case, i just pulled out my pockets and moved on.
what if I was carrying something?
just pull it out and say.. hey look, this is not from your store..

The way I see it, at a minimum it would be long hassle of not giving in, waiting for a cop, etc, etc.

 

[StevieP]

When they asked me to empty my pockets I would state that I was licensed to carry concealed, and please don't be alarmed but that I was lawfully carrying a loaded firearm. Tell them you're going to show it to them (without reaching for it first) and then proceed accordingly. Perhaps un-holster it & put it on a table, then show them you've not stolen anything. Put gun back in the holster & go on your way.

That's the way it *should* go. YMMV.

 

[koydog]

They have no right to make you empty your pokects. If they,without your consent forced you to stay in the store untill the arrival of the police they are unlawfully detaining you. Since they need your permission for a search and have no police power i.e.probible cause , I allways tell them to piss off and continue on my way.

 

[mike01824]

When they asked me to empty my pockets I would state that I was licensed to carry concealed, and please don't be alarmed but that I was lawfully carrying a loaded firearm. Tell them you're going to show it to them (without reaching for it first) and then proceed accordingly. Perhaps un-holster it & put it on a table, then show them you've not stolen anything. Put gun back in the holster & go on your way.

That's the way it *should* go. YMMV.

They aren't LEOs so why treat them like they are? If a cop asks you to empty your pockets then I agree, but a rent-a-cop doesn't need to know and you have no need to comply with his requests. I'd tell them No and move on. If an officer does show up, I'd make sure to press charges/file complaints as appropriate. A bad stop will most likely get the guy fired.

 

[RB101]

I'm assuming you know this, but I guarantee you that scenario is against store policy. There are retailer detainment laws on the books, which, if followed correctly will usually absolve the store from most liabilities. They have to follow formal steps, several of them, in order to detain and 'accuse' you. Usually you are escorted back to an office of some sort, not just asked to empty your pockets at the front of the store. Sounds like a hothead not following P&P and had a hunch he saw you do something.
I would have told him to go screw and that's pretty close to a harassment/wrongful detainment case right there IMO. Especially if I was carrying. Tell them to call the cops and wait...If you really want to see them sweat.

 

[Dexion1619]

They have no right to make you empty your pokects. If they,without your consent forced you to stay in the store untill the arrival of the police they are unlawfully detaining you. Since they need your permission for a search and have no police power i.e.probible cause , I allways tell them to piss off and continue on my way.

I informed the security at walmart in hadley of this once, they didn't believe me. The only reason I knew that this was the case was because I was good friends with the Loss Prevention people at the store I worked at.

It was snowing, and I was wandering around the store while waiting for a bus (car was busted). I had a backpack on (work cloths), and after leaving sporting goods was on my way out of the store. One of there goons stoped me (by grabbing my arm) and tried to get me to open my backpack.

Long story short, I told them to pound sand, they called the police and I had a talk with the store manager and police officer (who came out to talk to me at the bus stop). Officer sided with me (never even asked to look in the bag, he was a standup officer)

I got a gift card and a ride home by the officer (I missed my bus). I made it a point to go into that walmart, with my backpack on, every day for the rest of the winter. Hell, maybe ill do it again this week for old times sake! j/k

 

[GunGrey]

I would just continue putting one foot in front of the other

 

[dingbat]

I'd just politely tell them they were mistaken and then continue on my way.

 

[jobowker]

I would politely explain that I did not pocket anything, but I do have a lawful concealed weapons permit and wouldn't want to cause a scene by emptying my pockets. Would you like to see my permit? I would't be admitting to concealing anything, or offering to brandish it - only spoke about a permit.
Pretty sure at that point they would either be scared of you and no longer worrying about the merchandise, or would realize that you most likely didn't take anything. Either way, the conversation is over at that point.

 

[el duderino]

They have no right to make you empty your pokects. If they,without your consent forced you to stay in the store untill the arrival of the police they are unlawfully detaining you. Since they need your permission for a search and have no police power i.e.probible cause , I allways tell them to piss off and continue on my way.

This, tell them to pound sand and continue on your way.

 

[whatluck]

I would leave, and if they touch me I would give them a QUICK boxing lesson.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I would politely explain that I did not pocket anything, but I do have a lawful concealed weapons permit and wouldn't want to cause a scene by emptying my pockets. Would you like to see my permit? I would't be admitting to concealing anything, or offering to brandish it - only spoke about a permit.
Pretty sure at that point they would either be scared of you and no longer worrying about the merchandise, or would realize that you most likely didn't take anything. Either way, the conversation is over at that point.

A problem with this is that you are accepting the authority of a private citizen, with NO police powers, to detain and search you.

My suggestion is always remain very polite, but say something like "I do not consent to a search, and I do not agree to remain here on a voluntary basis. If you are taking me prisoner, I will not physically resist, but I will call the police from my phone to report this episode of unlawful imprisonment. Am I free to go or am I being involuntarily detained?". This will force the person accosting you to think about their actions and consequences, and will be something totally unexpected. Expect confusion, and if security responds with anything other than a direct answer just keep asking "Am I your prisoner or am I free to go?".

The standards to actually search someone and be protected by the so-called "merchants privilege" generally requires that the store see someone conceal merchandise, and maintain an uninterrupted view of the person until they have left the store. (Although in some jurisdictions, intentional concealment alone is a criminal offense). "Suspicions" do not create a legal justification for a fishing expedition. In the old days, a friend worked security under the dome at Shoppers World, and only once made a bad grab - followed by immediate implementation of "Plan B" - a gift certificate and a profuse apology to the patron.

 

[George D]

A problem with this is that you are accepting the authority of a private citizen, with NO police powers, to detain and search you.

My suggestion is always remain very polite, but say something like "I do not consent to a search, and I do not agree to remain here on a voluntary basis. If you are taking me prisoner, I will not physically resist, but I will call the police from my phone to report this episode of unlawful imprisonment. Am I free to go or am I being involuntarily detained?". This will force the person accosting you to think about their actions and consequences, and will be something totally unexpected. Expect confusion, and if security responds with anything other than a direct answer just keep asking "Am I your prisoner or am I free to go?".

Seriously folks, concealed means concealed. Why offer that info up to a non-LEO when it can easily be twisted against you?

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Seriously folks, concealed means concealed. Why offer that info up to a non-LEO when it can easily be twisted against you?

Exactly. Disclose it and you change a routine "suspected shoplifter" nuisance call into "man with a gun". Moonbats get easily confused and while you may be saying "I am legally carrying a concealed weapon" they may hear only "I have a gun". If the message gets lost in the translation, guess who loses

 

[Rancho]

I'd just cut to the chase and whip out my gun wave it around and go BOOGAAHH BOOOGAAAH BOOOGAAAHHH!!! and while they hide I just walk calmly away.. j/k I'd probably tell them to pound sand ...

 

[RichM]

Why haven't there been any reports of problems with Costco, BJ's, or Wal-Mart about their demands to see receipts? I'll admit to falling in line with the rest of the sheep at either Costco or BJ's and hold my receipt in my hand while waiting for permission to leave... but I typically walk past the Wal-Mart receipt-checker without making eye contact... and they don't stop everyone...

Is it time to start raising a stink when asked to display your receipt in order to earn permission to leave the store?

... Not that the receipt checkers can be at all effective at preventing shoplifting! Seriously, I've got 75 items on my receipt... can he tell if I've got 79 in my cart?

 

[drgrant]

Why haven't there been any reports of problems with Costco, BJ's, or Wal-Mart about their demands to see receipts? I'll admit to falling in line with the rest of the sheep at either Costco or BJ's and hold my receipt in my hand while waiting for permission to leave... but I typically walk past the Wal-Mart receipt-checker without making eye contact... and they don't stop everyone...

At least in the case with BJs/Costco/etc (the "Clubs") they could just make that exit interrogation part of their terms of membership, and if you didn't like it, they could revoke your membership.

With Wal Mart, Worst Buy, etc.... who knows what rights they have in terms of shaking down consumers.

... Not that the receipt checkers can be at all effective at preventing shoplifting! Seriously, I've got 75 items on my receipt... can he tell if I've got 79 in my cart?

One time some dumbass cashier at BJs forgot to ring in a box of trash bags or something else I had bought and the door troll caught the error on the way out and I had to go back, wait in line so they could scan it so I could pay for it. So at least with small quantities of items, it appears some of them do pay attention.

This also leads me to believe the shakedowns are as much as a hedge against dumb personnel as they are against shoplifters.

-Mike

 

[taggart]

... Not that the receipt checkers can be at all effective at preventing shoplifting! Seriously, I've got 75 items on my receipt... can he tell if I've got 79 in my cart?

They probably can't tell, and I'm sure some people do shoplift. The point is that some potential shoplifters will be deterred out of fear of getting caught. BTW, I'm not supporting the practice.

 

[eric_07]

at places like Costco it's in their membership agreement. I asked a guy about it one time while he was checking the receipt and he said because they don't bag anything you could just walk in and walk out carrying a box of whatever. they want to make sure you didn't put some extra stuff on your cart. I hate it too but it's part of the terms. now that I had the guy explain it to me I don't care as much either.

At places like Best Buy though when they ask to check the bag I just tell them no thanks and keep walking. haven't had a problem yet. If I set off the alarm for some reason I'll let them look in the bag from their store but never my own bag(s).

 

[Nana the Great]

Nothing good can come from allowing a search or declaring you have a gun.

You already likely have a security person in a heightened state due to their suspicions. They may or may not be listening well or processing what they hear well.

Declaring a concealed weapon just amps up the likely reaction/over-reaction.

I like the approach of forcing them to declare whether or not, they're taking you into custody or if you're free to go, in order to force them to reflect on consequences.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

... Not that the receipt checkers can be at all effective at preventing shoplifting!

It's not just shoplifting - the big issue is internal employee theft.

A huge motivation for the receipt check to is reduce the chances that a patron a clerk are working together, and the clerk will "forget" to ring up a high dollar item. If you go to Honeybaked Ham during the holidays, you will see a similar system where the employees collecting the $$ and giving the change are different from those running the cash register (and even have A and B buttons on their shirts to identify which they are allowed to so). Forcing each transaction to go through two different employees, who no doubt do not get to choose their checkout partner on a given day, makes it much harder to run internal theft scams.

I like the approach of forcing them to declare whether or not, they're taking you into custody or if you're free to go, in order to force them to reflect on consequences.

Worse - it is forcing them to think

If I set off the alarm for some reason I'll let them look in the bag from their store but never my own bag(s).

Your choice, but remember - once the purchase is complete the bag from their store is "your own bag" as title has transferred, and it is no longer merchandise, but personal property.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I'm a regular at one particular Costco's and have gotten to know many of their staff. They also do not hire from the bottom of the barrel and pay/treat their employees very well so that folks stay there for a very long time. They aren't union and all employees are expected to do almost every job, so the checkers work an hour or two at a door and then can be found working in another area for a few hours, etc. They aren't LP folks but everyone seems to take their job seriously (but pleasantly).

I've had one door checker catch that I was charged for 2 boxes of oranges when I had only one (the scanner caught the UPC code twice accidentally), so I had to go back to Customer Service to get credit for the 2nd one. I think that they may have caught one other mistake over the years.

They are pleasant enough and thus I don't mind them. ChinaMart and WorstBuy (I really like that one) are a totally different animal however.

 

[Martlet]

That happened to me several years ago around Christmas at the mall. I told them no and kept walking.

 

[ARV]

Theres an entire website dedicated to this issue. I cant find it, but I'll keep looking. I remember one story where there was a report of someone losing their child, and the guy at the door tried to take the woman's stroller, kid and all, away from her.

ETA Think this is the site: http://consumerist.com/cgi-bin/mt/mt-search.cgi?blog_id=1&tag=receipt checkers&limit=20

 

[Bob-Sig226]

at places like Costco it's in their membership agreement. I asked a guy about it one time while he was checking the receipt and he said because they don't bag anything you could just walk in and walk out carrying a box of whatever. they want to make sure you didn't put some extra stuff on your cart. I hate it too but it's part of the terms. now that I had the guy explain it to me I don't care as much either.

At places like Best Buy though when they ask to check the bag I just tell them no thanks and keep walking. haven't had a problem yet. If I set off the alarm for some reason I'll let them look in the bag from their store but never my own bag(s).

If that stupid alarm goes off I don't even hesitate and keep walking. That's their problem not mine. If they want to walk with me and carry my bags to my car, I'm all for the help, but don't expect me to stop while they scrub my purchases over a demagnetizer.

 

[atmay]

If that stupid alarm goes off I don't even hesitate and keep walking. That's their problem not mine. If they want to walk with me and carry my bags to my car, I'm all for the help, but don't expect me to stop while they scrub my purchases over a demagnetizer.

We don't chase anyone down, but anyone who comes back in gets their bag walked through the alarm thing by an associate. If it goes off, we say thank you come again, and if it doesn't, yet it goes off when they go through, we give them a dirty look because that's all we can really do.

That or I make a habit of directly asking if they stole anything "Hey! You didn't steal anything, did you?" Usually elicits a chuckle.


When I shop at WallyWorld, I chuck the receipt before I even encounter the greeter. If they ask, I say nope, sorry, don't have one.

 

[ARV]

We don't chase anyone down, but anyone who comes back in gets their bag walked through the alarm thing by an associate. If it goes off, we say thank you come again, and if it doesn't, yet it goes off when they go through, we give them a dirty look because that's all we can really do.

when I worked at home depot, there was a guy that came in once a week or so. set the alarm off EVERY time for about 2 months. We would double check his stuff (walk the bag through ourselves) because it happened every time, and he was concerned about it. Guess it happened other places too. Turns out, he had new shoes. Yup, his shoes. We asked are you wearing anything new? The right shoe had one of the tags embedded in it. Took the portable scanner and deactivated it for him

 

[jasons]

I would invite them to participate in carnal relations with the closest anas platyrhynchos.

 

[jasons]

If it was a Costco in Nevada, I'd kiss my ass goodbye.

What ever happened with that? (I assume a whole lot of nothing.)

 

[Bill Nance]

Under our state law they have the right to detain you if you are suspected of shoplifting. They do NOT have a right to force you into a back room. (And they don't ANYWHERE).

I've never been stopped for something like that but if I was It would really depend on how they approached it. If they were polite, I'd probably show them what I had in my pockets. Honest mistakes happen and they're trying to do an important job (stop thieves).

If they got aggressive in any way I'd tell them to call the cops immediately and I'll wait. But if they put their hands on me I will consider it a kidnapping and use appropriate force to defend myself. I would also be VERY loud so as to alert other shoppers to watch.

Under no circumstances whatever would I allow myself to be taken from full public view. That makes it too easy to plant something on you and it's happened before.